Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

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Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

Hi,

I just thought I would say “hi.”

Just joined the Imp Club and purchased (that car) which was being sold at an auction in Guildford (I did not pay the auction estimate).

My car (obviously) isn’t in her original colour (Code 137 Firebrand Red) and at the minute I would describe the paint quality as “sprayed on Hammerite finish.” Oh, and the doors are a slightly different shade.

The reason for purchase is due to my late Father’s first car (he passed his test quite late) being a Singer Chamois (POL 587G) and I have many fond memories of travelling in it as a child. That car was repainted red but I do not know what the original colour was as when it first arrived I recall it looked like a grey primer colour (and had a white bonnet).

Plans for my Imp, apart from it being a permanent member of the family, is to have the paintwork corrected or repainted. I will keep the colour as I like it. Then I just intend to look after her and take her to shows.

Like some Imps I have looked at, her seats are not original (from a Ford Fiesta) and the wheels are “Minilites?” Other than this she is quite standard, engine is original but now has an electric fan that can be switched from the cabin and an alternator upgrade. She also had front discs fitted.

Body wise, ignoring the paint finish, she has had quite a lot of metal (including front inner and outer wings) new floors and seems to be very solid.

Anyway, she will make an appearance occasionally on my hobby YouTube channel soon with the other cars I have.

Any things as a newbie I should look out for I would be grateful to hear.

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by Uncle Henry »

Hello Paul,

Welcome to the Imp world. Sorry nobody has done so sooner, its not the usual way ! Many left the Forum for the various Facebook groups and you might do well to ask for assistance on those, if its urgent. You'll be more likely to get an instant response. HOWEVER, I need to add that those that do post here are die-hards and are very very knowledgeable. Dave Lane, Mike Dent, Peter Nunney to name but 3. Plus the Imp Club Spares co-ordinator R.J.Allen is one of the first ports of call for parts, if you're a member. Malcolm Anderson and brother Graham for spares too, old and new. There are engine specialists, transaxle wizzards, and body repair experts to hand as well. You will soon learn where to get help, but don't be afraid to ask.

Andy G (Uncle Henry).
Stans best mate.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

Uncle Henry wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:37 am Hello Paul,

Welcome to the Imp world. Sorry nobody has done so sooner, its not the usual way ! Many left the Forum for the various Facebook groups and you might do well to ask for assistance on those, if its urgent. You'll be more likely to get an instant response. HOWEVER, I need to add that those that do post here are die-hards and are very very knowledgeable. Dave Lane, Mike Dent, Peter Nunney to name but 3. Plus the Imp Club Spares co-ordinator R.J.Allen is one of the first ports of call for parts, if you're a member. Malcolm Anderson and brother Graham for spares too, old and new. There are engine specialists, transaxle wizzards, and body repair experts to hand as well. You will soon learn where to get help, but don't be afraid to ask.

Andy G (Uncle Henry).
Andy (Uncle Henry),

First, many thanks for your message.

I did consider what was a reason no one had replied (although 4 have “thanked”).

I am not new to classic cars but I am definitely new to owning an Imp.

I wondered some silly items like; “is it because the car is in a non standard colour?”

Yes I am looking forward to meeting everyone at the next available event. It is always good to be around like-minded folk and the group (and rallies) will be a great source of support and wealth of information.

Thanks again Andy.
Paul
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by bazzateer »

Hi Paul,
The next official event will be Imp Ecosse in Montrose, Scotland (info in the latest Impressions).
Gives you time to make any changes and get used to it.
As
Also, get along to your local area centre meets.
If I told you I was a pathological liar, would you believe me?
Barry Blackmore - Chiltern ACO, apparently.......................
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by oli »

If you want good, solid, almost always correct information / help - this is the place to get it. The Forum may not be as busy / populated as the likes of Facebook etc, but a lot of us on here have been members / owners / restorers /tuners / racers etc for 20 or 30+ years... You can't shortcut that kind of experience, and we are always happy to help where and when possible.
As previously said - just ask.

Welcome along to the 'family'.

Oli
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

oli wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:55 pm If you want good, solid, almost always correct information / help - this is the place to get it. The Forum may not be as busy / populated as the likes of Facebook etc, but a lot of us on here have been members / owners / restorers /tuners / racers etc for 20 or 30+ years... You can't shortcut that kind of experience, and we are always happy to help where and when possible.
As previously said - just ask.

Welcome along to the 'family'.

Oli
Oli,

Appreciate that.

At 55 years old (me not my Imp) I am happy to wait for the right advice; from the right people.

Experience is everything for me. I own a Citroen 2CV and between the club and the specialist she goes to I have learned much… and spent more!

Many thanks Oli.

I look forward to meeting many Impers.

Paul
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

bazzateer wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:11 pm Hi Paul,
The next official event will be Imp Ecosse in Montrose, Scotland (info in the latest Impressions).
Gives you time to make any changes and get used to it.
As
Also, get along to your local area centre meets.
I have received the first month magazine.

Will be checking what the local area are up to.

Just busy getting the car as good as I can get her.

Thanks for reply.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by moose »

Hi Paul. Welcome to the club and world of imps. Hope this helps


They do not overheat if maintained correctly Change coolant at regular intervals based on mileage and or age, use demin water and blue anti-freeze any thoughts on water less and long life modern car stuff does not work. Fit an overflow tank (info on this forum)
The handling is superb if it is isn't you have a very very early Mk1 car with Pos camber or something is wrong or worn out on drum brakes and 155/70/13 £45 tyres.
You do not need discs, just a well maintained brake system most people have age related issues with the brakes and just go straight for disc conversion rather than getting to the root cause of the issue they then have an over braked front and the rear still has not been overhauled and not working half as well as it should.
Steering is nice and light, precise and smooth.

Suppliers I use and recommend

Bob at spares https://www.theimpclub.co.uk/imp-club-spares-lists/
Malcolm Anderson http://www.malcolmanderson.co.uk/
Graham Anderson Graham only has facebook page
Speedy spares https://www.speedyspares.co.uk/
Andy Jones (for complete engines he does not sell engine parts)
Body work Col Rooney

I prepare clans and imps for road and motorsport https://photos.app.goo.gl/BPnZ0jTLWBI1ueQr1 If you cannot find the info on the forum for anything imp related (also try here https://www.imps4ever.info/) If you want fast answers and then spend a few hours researching the correct one then use facebook until you find out the background of the people posting. There is so much bad advice on FB and some of it frankly dangerous.


Regards Mike 07973298368 impcompetitionparts@gmail.com
Regards Moose imp competition secretary
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

moose wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 10:28 am Hi Paul. Welcome to the club and world of imps. Hope this helps


They do not overheat if maintained correctly Change coolant at regular intervals based on mileage and or age, use demin water and blue anti-freeze any thoughts on water less and long life modern car stuff does not work. Fit an overflow tank (info on this forum)
The handling is superb if it is isn't you have a very very early Mk1 car with Pos camber or something is wrong or worn out on drum brakes and 155/70/13 £45 tyres.
You do not need discs, just a well maintained brake system most people have age related issues with the brakes and just go straight for disc conversion rather than getting to the root cause of the issue they then have an over braked front and the rear still has not been overhauled and not working half as well as it should.
Steering is nice and light, precise and smooth.

Suppliers I use and recommend

Bob at spares https://www.theimpclub.co.uk/imp-club-spares-lists/
Malcolm Anderson http://www.malcolmanderson.co.uk/
Graham Anderson Graham only has facebook page
Speedy spares https://www.speedyspares.co.uk/
Andy Jones (for complete engines he does not sell engine parts)
Body work Col Rooney

I prepare clans and imps for road and motorsport https://photos.app.goo.gl/BPnZ0jTLWBI1ueQr1 If you cannot find the info on the forum for anything imp related (also try here https://www.imps4ever.info/) If you want fast answers and then spend a few hours researching the correct one then use facebook until you find out the background of the people posting. There is so much bad advice on FB and some of it frankly dangerous.


Regards Mike 07973298368 impcompetitionparts@gmail.com
Mike,

Oh wow. Love the clip. We make videos for our little channel showing the cars I own. I don’t think Hilda Bee will ever perform so well!

Thanks for all the information. Really very good to know.

A local garage that works on classic cars did say the antifreeze should be changed every year although one of them asked if I would prefer the waterless coolant. Your information has confirmed to me that I will only have it changed with demineralised water and anti freeze. I am going to look at the overflow tank you mention.

Also thanks for adding all the links. Makes finding things so much simpler.

The car, before I purchased it, has already had a disc brake conversion at the front so will leave that as is. She has had new inner and outer front wings, sills etc. The paintwork needs to be improved. A job for early next year. She was Firebrand Red (137) and my late Father’s Singer Chamois was red but I like the colour. Just needs to have a good finish on her.

Would you kindly advise on the best oil to use for her and also gearbox oil?

This car is extremely important to me now so I intend to put in as much as required to keep her good for many more years.

Thanks Mike,

Paul
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by Uncle Henry »

Others will have a personal choice, but for me it will ALWAYS be Valvolene VR1 Racing 20W50.
They'll come a'posting very shortly - listen to Mike : you can't go far wrong. By the way, where are you based ?

Andy G.
UH
Stans best mate.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

Uncle Henry wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:04 pm Others will have a personal choice, but for me it will ALWAYS be Valvolene VR1 Racing 20W50.
They'll come a'posting very shortly - listen to Mike : you can't go far wrong. By the way, where are you based ?

Andy G.
UH
Yes I am aware there will be different opinions :)

South Derbyshire
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by Uncle Henry »

South Derbyshire- a bit too far to join our fortnightly meetings in Sussex then ? :lol:

I've used VR1 for many years now. I'll admit it was initially because it said "racing", I'm a sucker for that. But, compared to my usual 20w50 at the time, it immediately stopped smoking on the over-run and when stood ticking over. Its not cheap, Paul, so shop around and buy extra when it's on some deal. Online delivered.

AG
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

Uncle Henry wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:14 pm South Derbyshire- a bit too far to join our fortnightly meetings in Sussex then ? :lol:

I've used VR1 for many years now. I'll admit it was initially because it said "racing", I'm a suckered for that. But, compared to my usual 20w50 at the time, it immediately stopped smoking on the over-run and when stood ticking over. Its not cheap, Paul, so shop around and buy extra when it's on some deal. Online delivered.

AG
I am now sold. VR1 priced and will be used.

Sussex might be a little far.

Wow, that is an engine bay. And you have the additional radiator tank. I need to look into that.

What would you use in the gearbox?
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by Uncle Henry »

GL4 75w80 will be fine. EP80 was a factory fit, but the 75w80 multigrade is a modern equivalent. Be aware of the GL4 part - other ranges may contain additives not compatible with the innards of the tranny.

AG

The expansion tank is an ex-Rover SD1 item in brass. Others will do the job. I run EDIS wasted spark distributorless ignition, so you'll not find a dizzy in that image.
Stans best mate.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

Uncle Henry wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:51 pm GL4 75w80 will be fine. EP80 was a factory fit, but the 75w80 multigrade is a modern equivalent. Be aware of the GL4 part - other ranges may contain additives not compatible with the innards of the tranny.

AG

The expansion tank is an ex-Rover SD1 item in brass. Others will do the job. I run EDIS wasted spark distributorless ignition, so you'll not find a dizzy in that image.
Great. Thanks again for this.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by moose »

Hi. VR1 20/50, Millers 20/50 are good oils cost per oil change compared to an engine rebuild it is worth using good oil. For the gearbox use ep80 GL4 do not try and go for a more modern better oil for example GL5 oils may read to be better but the additives in GL5 will damage the yellow metal in the gearbox, The machining tolerances on the engine and box require the correct grades of oil. You have to consider that EP80 or 20/50 oils manufactured today are so much better quality than the ones available in the 60's etc. So a good quality of the correct spec will look after your car. I prefer Millers as they are a UK company and with the war in Ukraine some oil companies are struggling to provide their oils, but not Millers. https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/ ... 80w90-gl4/ https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/ ... nce-20w50/
Regards Moose imp competition secretary
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by moose »

Radiator expansion tank.

1 litre non pressure bottle pipe to the overflow stub on filler neck, half fill with coolant.

Fill rad with coolant, you will notice you cannot fill it full due to shape of head tank. Fit cap run engine till stat opens and then turn off if the system is in good condition as the engine cools and the coolant contacts it will pull coolant from expansion tank you may have to repeat this process a few times do not take rad cap off just keep the tank half full of coolant. When you have cycled the temp a few times you will have a coolant system full of coolant and no air (coolant/air mix does not cool as efficiently as and air free coolant) what you should have now in the tank is a cold low level and a hot high level. The hot high level is because the coolant has got hot and expanded and the rad cap lifts at 7 psi and the coolant passes into the bottle (it will also bubble any air out into the tank) when the engine cools the coolant is sucked back into the rad. you use these two levels to keep an eye on your coolant level any change in these levels you have a problem. if you do remove the cap you need to repeat the heat cycling until all air is expelled and the two levels remain consistent.

If you think about what the coolant does in the engine. It sits on the hot part of the metal in the engine like the water jacket area around the back of the exhaust valve seats. Now think about an old electric cooker hot plate you have it glowing red hot and pour water on it, as you pour the water on it is not pressurised and mixed with air it bubbles and steams off if this boiling was in a closed system the rate it expands and pressure caused will lift the rad cap pressure relief valve and will force coolant out of the pipe and onto the floor, when the engine cools it will pull more air back into the system. If you put the pan onto the hot plate quickly upside down how long would it take to boil that large volume of water ? If you could replenish the water in the pan constantly it would cool the hot plate down, if you could also add pressure you would raise the boiling point and pack the water onto the metal plate preventing it bubbling and dancing on the hot surface so more coolant in more contact with more metal equals better cooling. Water wetter coolant additives that help reduce temperatures are an additive that removes oxygen from you coolant via a chemical process. These are not required on a coolant system on a standard car that is working correctly but it explains (I hope) how removing air from you coolant and keeping it out via the expansion tank (pipe from stub needs to be submerged in coolant in tank at all times) reduces engine temp. Couple this with a good clean interior and exterior of your radiator and a good anti-freeze that is a corrosion inhibitor and has chemicals in it to remove air and the car should always run at thermostat temperature. Hope that makes sense I would never make a physics teacher !

Keep the fins on the exterior of the rad straight and clean more air over more fins equals better cooling. Any air the fan pushes towards the rad should be forced past the fins so any gap larger than the gap between fins the air will take that route of least resistance and you loose cooling performance.
Regards Moose imp competition secretary
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Expansion bottle in mine - Triumph stag . Cap / bottle arnt pressurised - its a modded rad cap , the pressure caps on the rad as normal , works really well , difference between hot and cold is roughly an inch
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

moose wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:23 am Hi. VR1 20/50, Millers 20/50 are good oils cost per oil change compared to an engine rebuild it is worth using good oil. For the gearbox use ep80 GL4 do not try and go for a more modern better oil for example GL5 oils may read to be better but the additives in GL5 will damage the yellow metal in the gearbox, The machining tolerances on the engine and box require the correct grades of oil. You have to consider that EP80 or 20/50 oils manufactured today are so much better quality than the ones available in the 60's etc. So a good quality of the correct spec will look after your car. I prefer Millers as they are a UK company and with the war in Ukraine some oil companies are struggling to provide their oils, but not Millers. https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/ ... 80w90-gl4/ https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/ ... nce-20w50/
I will use the VR1.

Thanks for the information and links for both oils.

Learning so much already. Although I appreciate my late father’s car would have been younger back in the 70s I don’t think he ever even had an oil change on his.

I look after my cars, although that is with trusted specialists as I am not a mechanic.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

moose wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:50 am Radiator expansion tank.

1 litre non pressure bottle pipe to the overflow stub on filler neck, half fill with coolant.

Fill rad with coolant, you will notice you cannot fill it full due to shape of head tank. Fit cap run engine till stat opens and then turn off if the system is in good condition as the engine cools and the coolant contacts it will pull coolant from expansion tank you may have to repeat this process a few times do not take rad cap off just keep the tank half full of coolant. When you have cycled the temp a few times you will have a coolant system full of coolant and no air (coolant/air mix does not cool as efficiently as and air free coolant) what you should have now in the tank is a cold low level and a hot high level. The hot high level is because the coolant has got hot and expanded and the rad cap lifts at 7 psi and the coolant passes into the bottle (it will also bubble any air out into the tank) when the engine cools the coolant is sucked back into the rad. you use these two levels to keep an eye on your coolant level any change in these levels you have a problem. if you do remove the cap you need to repeat the heat cycling until all air is expelled and the two levels remain consistent.

If you think about what the coolant does in the engine. It sits on the hot part of the metal in the engine like the water jacket area around the back of the exhaust valve seats. Now think about an old electric cooker hot plate you have it glowing red hot and pour water on it, as you pour the water on it is not pressurised and mixed with air it bubbles and steams off if this boiling was in a closed system the rate it expands and pressure caused will lift the rad cap pressure relief valve and will force coolant out of the pipe and onto the floor, when the engine cools it will pull more air back into the system. If you put the pan onto the hot plate quickly upside down how long would it take to boil that large volume of water ? If you could replenish the water in the pan constantly it would cool the hot plate down, if you could also add pressure you would raise the boiling point and pack the water onto the metal plate preventing it bubbling and dancing on the hot surface so more coolant in more contact with more metal equals better cooling. Water wetter coolant additives that help reduce temperatures are an additive that removes oxygen from you coolant via a chemical process. These are not required on a coolant system on a standard car that is working correctly but it explains (I hope) how removing air from you coolant and keeping it out via the expansion tank (pipe from stub needs to be submerged in coolant in tank at all times) reduces engine temp. Couple this with a good clean interior and exterior of your radiator and a good anti-freeze that is a corrosion inhibitor and has chemicals in it to remove air and the car should always run at thermostat temperature. Hope that makes sense I would never make a physics teacher !

Keep the fins on the exterior of the rad straight and clean more air over more fins equals better cooling. Any air the fan pushes towards the rad should be forced past the fins so any gap larger than the gap between fins the air will take that route of least resistance and you loose cooling performance.
The number of people saying to add an additional bottle for cooling.

That is a very useful and detailed comment that although I have understood I think it will be a chat with the classic car specialist as I don’t trust me!

I have a responsibility to the car to do my best to keep it in good condition and as I will be the owner until I no longer am around this detail is very useful and appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:41 am Expansion bottle in mine - Triumph stag . Cap / bottle arnt pressurised - its a modded rad cap , the pressure caps on the rad as normal , works really well , difference between hot and cold is roughly an inch
Looks very neat too.

I will have a chat with the local garage.

Thanks
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

I like the concept and admit I have never seen or heard of one being fitted.

I will be making sure the coolant is changed every year.

Thanks for your comment.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by Grahame59 »

My Land Rover Series 3 has exactly the system Moose describes, as standard, i.e. an expansion tank that is half-filled. To check the coolant you check the expansion tank, not the rad. Unfortunately it's not transparent so can't be checked 'at a glance'.

Btw, I too use Valvoline VR1 Racing 20/50 in my Imp. I was initially wary in case it was a 'racing' oil but it's not. It's a high quality non-synthetic 20/50, exactly what an Imp thirsts after!

For gearbox oil I use Valvoline 75W/90 fully synthetic GL4. I'm sure this noticeably improved the gearchange which is wonderfully slick though whether this is due to the slightly thinner oil when cold (compared to 80W/90) or being synthetic I don't know, I suspect the former.
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

Grahame59 wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:58 am My Land Rover Series 3 has exactly the system Moose describes, as standard, i.e. an expansion tank that is half-filled. To check the coolant you check the expansion tank, not the rad. Unfortunately it's not transparent so can't be checked 'at a glance'.

Btw, I too use Valvoline VR1 Racing 20/50 in my Imp. I was initially wary in case it was a 'racing' oil but it's not. It's a high quality non-synthetic 20/50, exactly what an Imp thirsts after!

For gearbox oil I use Valvoline 75W/90 fully synthetic GL4. I'm sure this noticeably improved the gearchange which is wonderfully slick though whether this is due to the slightly thinner oil when cold (compared to 80W/90) or being synthetic I don't know, I suspect the former.
Ah of course it is basically a standard (on more modern stuff) expansion tank. I would not have ever considered it for fitting an Imp.

I am assured by many (including you) as to what oils to use and the VR1 will indeed be used in my car. Racing or not :)

Thanks
moose
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by moose »

You dont need the expansion bottle however I find it is a fantastic indicator of health for the cooling system amnd how things are running in general as you will know the fluid height hot and cold.

I would never have noticed the slow coolant loss on my chamois if the bottle was not fitted, it would simply have ended up overheating and at that point the damage is susually done somewhere
[/quote]


I would disagree there John. Only personal opinion but I think it is a design flaw as you cannot fill radiator brim full so always have an air/coolant mix and that does not cool as well as a coolant only system and with the expansion due to temp it would always have pushed coolant out until there was enough room/air in the top tank of rad to accept the expansion. This is one of the reasons why imps got a reputation for overheating along with other issues on the cooling system like the early rads and pumps which they sorted. I am not saying that the overflow/expansion bottle will save and engine or cure a problem but it is worth fitting to even a perfectly working system. The cooling system on any car cannot over cool as the T/stat controls the temp so having a cooling system that works so well that the T/stat regulates the temp is best it gives some margin for exceptional circumstances like a 34 deg C UK day and sat in traffic.
Regards Moose imp competition secretary
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by Pog »

Lovely looking Imp there Paul! Really like the colour, it looks like the platinum 'Spring Special' cars.

Pog
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ProjectHildaBee
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Re: Hillman Imp Deluxe 1972 (LHC 714K)

Post by ProjectHildaBee »

Pog wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:18 pm Lovely looking Imp there Paul! Really like the colour, it looks like the platinum 'Spring Special' cars.

Pog
Thanks

My late father’s car was red and this one was originally Firebrand Red 137.

I like the colour but the paintwork needs a lot of improvement (laid on by a trowel it looks like) so if it can be improved it will stay that colour but if it requires a full respray it may have to be put back to red.

Thanks again.
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