Sunbeam Imp Sport - OUH 19M

[David Sage]

I have got the petrol tank in and connected and I have also now removed the gear control shaft from the car and now have this in the vice on my bench. Looks like the pin has come out.
Bob recommended removing the rivets and replace parts. I think maybe I will at least grind away rivets and replace pin. Every thing has been very well greased but the grommet has a split in it.
So will see if Bob has a replacement.

A little progress, Rome was not built in a day.

DS

[David Sage]

I am having trouble posting replies and pictures

I have trouble with removing the throttle cable, I have removed the throttle fixing clip bolt and I can not see how to remove the fixing.

I have had some welding done on the gear change mechanism as there was a captive nut missing.

I have yet to install both throttle and choke cable but first I have to remove the throttle cable.

I will try once again toe post.


DS

[The Nun]

The throttle "outer" cable is held in place underneath the car by a single P clip and self tapper in the tunnel where it comes up at the front to go behind the front suspension.
The front of the outer cable enters a socket in the floor there too to locate it place, it just pushes in and then it's held in place by the P clip.
The original could be stuck in the socket which is alloy due to rust/corrosion here and will need to be worked free and pulled out.

Note you may need to adjust the size of the P clip to grip the new cable as they are often thinner now then the originals were.

The outer then just runs down the tunnel to to rear supported by the pipe clips that also hold the fuel/brake pipes.

Once the outer is fixed in place you then have to feed the "inner" cable into it from inside the car and once fed fully in attach it to the accelerator pedal with its end clevis.

You cant fit the inner and outer as an assembly, you have the remove the inner cable then fit the outer first to the car as above nderneath first then feed the inner back into it from inside the car as the clevis on the end of the inner stops you feeding it all in from underneath, unless of course you have an inner cable with a separate clevis which you may have if you were fitting something non standard say like a cable from a tandem cycle.

Hope you get all that?

[David Sage]

Thanks that’s very helpful,

I’ll try and upload pictures tomorrow as my computer is locked doing something and I can’t get in to my pictures for the moment.

I have taken a picture of the small bolt which holds the clip and will upload them tomorrow. I’ll try and see if I can work loose fixing.

I managed to get all the black sealant off the rear window, took me around three hours, I’ll mask around the frame of the window and spray some primer and try and find a red to match.

DS

[The Nun]

Picture keeps coming out upside down, sorry, but you can see the arrangement here the end of the outer is just a push in fit to the alloy socket, once you've undone the P clip the outer just pulls out. Note this picture shows the early inner cable without the clevis on the end of inner.

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[David Sage]

Hi,

Please see photo, I can't move the cable, I will try and work it loose today.

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[David Sage]

I have been able to remove the small bolts but the rest of the mechanism is stuck fast.

I will try and fit rear window seal today.

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Here is a picture of gear lever mount, a captive nut was no longer captive. Soo now have new nut in place.

[David Sage]

I don't know why the picture is upside down.

DS

[The Nun]

Yeah mines coming out upside down too even though the original is correct, no matter, your tunnel looks like it's been cut away on the inside there, it shouldn't be like that, someone's been messing with it maybe so at one time the pipes could be run through the interior? Might be why you're having difficulties with the cable maybe there's an additional clip behind the steering rack plate.

[David Sage]

Hi,

I have managed to remove the throttle cable using a large pair of mull grips and tugging and hammering the grips until it came loose. I removed the inner part first, I can now see the fixing clip and it looks like a small tube. The new cable I have with collars at both ends will not fit through the fixing and the tube. The old cable ran through the tube. For the moment I still can't remove this fixing. I am guessing the the small bolt locks the outer of the cable in place.

DS

[The Nun]

The small piece of tube might have been fitted to increase the diameter of the new cable to stop it sliding through the P clip, as I said new cables are a fair bit thinner than the original ones and the P clip won't hold it securely, Maybe this is what you're seeing?
All that should be there is the alloy socket screwed to the floor for the outer cable end to push in to and the P clip about 4 inches further down, anything else has been added.
Once you fit the new cable you may need to adjust the P clip bore so it grips the new cable securely and you can increase its diameter locally with a small piece of plastic tube over it, or build the diameter up at the P clip with tape, or use zip ties etc

The fact your tunnel has been cut open on the inside of the car in that area suggests someone has been messing around there for whatever reason,

[David Sage]

Peter,

I think someone has been messing about a lot. I will see if I can get the tube out and make any corrections or make some changes. Or make some new fixings. Your idea of cable ties may be part of the solution. I think the tube is going to have to come out, so that I can make changes.

I Tried to start the car but no joy, I have the Magnet filter in the tank so I may need more fuel. I put in some thing like 4 litres, so will get more tomorrow. I double checked ignition timing and I seem to have a very faint spark but I do have a spark.

The clock working on the dash board, guess thats progress.

DS

[The Nun]

4 litres should be more than enough for it to pump through even with the tank magnet, did you blow the fuel line through to make sure its clear, unless you've renewed it.

[David Sage]

My son blew the line clear, I am getting some fuel as I spin over the engine but it’s not a lot. I’ll try and add a little more fuel and charge the battery. It’s a long while since I stood at the back of an imp and tried to start it. Maybe a new coil would help. I have a spare coil for my motorcycle maybe give that a try first.

DS

[David Sage]

My son blew the line clear, I am getting some fuel as I spin over the engine but it’s not a lot. I’ll try and add a little more fuel and charge the battery. It’s a long while since I stood at the back of an imp and tried to start it. Maybe a new coil would help. I have a spare coil for my motorcycle maybe give that a try first.

DS

[The Nun]

If the carbs have stood ages with old fuel in them the needle valves are probably seized up with a varnish residue stopping flow if you still can't get fuel into the engine? Same with the pump is it full of debris behind the integral filter?

[David Sage]

I got the carbs form Bob the spares man, they had no fuel in them. So I will check that there is enough fuel getting to them. I had changed the valves in the petrol pump.

Bobs going to get back to me with a solution for the throttle cable and I still have the gear lever mechanism and choke cable to install.

I now have new springs for the front, but looks like I will need shock absorbers as well. Old shocks look like there going to be a challenge to remove.

DS

[The Nun]

If the shocks are scrap and you cant undo the fixings just saw them off, though they normally yield if get the nuts red-hot.

[David Sage]

Peter,

Taking a disc cutter to them crossed my mind. I will try and get my brazing torch on them. I been looking on line for some replacements, number of companies offering Spax shocks - I am not sure what either manufacturers are out there or suppliers.

Foiled by the rain today as car is outside. I was going to double check timing and make sure its getting enough fuel and try starting it again.

I am waiting on Bob to get back tome with a solution for the throttle cable.

DS

[The Nun]

Mike Dent supplies Protech shocks specially set up for the imp, not cheap mind you.

[David Sage]

Peter,

Thanks, any discount for club members?

DS

[The Nun]

Not sure but I believe you get a free mug

[moose]

Hi Dave. A full car set of Protech dampers is £545 fast road or motorsport spec based on the original Koni spec. That price includes delivery and yes The Nun a free mug!

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3 year warranty on road spec and they can be rebuilt if required. They are a lot lighter than any other dampers, I use Protech after trying every other make of damper and nothing came close to the Koni hence why i had the protechs made with a few tweaks to improve things when Koni's were no longer available. If you want to run low or very low i can have them made with shorter bodies so you retain suspension travel.

My rally car on the Koni spec set up running 155/70/13 cheap winter tyres the handling is fantastic and if the car was on better tyres it would not move. I run the narrow tyres to lose grip to protect the drivetrain and make the car more agile on grippy tarmac. As for not cheap that is only in comparison to inferior products the Reiger dampers we use on the modern rally cars are £2500 a damper approx come down the scale and you have these non adjustable for a popular car so these will be mass produced https://www.westwalesrallyspares.co.uk/ ... oup4-rally if you look on the same website they have AVO dampers which are cheap but nobody uses them on an escort in proper competition so i like to think the Protechs are suitably priced in between so you get the best of both worlds if the quality is good enough for motorsport you will not have a problem on a road car. There are a few people with road going imps that are on the Koni spec so do not think they are over the top for a road car Dave lane has some Koni spec that i tweaked for fast road use on the rears by moving the shim pack. If you want to discuss anything suspension and handling wise please get in touch i have not seen any info in recent years of anyone improving imp suspension performance with any real data and use. If you do a search back in the day Koni was the best spax was second place but the more modern spaxes do not get good press and certainly did not work for me. 07973298368 mikedent87@gmail.com

[David Sage]

Moose,

Many thanks for all the information and the video. I see they are a little pricey for me at the moment. I have invested money in the car to try and bring it back at least sports level. New carbs, sport cam, exhaust system, silencer, master cylinders, slave cylinders, water pump and so the list goes on.

Plus the welding.

Going to Hillman Imp event today at Popham airport.

DS

[moose]

No problem every budget has a limit and needs to be managed. If you do need any advice just get in touch.

[David Sage]

Hi, I have fitted new shocks and springs front and rear. The front shocks on one side fell out. So I have had my favourite welder make up new supports bot sides.

I’ll try and and photos.

I am struggling with the new drive shaft do nuts, I can get them as per Haynes manual. I came get three bolts in on the drive shaft but there seem to be no way I can rotate the road wheels past these bolts.

Any help would be much appreciated.

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Cheers,

DS

[John A Ross]

David

The top shock/spring mounts are bolted into the car, not part of the body.

Basically part 52 from the diagram below, fixes from fuel tank side by 2 bolts and upwards into the H mount in chassis via two studs and nuts.

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Looks like yours has rusted in there good and proper.

It is not a weld/repair part and the hole in the H mount flat portion to fit it the holes is actually intended to be big so the brackets dome can pop through

You can buy the proper mounts from Club Spares part 7102063, better image below

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Close up of how the H mount should look on its own.

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[David Sage]

Hi,

I have new mounts from Bob the spares man.
I’ll try and add a photo of the new brackets which my friendly neighbour welder did.

Any advice on the do nuts?.

I’m thinking of putting all the bolts in from one side on the drive shaft.

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DS

[John A Ross]

Dave

Ah, you are all sorted I see.

I found it easier to just make new H mounts completely, malcolm kindly lend me a factory mount to copy which I did out of cut flat sections, assembled in the jig and welded up.

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Coupling wise it depends which coupling you bought, standard ones can be persuaded to fit, proper ones often called "competition" ones which are similar to those on the liotus and well worth the extra money, they need a compressor band.

Either way I attach the coupling with the three bolts to the inner drive shaft, then add the rmaining 3 to the coupling, fit inner driveshaft into the gearbox and manipulate from there,

The compressor band certainly makes life easier

[moose]

Hi. The car looks to be coming along well. For the donuts anything but SUK on a road car you will be ok so long as you drive it like it is a 35 BHP shopping car and they do not get contaminated in oil or are very old stock or you nick them wit ha blade or sharp object. I would go for the lotus/competition donut every time because they are made, used and replaced on a regular basis for Lotus owners and imp motorsports there is good turnover of stock and the use they get ensures quality stays high. The best way to fit them is to take the spider out of the gear box and stand it up in a vice and lay the donut on top. Then get 3 Jubilee clips linked together and tighten them around donut dead center of the rubber, tighten each clip until you can get the three bolts to just fall through. Anti seize compound on the bolts including the shanks and good quality bolts and nylocs are a must. Tighten the nuts and bolts up. Now fit spider and donut to the car and with rear damper disconnected, spring also removed and arm supported on a jack lower until drive shaft is at an angle so it can be lifted into position roughly, then raise arm on jack until you are horizontal or there about and fit the remaining three, having a wheel on the hub can help with rotating drive shaft to gain alignment.

It is an easy job to do, I have swapped one on the side of the road between stages on a scissor jack, with a sumpguard fitted and working through the wheel arch in less that 15 mins, with mud dripping onto me. It is all about taking your time and learning how to do it and not have negative thoughts in your head from people who have not learnt how to do it properly and have filled the internet with comments about it being a pig to do or really difficult. You then set off to tackle a simple job in the wrong frame of mind. It would also be a good idea to radius the edge of the driveshaft three legs to make it match the radius on the inner spiders, this prevents damage to the donuts. Whilst a lot of this is competition derived and people can be put off by the costs of competition parts and work involved and justify not doing it as "it is only a road car" and think the parts a re for performance only that is only half the story. The golden rule of competition "to finish first, first you have to finish" so most motorsport parts are developed to give reliability and long life.

[David Sage]

That’s really helpful thanks a lot.

I could get one side fitted with thee bolts but to get the others in seem impossible. I thought that maybe my car has been bumped or some collision where by things have moved.

As I said I used a disc cutter to remove the. Old bolts and a lot of to throw to ease them out.

I have got the sports exhaust in place and u-bolts from Bob arrived today along with two flexi brake pipes for the rear. Rain stopped play today, hopefully will get two these two jobs tomorrow.

DS

[David Sage]

I've struggled with the car and it refuses to start.

It runs momentarly using clutch cleaner, not a good idea.

I am waiting on a clip for the choke mechanism which I have ordered from BOB.

A real pain, so I am looking for some help and advice, apart from finding a large cliff and tip it off the end.

Helped distressed of Fareham


DS

[moose]

First of all take a step back and compose yourself, you will miss the obvious if the car has wound you up. It is quite surprising that after a day or just stopping for a brew how something will stand out to you when you go back to it. Try to keep it simple in your head. Have you done a cylinder leak down test or a compression test? Has the engine run well before? You could be wasting your time if there is something mechanically wrong with the engine. Assuming you have approx. 180 psi compression on all four cylinders give or take 10 psi and that reading is obtained with all four plugs out and throttle wide open.


1. Check for 12 volts or above at coil positive terminal
2. Points gap 16 thou
3. Clean or ideally new plugs gapped at 30 thou and sparks at all four plugs
4. Ignition timing set correctly
5. Fresh fuel
6. Fuel pump pumping
7. Needle valve on carb not stuck (carb float bowl has fuel in it).
8. Idle and other jets/internals of carb spotlessly clean.

SO if we have the above I.E. sparks and they are arriving at correct time, compression and fuel it will run, If no cold start choke pump the throttle pedal 4 times, start the car and keep revving the throttle to keep it running until the engine warms enough that it no longer needs pumping or the choke to idle.

[David Sage]

Well I’ve managed to get to the pub, it’s a mile and half away, so some time to cool down.

I am fairly happy with most of the above as I built the engine and I pretty sure the problem is
Not the engine, cam timing or valve timing and I am also sure the sparks are in the right place.
For the moment I am running a gravity feed fuel system, the pump is new so just leaves me with the carb.
I got the stombergs from Bob and he said they were ok and jetted for a sports head. I have Sports cam but just a standard head. So maybe some changes in jetting, perhaps.

Thanks thanks for your help it’s very much appreciated.

I used to maintain an EW system on one of her majesty’s war ships. The system was in three separate parts joined together by a couple of hundred yards of cable and major equipment in three locations - I never did understand it. They had the same system on HMS Sheffield but switched it off.

I give it a go tomorrow thanks again.

DS

[John A Ross]

For the moment I am running a gravity feed fuel system, the pump is new so just leaves me with the carb.

David

Mike covered it perfectly but just to add never assume that anything new is OK, do not take pump off the list yet

An issue not so long ago with "new" pump, issue ended up being some crap in the valve on the input so it was not sealing and fuel was getting pushed back tankwards as well as the carb as the non return valve could not work as it was tuck open, I wwas surprised it lifted at all.

Yes it was new, technbically not faulty and a victim of another issue (crap in line) but was indeed where the issue lay. I changed that twice while under the influence of the red mist for the original genuinely worn one and back again.

I am sure Mike can sympathise on the control systems

[David Sage]

I’ll check the pump today and make sure it’s working ok.

I’m reminded of my first time around with my hillman imp history. As I recall I bought a 1966 Imp around 1972, it would be the car that my wife and I would leave the reception after our wedding. Car went fine but always had a problem after a few miles the car would start to miss fire. I changed just about everything in the ignition system and it did not clear it, plugs, points, ignition leads, distributor cap, coil still no change. Carburettor out and cleaned several times, still no change.
Turns out that the carb had a tickler mechanism and in this I found a very small stone.

Will try again today and start to check all the above.

Keep you posted.

DS

[David Sage]

I tightened the fan belt as recommended and there then appeared screeching noise from the dynamo as I rotated the engine, so I have to replace this with a new one or change to an alternator.

I Had just not tested it before.

All brakes are adjusted and the hand brake.
I dug out my comprehension tested so will test cylinder tomorrow.

Waiting on Bob for information on alternator as a replacement.


DS

[John A Ross]

David

Try this lovely conversion (From Dave Lanes employer)

https://brise.co.uk/product/hillman-imp ... cba1185463

You will need a new bracket for your alternator or alternativel make some spacers and a long bolt from threaded rod (crude but gets you out a pickle)

This is what I fitted to DDG

https://www.hillmanimp.org/forum/worksh ... rd-wiring

Takes standard connector, Graham Anderson did a wiring kit for alternators at one time although it is not difficult to wire up but by the time you gather the bits together you would be as well getting Grahams kit

.

[David Sage]

I have ordered an alternator as recommended by Bob, Bob is also going to supply bracket and bolt.

I have a question:

My car appears to be positive earth the car is M registered as you can see fro the title.

All the lights work indicators work, surely it should be negative earth. I also get a spark out of the ignition.

Also, with new springs and shocks the still looks like it is really low at the rear.

DS

[David Sage]

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[David Sage]

I would like the car to be level.

DS

[bazzateer]

Try a pair of standard height Monte Carlo springs, should drop the front an inch or so.

[David Sage]

I have Monte Carlo’s springs all around.

DS

[John A Ross]

Dave

You need to decide if you want it all lwoered or just level, adding montes all round has dropped front and back the same.

Drop your standard springs into rear again and see how it sits.

The exta inch drop on the front and satndard spings on the back has always gave a better "level" look for me.

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If you want a nice front setup at front speak to Mike Dent (aka moose) about some coilovers and springs

[jetmech]

Are Monte Carlo springs stiffer than standard? If so will having standard on the rear and MC on the front affect the handling?
I only ask, because I too would like to lower the front of my car, I have just fitted Monte’s all around and was thinking of fitting 1/2 inch top hat spacers under the rear springs.

Simon

[bazzateer]

Just fit Montes on the front, standard on the rear. I'll see if I can upload a photo of my Chamois.
Wheels are 6x13 alloys with 175-65-13 tyres.

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[David Sage]

Gentlemen thank you.

Now I have montes all round, I try shorter springs at the front, this would appear to be the easier option for now. Will shorter springs change the camber.

Hoping bracket and bolt for alternator arrive today and I can get started on the change to negative earth etc.

DS

[moose]

Hi. Is the car at full weight? have you just let it down off the jack ? If you are going to fit even shorter front springs then you will need shorter body dampers or you will not have enough travel. Have you go the rubber isolation rubbers on top of the rear springs? Altering ride height at the front alters camber and tracking. The front is quite softly sprung at 195lb this gives compliance and the damper ratings are quite low. This means when you brake or turn the nose of the car dips loading up the tyres to give good grip and to add negative camber than counteracts the tyre roll towards positive again increasing grip, the harder you corner the more the tyre tries to roll the more the front end dips and adds more negative camber, the aim is to have enough static neg camber to offset the tyre roll so tyre choice comes into play. put spare wheel and jack in front of car get a water drum of 27 litres approx and put that in boot and get two people to sit in car, then roll car backwards and forwards on a flat surface turning the steering from lock to lock to settle everything and then take a look at your ride height.

[David Sage]

Moose,

Thanks that’s really helpful, loads of useful information and perhaps I should asked earlier. I assumed that fitting montes all round would level the car. I may experiment with the old front springs and cut them down, add weight to the front and roll it around on my drive and see what it looks like. I really don’t want the rear an lower, in fact I think it might look better a little higher.

Engine still has to be started, I checked the compression on two cylinders, I can’t get to them all.
Two cylinders were above 130+

Loads to do. And I don’t think I will make the get together at Alton with the car.

DS

[David Sage]

Hello,

I bought a new battery for the car a year ago from Halfords, it’s been fine. As I said I connected both terminals they were different sizes and I connected them where they fitted. So the positive terminal went to earth. I think I may have connected it wrong way round.

I am surprised thins worked. I also that this reduces the spark to the plugs by 50%.

Do you know if my car is positive or negative earth.

Haynes states it should be negative if I read the wiring diagrams correctly.

DS