Sunbeam Imp Sport - OUH 19M

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:49 pm

Hi,

Just a not of introduction, my name is David Sage and I joined the club at the beginning of the year.

I have had two previous Imps, one when I was an apprentice scientific instrument maker at the imperial college in London and the other somewhere around the 1990’s. I did a fair amount of work on the first Imp and I think it was a mk1 version. Because I had the facilities to managed to skim the head and open up the inlet ports a fraction, that was long ago.

I purchased the Sunbeam on eBay yes, not a wise decision and I had it picked up from a small town in South Wales. Gentlemen stated that he had had the car running. Car had been garaged for nearly twenty years.

I have changed both master cylinders as there were locked and I have also removed the petrol tank and cleaned it inside and out.

Hopefully can install tank tomorrow.

Car came with a spare driver’s door, so I have removed the original door and may have some welding to do before with the hinge plates.

The original stromberg carbs have been replaced with a twin chock Nikki, my guess is that it is fitted with a standard camshaft.

Pog · Post by **Pog** » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:24 am

Welcome David, what are your plans for the car? Does it need much more work or just quick overhaul from being stood for so long? Would be great to see photos if you have them

Pog

Bobbycham · Post by **Bobbycham** » Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:19 pm

Welcome to the Club David , you'll find plenty of advice on here ,should you need it . JUST ASK .
How did you clean inside of tank ?

Where abouts are you based?

Bob

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:53 pm

Bob,

Man thanks for the welcome it’s very much appreciated.

I am based in Fareham so the Red lion pub looks like the place some people meet or at least used to meet. I have not been to the pub so may try once the dreaded lock down is over.

Cheers

RoyBlunt · Post by **RoyBlunt** » Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:29 pm

Welcome to the club.

When were you at IC? I'm guessing it was long after me (1966-69). You will obviously miss the workshop and other facilities.

Hope the work on the car goes well. Please keep us informed of progress.

Roy

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:40 pm

Roy,

I started at imperial in September of 1968 the first six months was spent in the mechanical engineering department followed by 6 months in the electrical engineering department, then six in metallurgy, then
Chemistry and then the physics department finally moving to infra red astronomy for the last six months in IC’s training system which ended with choosing to stay in infa red for the final two years of the apprenticeship.
I was there in infra red as the same time as a famous astronomer named Brian May. At the time I knew Brian quite well and assisted queen with one or two technical issues that they had on stage with some of their echo equipment.
On completion of this apprenticeship I worked in the microwave section of the electrical engineering department, which was a lot of fun building microwave systems across London. As these were for those that are familiar with this technology a stayed running at 48ghz.

All a long time ago.

I am still struggling to post pictures, will keep looking.

David

RoyBlunt · Post by **RoyBlunt** » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:36 pm

Not vastly different then. I was in the Chemistry Dept so had gone by the time you got there. Came across Brian May when he was a demonstrator in the Physics Dept - at the time he was in the group Smile - playing at a lot of Imperial events and learning his trade (apart from Astronomy!) before Queen.

Best of luck with the pics.

Roy

ImpManiac · Post by **ImpManiac** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:21 pm

Welcome, David!

I was at Imperial College from September 1992 until November 2001. A few years after your time - and Brian May's.

What are your plans for your Imp?

IM

Byronmills · Post by **Byronmills** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:26 am

Great to see this has gone to a good home. Prior to its hibernation the car was in daily use - and was to be seen quite regularly between Milford Haven and Carmarthen and was normally parked outside the Little Chef in St Clears in the region. I thought it might have met it's maker as it had vanished - but was pleased to see it had survived when it appeared on eBay. UH is a Cardiff suffix so it was probably originally registered at Glanfield Lawrences on City Road. Hope the car doesn't throw up too many hidden surprises - once or twice it's former keeper did join us at some local shows back in the mid nineties - I'm looking forward to seeing your progress with the car.

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:45 am

RoyBlunt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:29 pm Welcome to the club.

When were you at IC? I'm guessing it was long after me (1966-69).

Roy

All this talk of IC, was I the only one who thought Imp Club

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:19 am

Byron,

Thank you for the note.

I am having trouble posting a reply so this is just a test.

David

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:48 pm

Byron,

I try add photo.

David

EEEE4868-6FF5-4ECC-9B62-CCC6486A76DD.jpeg

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:01 pm

Paul,

I have the door hinge plate area to weld back in place. Fortunately, my neighbour is has been welding old cars and recently was working on an old mini and a herald. So I will see if he can help.

I have full service planned for the Sunbeam so that would include new oil, and filter, plugs and lead, fortunately, someone has already replaced points and condenser.

I’ll try and turn the photos around.

Where department were you at during you stay at imperial.

David

Bobbycham · Post by **Bobbycham** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:17 pm

Just because someone has replaced parts DOESN'T mean they're any GOOD, even new ones now can be inferior quality.
You'll probably find that out yourself.

Bob

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:15 pm

Bob,

Over many years I have repaired and rebuild several motorcycles mainly triumphs but a bsa and at the moment I have an Ariel arrow sprint bike which has not run for over a year, because of you know what.

I have in the pipeline new barrels and heads for the arrow with a twin carb engine build by a Ariel/Suzuki tuner in Nottingham. But all of this has been put on hold. I also have a T20 Suzuki to rebuild. Most of the bikes I converted to a sprint bike myself.

This is my first venture into classic cars. And like you say I will find what is good out there and what is not. In the past I have bought chrome parts which have rusted the fist time there were out in the rain.

Bob I will need help and would like to request this as I get bogged down with some of the challenges ahead. I am pretty much ok with the engine but all the rest is going to be very much of a challenge.

David

A triumph gearbox you can hold in your hands and place in the casing. I was always stumped by the imp gearboxe and as I recall my first Imp only had three working forward gears. And for years after this my wife would hint as we were driving that I needed to change up into fourth.

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:06 pm

Bob,

I cleaned the tang with boiling hot water and fairy liquid and shook the tank backwards and forwards for a short while and flushed it through with a lot of water.

I keep writing replies and they just disappear.

I’ll try again.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:08 pm

Bob,

Should read TANK

John A Ross · Post by **John A Ross** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:29 pm

David

If the tank has been lying a while with fuel gone off I usually give it a wash with some fine fish tank gravel and this

https://www.rust.co.uk/product/tank-kle ... greaser-17

Great results

Another good one I have used just to make sure no crust hiding where the camera cant see is this

https://bilthamber.com/product/fuel-tank-cleaning-kit/

Roy can fill in the chemistry bits but internal rust or fuel residue crud usually needs something agressive. As a pre clean I tend to blast at 140 degress 150 Bar at end of lance and that hardly descales rotted fuel.

Outside the tank I use Epoxy Mastic from either of those suppliers, prep outside of tank with no finer than 240 grit, make sure no shiny bits, for epoxy coatings shiny is shlt and after epoxy coat in about 2 weeks (full cure time) feel free to spill fuel all over it, or brake fluid, even thinners and you wont see peeling paint.

Before use fit one of Bob Pictons in tank filters

Pictures here of a very crusty fuel tank I brought back tio life with the above then fitted Bobs filter just inc ase

have fitted those filters ever since.

Other than me stuicking anti slip matt down and finding out that was not pertrol resistant the hard way

the tanks turned out spotless inside which is what matters

https://www.hillmanimp.org/articles/193 ... erivities

Very best of luck with the build

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:40 am

John,

Thanks for all the advice regarding the Tank.

When I have cleaned out motorcycle tanks I have use nuts and shaken them around.

The tank did not look too bad but as you state you can't see everywhere inside.

Will take your advice and add a filter in the line.

moose · Post by **moose** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:34 am

Welcome to the cub and forum. The best advice i can give you is to ask on here before buying anything and be very wary of anything on the internet and cheap.

Buying from the club means money goes back into the club funds and that can mean parts that are rare or unavailable, high turnover items can be produced and in larger batches which gives you quality with a good price.

Malcolm Anderson does very similar to club and supports club and club supports Malcolm to produce parts when required.

Speedy spares have a lot of old stock items.

As with any social media platform research the people who give you advice, sometimes feels like stalking

you need to wary of duff advice. You will soon learn who actually knows what they are talking about on any particular subject.

There is no such thing as a stupid question.

Bobbycham · Post by **Bobbycham** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:13 am

Firstly THANKS for the sales pitch John

David
Ah you didn't read Johns reply correctly ! In line filters don't overcome a problem with Imp fuel tanks , which is , coating coming off inside of tank floats about in tank and can settle over 1\4" diameter outlet pipe ,thus causing fuel starvation , as l said in line filter will not cure this problem , the in tank filters I SELL cures that problem at source. You can see them here, as you're a member.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32824&p=320715&hili ... er#p320715
There is another link on this write up which shows parts

Have seen fuel tank strapped to a diy cement mixer with gravel in tank with pipes blocked off to remove crud \coating from inside of tank.

Loads of knowledgeable EXPERTS on here to point you in correct direction , simply ask .

Bob

bazzateer · Post by **bazzateer** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:10 pm

Bobbycham wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:13 amHave seen fuel tank strapped to a diy cement mixer with gravel in tank with pipes blocked off to remove crud \coating from inside of tank.

I wouldn't use gravel, too tricky to get all the bits out. Nuts and bolts much easier.

Bobbycham · Post by **Bobbycham** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:16 pm

Waste of good nuts & bolts there

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:42 pm

Bob,

That looks like a really good solution to the tank and it’s filter issue. I must curb my enthusiasm of wanting to get the car back on the road as soon as possible.

Also for the moment I can’t go far with the door hinge in it’s present state. I have new hinge plates but I not know how there are fitted. The old plate fell on the floor and left behind a couple of large holes.

I have replaced both master cylinders and I have a slave cylinder on its way from our parts man. The next challenge is the servo. I have also ordered main hose pipe replacements, but not the hoses that run through the car.

The car rolls ok but I still don’t know if the breaks work so will have to check each wheel.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:59 pm

Moose,

Thank you for the welcome and information regarding parts suppliers.

I am looking for a sports head and cam to bring the sunbeam back to its original spec, that’s a first step.
I will need carbs as well. I have a set of twin choke delorto’s which were given to me but maybe I use this in a later build.

Three engine blocks and two gearboxes plus a drivers door came with the car. I also have two sets of steel wheels.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:07 pm

Barry,

I think you are right I would not use gravel. I have cleaned out motorcycle petrol and oil tanks in the past and in one case with an oil tank I had it cut in half and welded back together.

I have just about looked over most of the car and the only real problem seems to be the drivers door hinge. A drivers door came with the car and I was halfway through changing it when I ran into the hinge issue.

I now have a spare door, it’s the one in the pictures.

So let me know if anyone out there is looking for a door- I can more pictures.

DS

bazzateer · Post by **bazzateer** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:38 pm

Bobbycham wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:16 pm Waste of good nuts & bolts there

Use metric ones!

John A Ross · Post by **John A Ross** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:48 pm

No worries fellas, feel free not to use gravel

or perhaps my term gravel conjures up thoughts of builders stuff

Not sure what size of nuts you can use to clean the surface and get into the corners without denting the inside?.

Fine fish tank stuff is no worse than some of the rough abrasives used in vapour blasting but it is indeed the caustic agent that does most of the work.

If you have somewhere close that does dip stripping even better.

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:06 pm

David Sage wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:07 pm

I have just about looked over most of the car and the only real problem seems to be the drivers door hinge. A drivers door came with the car and I was halfway through changing it when I ran into the hinge issue.

DS

What's the matter with the door hinge? The pin is usually the only thing that's wears or is sometimes snapped, they can be knocked out and replaced, it's far easier to get the original door fitting gap wise than one off another car. It's wise if you're doing a resto to replace all the hinge pins anyway whilst the doors are off as the slightest play puts the rear end of the door out of line with the body swage line so the trim doesn't line up.

oli · Post by **oli** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:12 pm

And the retainer plate on the outside (inside the front wheelarch) is not attached by any means other than the bolts that go through from the lower hinge on the door. Once undone, it will drop off and reveal four larger holes for the bolts to pass through with enough slack to allow alignement / adjustment of the door itself.
I alway replace these with spare upper plates that are found loose sitting in a 'pocket' inside the car where the top hinge bolts are. A little tricky to get out of a donor shell, but they are solid 5-6mm thick plate with proper tapped holes instead of the flimsy plate with four nuts welded on. Much better.

Good luck with it, and like everyone says, just ask.

Oli

RoyBlunt · Post by **RoyBlunt** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:21 pm

David,
A bit off subject but I couldn't help noticing your mention of the Ariel Arrow sprint bike and the Suzuki T20 ('Super Six'). I bought a brand new Suzuki T20 in 1967 - a blue one - whilst I was at Imperial. Absolutely beautiful bike - with the first 6 speed gearbox available on a production road bike. Unfortunately it was sold to help fund the deposit on our first home in 1971. Did you build the Arrow sprint bike? Whilst I had motorcycles I used to occasionally go over to Santa Pod Raceway in Northamptonshire and still remember the noise from 'Ag's Barra' - Angus McPhail's Arrow based sprinter - as it left the line for a standing quarter mile! Impressive!

It is easier cleaning motorcycle fuel tanks with nuts & bolts because motorcycle tanks usually have nicely curved edges so the nuts & bolts get to clean everywhere. Car fuel tanks tend to be a bit more angular - particularly at the top.

Hope you get the car sorted and running soon.

Roy

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:42 am

Pog,

I am tying to get it back on the road as soon as possible. But as I have mentioned I must curb my enthusiasm just a bit.

Today I will attack the door hinge having received some real helpful information regarding how they are held in.

I have replied to you before but like one one or two other replies they did not post on to the forum.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:00 am

Oli,

That’s really helpful and I wondered how the door and hinge work on the car. As you have mentioned it dropped off on to the floor. I have purchased two replacements but for the moment will just replace the bottom plate. Car is on my drive so hope for fine weather.

Petrol tank has not gone back in the car and I will attack the door hinge this morning and if the weather holds the brakes on each wheel. I still have the servo to fix, my guess is that it is not working.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:15 am

Roy,

I was on holiday with my parents in 1967 on our return from Ghana as my father worked for Cape Coast university at the time. We were in Scotland near kin loch levin and two T20 were parked side by side one blue and one red and have always wanted one. I purchased my in parts, so another job to do.

Yes I built the Ariel myself, I’ll attach a picture hope the forum ok with that. Bike has a single carb and some minor porting changes. But I have a twin carb engine on my bench waiting for new aluminium barrels which I hope to have this month.

I will try and add photo.

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:17 am

Roy,

I did not like photo so will try again.

colimp66 · Post by **colimp66** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:51 am

Welcome Dave,
Great to see and here of your exploits with your Imp so far. Keep up with the enthusiasm and posting of photos of your progress.

Loads of info and help on here if you get stuck with anything.

Roy,
here is a few photos of my T20 I used to race in the Scottish classic series.

20200427_140159.jpg

IMAG0018.JPG

Rebuilt and modified a wee whilse ago now before I bought my Imp. Ported barrels with Yamaha crank and Honda CR125 pistons, 32mm carbs, Motoplat ignition and Pro-Flo expansions.
Great wee bike that beat many a more expensive bike .

Cheers
Col.

RoyBlunt · Post by **RoyBlunt** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:17 pm

David & Col,
Fantastic photos. Let's face it - not only have we got excellent taste in cars but also in motorcycles!

At risk of creating much hilarity here's a photo of me with my brand new T20 in 1968. I bought Suzy (my Imp) in 1969 and thus, for about 18 months, owned her and the T20 together but don't have any photos of them together.

1968_T20.jpg

Roy

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:42 pm

Col and Ron,

Really nice pictures I know the gentleman that is making my new aluminium barrels has worked on a lot of Suzuki’s and Ariels in the past. Guy is called Ron and runs a company called Fahron in Nottingham.

My T20 has a lot work before I can get it back on the road. I have just about all of the just a few items missing. Will keep me busy in the winter months. I have new barrels for it, which I found one barrel in the uk and the in the States.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:46 pm

Roy,

Are you based in Scotland. I worked in the oil industry for a while or at least for a manufacturer who made comma systems for oil rigs a similar industries.

I spent some time in and out of Aberdeen for about four years.

DS

RoyBlunt · Post by **RoyBlunt** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:00 pm

David,

No - miles away from you. I'm in Cwmbran, South Wales. Hopefully will be up in Scotland for Ecosse 2022. Ron Phillips of Fahron has an excellent reputation for 2-stroke work - although I only look on from afar – haven’t owned a motorcycle since 1971. I presume that you are familiar with www.t20suzuki.com - plenty of good stuff on there.

These days, as far as classics go, I’ve just got my Imp (a very well-known car in the club – it was also the test drive car in the Imp Car SOS episode) and a 1981 registered Spitfire 1500. Too much else to do (and no more room) to add to those.....

Roy

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:12 pm

Roy,

Yes I know of the T20 and the gentleman has help me in the past with information.

I also have a 1963 triumph Bonneville which I have had since 1974 both the wife and I went to the1975 TT as an apprentice friend was racing a bmw outfit which was fitted with a 500cc motor and 998cc motor so that he could race in both formulas.

I worked in Cape Town for a while for Motorola and bought a 1974 TR6 which I shipped back to the uk when the contract ended. I sold the TR 6 in 2011 big mistake I should have kept it. But like a lot of folks I’m running out of room.

Just a work history note, I went from electrical engineering department at IC, as I was offered a job as a kind mechanical/electrical technician ERA in Leatherhead. Three microwave engineers went from the electrical engineering department and were offered research positions and they called me and asked if I wanted a job, so I said yes. I spent the next few year making microwave equipment for these gentleman.

Around 1981 I joined the Royal Navy.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:19 pm

Roy,

Yes, I know of the T20 web site the gentleman has helped I the past with information.

I have text out now for the third time so will this note short.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:26 pm

Roy,

Didn’t realise I have moved on to a new page.

DS

ImpManiac · Post by **ImpManiac** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:56 pm

David Sage wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:01 pmWhere department were you at during you stay at imperial.

Mechanical Engineering. My doctorate is in combustion. Do you remember Prof Lockwood? I was with his research group.

IM

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:48 pm

Paul,

I only worked in the mechanical engineering for six months at the end of 1968 and beginning of 1969.
I then moved to the electrical engineering department with another apprentice who had been with me in mech eng. he and I made professor Laithwaite’s first mag lev device.

Lots of fun and hard work with thousands of components but a real treat to see it operated by the prof and his assistant whose name I can’t recall.I spent five years or more as an apprentice and then worked in the electrical engineering department. I was working as a mech eng lab tech and was I encouraged by the professor to go back to tech college and take electrical engineering as a new career.

The phd students also encouraged me to change.

I perhaps would have remained at the college but it didn’t turn out that way.

DS

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:01 pm

Slave cylinder arrived over last couple of days and 4 hoses but the the long ways from front to back.

I was reminded, I ran pipes from the heater through the inside of the car on my first imp kept my hands warm in the winter.

I’ll try couple of photos.

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:02 pm

Well the thermostat arrived with a new gasket, so now with new hoses and slave cylinder I attack the Sunbeam.

I finally get all the old hoses off with the help of mr. Dremel but most of them can off ok.

The hoses arrived without clips, so i rush to the local euro parts and they weren’t much help so then on to Halfords where they have an array of clips which are not meant for hoses. I finally find the correct sort and rush back home.

So I have lots of parts to fit and I question myself on how to go about this. Thermostat followed by clutch slave cylinder and then the hose from the back of the radiator to the thermostat housing.

I place the thermostat housing over the two studs at the rear of the engine as you look from the rear of the car and I find the bottom stud missing. A real disappointment but there’s no way round it the head has to come off.

So now the heads off and on the bench, looking very sorry for itself as one stud is missing and the bent.

When I collected the car I picked up three blocks with two cylinder head on is a mk1 the other Mk2, so will star work on the mk2 head and at same try and remove broken stud and ease old stud back to square.

David Sage · Post by **David Sage** » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:04 pm

Must check twice before posting.

A couple of errors - sorry

Bobbycham · Post by **Bobbycham** » Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:15 pm

Don't forget David , Imp screw threads are UNF,
Good luck with removing broken studs , loads of customers bring me items with broken studs which they have already butchered trying to remove , then give in, and bring it to the experts, nothing quite so good as clamping to mill and removing studs by having cutters directly in line of original threaded hole.

Don't have to say sorry for anything David , good to see someone new on here full of enthusiasm.

Surprised you managed to find anything at Halfords , i avoid that place like the plague, staff always asking if you need help and when you ask for what you want ,they don't seem to have a clue , or at least it was like that years ago.
Or maybe it was ME.
Bob

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:05 pm

Halfords work on your registration number as to what you need for your car, trouble is anything pre new style reg comes up as "doesn't exist please check again and put in the correct number" , then staff say you must have the wrong number until you say no there's the car look outside, then it's oh it's too old that's why we don't stock anything for it.

Halfords way over priced on everything anyway, you can get the same oil for instance in the same packaging at Wilko for 1/3 of their prices.