The Vusky. Clutch , H orrible bracket change

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:10 pm

Back to the clutch judder
full scenario is this so far
Original clutch down to rivets with pulling away judder
Fit new everything inc. the new box as the original has a clunky dif.
Judder far worst as it now does it on down change as well as pulling away
New box difficult to get reverse and first
Hoof the lot out - find the new clutch is contaminated - hence the down change judder - whole new clutch again plus old box back in
Back to just juddering only when pulling away . well not so much a judder - more of a one second pulse as you pull away

So the only common part is the box - new mounts tried - no difference
Any ideas ------ ANYONE !!!!!

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:49 am

Took the heap to Haynes this morning . Met up with Drew Thomas who took it for a run out to try the clutch.
He seems a confused by it all as well

It also seems ive got a headlight gone as well
Great to see the Scimitar of Drews - stunning motor

Ive seriously had enough of this thing

oli · Post by **oli** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:30 pm

Have you checked / measured / refaced / weighed - balanced the flywheel? Seems to be the one item that you haven't mentioned, and as the previous clutch was down to the rivets...

Spigot bush / bearing changed in the crankshaft?

ImpManiac · Post by **ImpManiac** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm

Hmmm. Although the flywheel is new and balanced, it may still be the culprit. I have enormous respect for Colin Cashmore but it may still be worthwhile, next time it is all apart, measuring up the flywheel and getting its balance checked. If practically everything else has been eliminated - already replaced or ruled out - then could it not be the flywheel?

Just a thought and no offence meant to anyone.

I too am a huge fan of the Vusky, Dave! It's one of my favourite Imp-related vehicles.

IM

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:32 pm

Just caught up on this post dave , i had a 930 fitted years ago with the flywheel having an insert in it all was good for a few months then it started ti judder , when i got a steel flywheel problem solved and i was still running the same clutch and pressure plate , has your fly wheel got the insert which was originally a 930 flywheel

col

moose · Post by **moose** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:30 am

the flywheel is newly made, so with out questioning any persons skills is it on the crank square? Is it correctly made check with a DTi. It has to be a long way out of being dynamically balanced to get clutch judder, you can fit any crank to any flywheel in any engine and you will not have a problem based on factory tolerance for dynamic balancing on old engines. If you have a burr on the crank to flywheel face of say 5 thou it will be noticeable, check flywheel face to crank spotless check crank mating face is spotless check bolt holes on crank if they have not been counter sunk the first thread can get pulled away from crank face and create a lip, make sure the dowel is clean and will allow flywheel to sit flat to crank. Have you checked slave cylinder for leaks? As can happen when you are having a bad time something obscure comes along to mess with your head, clutch slave brand new x amount of time a go was not leaking when you first looked at clutch, parts on and off the car and you are happy all new and clean it is at that point the slave decides to drop some fluid onto the clutch, the law of sod! As for the bad back try turmeric tablets takes about a month to notice any difference but works for me better than ibuprofen taken just when it hurts too much.

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:59 pm

Been to the Docs - i have sciatica - no fitting clutches for me

ImpManiac · Post by **ImpManiac** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:45 pm

My mother-in-law has sciatica. It is very painful for her. So I sympathise!

Take it easy, Dave. Is there a treatment plan? For the sciatica - not the Vusky?

You are right; health comes first and clutch replacement can wait.

IM

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:29 pm

Just fired up the Vusky .
At clutch biting point the engine rocks / vibrates like mad shaking the whole thing
it has ruled out wheel bearings and probably the driveshafts as i did this with the handbrake rammed on and the front wheels chocked - no forward motion.
Verdict = its fooked

i think il break the *no expletives please* thing up and be done with it - well thats how i feel right now anyway

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:39 pm

In a frantic " lets just rip the feckin thing to bits " kind of way and dosed up to the armpits in pain killers Ive ripped the engine and box out in 1 hour 40 minutes .
There isnt ----
Any contamination , driven plate is dry .
Spigot bush is fine , flywheel centre is dry so nothing getting through the flywheel bolts or leaking out the spigot bush .
Pressure plate surface looks fine - centre has no play or rattly fingers fitted or not fitted .
There is ----
A distinct mark where it looks like the driven plate is grabbing the flywheel .
The clips that hold the thrust bearing in were no longer on the arm= and although there was a slight rattle the slave does hold it in place - il reserve judgement as to wether this is the cause or not - after all the springs dont exactly hold it tight . I found one behind the flywheel

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:53 pm

Nor me. Ditto the driven plate. The cover plate looks like the flywheel face should look. Something ain't straight, or it's contaminated.

Andy G

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:55 pm

I'd start with a vernier caliper or micrometer on the clutch plate.

Andy G

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:13 pm

logic says if the pressure plate contact surface looks fine and the flywheel one does not then - A The driven plate must be ok on one side at least and B the flywheel might be at fault or the driven plate is wonky on the flywheel side - im clutching at straws now ( get it )

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:16 pm

Hmm. But the clutch plate has funny marks both sides, unless that is heat generated ?

Andy G

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:50 pm

Is there something wrong with the pressure plate holding down bolt hole at the 2 o clock position on your photo, looks sort of mangled? Or is it dirt? If the pressure plate isn't down flush would that cause the problem.

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:24 pm

Is your friction plate an original part or a refurbished one, did you check theres no play in the rivets holding the splined hub to the centre and friction material to the metal, Im thinking if it is a refurb and they removed the original rivets the holes might be slightly enlarged and theres a bit of play when power is being taken up.

Then you friction material looks different to mine, heres a piccy of the one removed from mine, it is worn but the material looks different to yours?

001.JPG

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:47 pm

/\ Hence my suggestion to measure it up.

Andy G

tiker · Post by **tiker** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:52 pm

Hi Dave is the flywheel smooth,has any clutch material been deposited on the flywheel at 3 o'clock?
It may not be of any help now but the only way to get the flywheel running perfect is to skim it on a lathe bolted to the crankshaft between centers, but there's clearance in the clutch plate spine's to allow for some tolerance it's bafflingly me why it's not working can see why your p*** off with it

bks974c · Post by **bks974c** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:17 pm

Dave

Can you post a pic of the bearing surface of the clutch cover, the clip missing may not have helped causing an uneven pressure on the cover.

Did you loctite the cover bolts ? the mark on the flywheel are adjacent to a bolt hole with "stuff " if the loctite has gone off before you had got them all evenly torqued the cover would not be sitting square.

I'm sure most of us have seen the cover "wobble" as its tightened, the other possibility would be if there were any high/tight spots around the dowels or cover holes or a poor thread in the flywheel giving a false torque reading.

Scott

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:18 am

just noticed the balancing holes are exactly opposite the mark where the clutch plate seems to be catching

moose · Post by **moose** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:53 am

Noddy get yourself some turmeric tablets ! they work for my back. If you want a proper quality brand new spinner plate get in touch https://photos.app.goo.gl/WCRkKIYrtGWTcR8G3

forget the loctite pm me your address and i will send you some proper schnorr locking washers https://www.schnorr-group.com/en/produc ... y-washers/

release bearing springs i lock wire in place, https://photos.app.goo.gl/KC1JwXJuEZ9ZnWx83 check the flywheel is flat with a 12 inch rule and torch, looks to me that either spinner plate is warped looks like high spots on it and 300 miles should be bedded in, or flywheel is not flat.

let me know if i can help

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:51 am

Theres two types of thrust bearing holding clips, some are a bit larger and looser than early ones, the ones I fitted to mine were a right job to get on they were a snug fit and hold the bearing quite firmly in place, Ive seen some as Dave said where once fitted the assembly is quite loose still, good idea about binding wire them in to secure just in case but if you find the smaller type they dont drop off.

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:55 am

Peter, from information supplied to me on another thread concerning the differing types of clutch release forks, there are later versions using larger clips. You need the correct clip for your particular fork and release bearing combo.

Andy G

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:06 am

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32076

Andy G

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:26 pm

Flywheel run out is 2 thou , the bit that looks like its catching is in fact low not high , putting the dial gauge on the crank by the spigot bearing and double levering the edge of the flywheel gives almost zero dial gauge movement so end float is fine .
I did notice that single levering the flywheel by the low point gives 4 thou movement but i only get 2 thou from any where else , bolt is tight so i might have a false torque setting ( dirt in the thread etc ), il look into this .
So far no real clue as to the cause of this

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:45 pm

Onto the other plates then, Dave. I can't imagine 2 thou would be causing the issue, can you ? Is it OK all over the flywheels contact surface i.e nothing "sticky" that might grab ?

Andy G

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:38 pm

Massive thanks to John A Ross for sending me the flywheel .
On Mike Dents advise I slightly countersunk the bolt holes on it both sides and on the inner side of the dowel peg one ,
Uber cleaned the crank face and both sides of the flywheel mounting surfaces .
Run out is 1/2 thou if that , ive posted a vid on facebook but cant on here.
Whatever is causing any future clutch judder it wont be this , Crank end float is 1/4 thou if that .

colimp66 · Post by **colimp66** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:04 pm

Nice one, be good to see if it changes how the car drives Dave.
Fingers crossed for you.

Cheers
Col.

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:37 pm

I'm glad you've said that : the cover and plate need inspection and measurements too I reckon.

Andy G

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:55 pm

Well hopefully you can sort out the best from that little lot and be job done

I've been converting a late style clutch fork to use with a VW roller release bearing today.

Andy G

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:44 pm

Well a tiny bit of progress on the Vuskys ongoing saga of judder and fail .
Ive fitted the clutch friction plate and cover .
After much thought Ive fitted the Helix clutch from Mike Dent and a NOS Laycock cover , tapped out the flywheel clutch cover threads , cleaned everything with brake and clutch cleaner probably 4 times and put it altogether.
Run out on the cover centre that contacts with the thrust bearing is 19 thou - no idea if thats good , bad or if it matters .

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:07 pm

The current rather depressing view of it this afternoon

ImpManiac · Post by **ImpManiac** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:36 pm

I hope it's ok now, Dave, after a bit of attention.

Even if it's not, there are only so many things that could be wrong with it.

IM

moose · Post by **moose** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:55 am

on thing that can make the clutch pad sit at angle is the cover is not squarely clamped to the flywheel, did you counter sink the holes in the flywheel for the cover ? di you do the same to the cover holes on the flywheel side of it, a small burr here will make the cover twist slightly. I would take it off put it on the floor on some non damaging surface and stand on the pad to operate the springs a couple of times ( easier if you have a press to do it in) then re-fit carefully torquing the bolts up evenly (no loctite just the schnorrs) and see if that trues it up. It could just square itself up after being used in the car but don't take that risk whilst you have it all in bits.

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:41 pm

Got to be OK if it's going up for a million

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:17 pm

Had the afternoon off so Graham Anderson could collect my ailing transaxle .
This morning at work i had to get rid of the scrap and lo and behold a few lengths of 1 inch stainless pipe was by the door so i bought them and spent the afternoon remaking a gear lever linkage , ends are just pressed in ( read bloomin tight ) and roll pined at the moment but il braze them in tomorrow properly

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:42 pm

another bit to polish each week though

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:27 pm

Where's mine ?

Andy G.

Stan

The Nun · Post by **The Nun** » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:41 pm

Mines cadmium plated except where it slides through the nylon fingers there it's well greased doesn't seem the have worn much at all but then it's not done 400000 miles

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:01 pm

I wouldn't be at all surprised, Dave !

And it wouldn't be the only bit about me that's naff at the moment

Andy G

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:03 pm

Stainless gear linkage brazed up today ready for fitting at some point

Temperature required was in excess of 900˚C

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:41 pm

Malcolm Anderson has looked at the gear box and sent the following
Quick summary. A couple of synchro rings 2nd & 3rd, 3rd/4th hub and fork, all worn too close for comfort. Rear bearing very worn. All being replaced some new & some v good used to keep cost down. Thin film old oil/grime stuck to casings although oil was clean. Metal particles were present in the bottom of all casings. Diff will checked tomorrow.

All sounds a bit worn but saveable

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:38 pm

The Vusky LIVES

Massive massive thanks to Graham Anderson and Malcolm Anderson for pulling out all the stops and rebuilding the transaxle and collecting / delivering it .
Ive been for a short drive and guess what
NO FECKIN JUDDER

Because lots has been changed pinpointing the exact cause is difficult but prime candidate was the friction plate - or maybe the flywheel - or even the input shaft .
Whatever its feckin works

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:15 pm

forgot this pic . H/D release arm and springs lock wired in

bazzateer · Post by **bazzateer** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:50 pm

A happy Noddy, nice to see.

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:52 pm

Went for a drive last night - box is slightly noisier but then as Malc said i need to run it in a bit - change is real nice as is the clutch.
Il fit the stainless gearchange at some point and clean / change the nylon guides -
This in theory should be the end of this sorry saga

bazzateer · Post by **bazzateer** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:22 am

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:35 pm

Rebuilt stainless gear lever link bar now fitted on the Vusky , ive not been for a test drive but the gear lever is vertical in neutral and all gears go in no problem .
You can see the last two pics the old one is very worn and it seems to be slightly bent at the lever end , theres wear grooves as well .
Well pleased with the result and if the Singers one is anything to go by the gear change will be super smooth

tiker · Post by **tiker** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:07 am

Hi Dave good news at last if I my ask what have you got clamped on the flexible end to the transaxale,? Is it to make it more rigid?
Regards Gary

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane · Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:28 pm

Been for a ten mile drive - change is a little stiffer than before when its cold but better when warmed up a bit - its all working well with no judder - rebuilt box needs to be run in though so im sure this will just get better and better .
Engine coughed once for some reason - maybe its got a cold or something