National 2023

[impmann]

I haven't seen anything official about the National for 2023, yet. Please can we have an update as to what is going on?

[Uncle Henry]

The shouted whisper is "Perth", Tim.

Many of the Sussex AC have already said it might be too far this time, and will concentrate on Coventry in May instead.

AG

[The Nun]

Might as well be Perth Australia for me then, but obviously those living around that way shouldn't be expected to have to travel south year on year.

[chairman@theimpclub]

Sorry about the lack of info - but I'm not going to offer any firm details until we actually have an agreed and signed contract with the selected venue. Don't blame the organisers - the possible venues have proved somewhat (!!) difficult to deal with.

Roy Blunt
Chairman - The Imp Club

[impmann]

Thanks Roy.

I think if it is Perth that will rule us out - just the cost of fuel to get us there will make it prohibitively expensive, as thats an 800mile round trip without doing anything once we are there (which would be a bit of a waste after going all that way). I appreciate our Scottish friends have all done similar journeys in the past but the World was a very different place a year or two ago, financially speaking...

I'm not going to publish my thoughts on camping next to the Eastern Bypass in Central Coventry, as most of them are unpleasant so it looks like we will be doing mainly day trips next year. Ben will be very disappointed.

[Uncle Henry]

those living around that way shouldn't be expected to have to travel south year on year.

In years past I have (and always declared that I would) travelled to wherever the National would be held, regardless of distance. However, the previous one held at the racecourse in Perth ended up with a two-storey building used as the "marquee", and it really didn't work. No reflection on the organising team of the time really, but it was less than ideal. That aside, as Tim has said, the shear cost of fuel plus the need to split the distance in two, there and back, and additional cost of the overnight stays/extra days involved therefore is pushing the envelope a bit too far. It could do with being held in the Midlands to be fair to all, but that's probably impractical now. Shame, as we all like to go to the jewel-in-the-crown event.

UH

[John A Ross]

Common sense would dictate a straw poll of attendees who would travel to indicate if the event is viable then ?

Unfortunate truth is I believe the membership majority resides in lower 1/3 of the country ?? as a whole and as attendence goes to lose 1/3 or more of attendees would be tragic for a "national event"

Something that should be fed back to the organisers before things progress to far as regardless of attendees the venue and support amenities will cost same regardless (maybe more when time comes around) so always time to put on the brakes to avoid a loss.

Far too much work goes into these events for it not to be well attended

With same economic constraints (or worse) same will almost certainly be true for Imp Ecosse as well.

[jetmech]

I hope members will continue to support a national that moves around the UK, rather than a southern based event. Living in East Anglia, it’s often easier to travel north rather than south or west. I understand the economic problems we are all suffering are bound to have an impact though.

Simon.

[phatbob]

I believe the membership majority resides in lower 1/3 of the country ??

Depends what you mean by "the Country". Coventry is nicely central for England, but if you mean The UK, then the most centraly located National weekends were Preston, Thornton Hough and Capesthorn Hall!

The Imp60 event will be in Coventry in any case.

Don't forget, we have Scottish cars, so it makes sense to have landmark anniversary events in Scotland, so long as there are volunteers there to organise it.

The location for National weekends depends on where those who've volunteered to organise it choose to have it. That will inevitably be local to the team of volunteers. Any suggestion that "the committee" can order the National weekend to be in any location is nonsense. The committee are themselves a group of elected volunteers, not some centralised self-sustaining polit bureau with God like powers over the club's destiny! They have enough to do already and can't organise the National as well. A separate team local to the venue are needed to do that.

I for one love the fact that the National weekend moves around and one gets to explore new places every year. Okay, some times it's an hour away and sometimes it'll take all day to get there, which is a PITA. Cest la vie.

It's public knowledge that if there were one National weekend venue that I PERSONALLY would not choose to use again, it's Perth racecourse. That's my opinion based on my own experience. However, if we're going back there, I'll be going as I wouldn't want to miss seeing everybody again. Again, cest la vie.

[Uncle Henry]

Agreed. On all points. Unfortunately, in general terms, I'd suggest that the average age of Imp owners is getting ever more older, so a full days travel is no longer always possible. I drove from the Sterling National back home to Crawley in West Sussex in one hit (save for fuel stops and comfort breaks), in around 8 and 1/4 hours. I was a great deal younger then, and a number of speed limits would have been ignored in order to achieve it. Even then it was a trial, and I had a sore head for a few days afterwards ! I just couldn't do it these days, so a half way stop overnight would be necessary, both ways. In order to do the full fat National would require a Wednesday to Tuesday time-out, and fuel and accommodation costs on top of the inherent cost of attending will be a big ask.

Just my observations from way down south (others in our AC are even further away). It may have to be "Coventry or Bust" for us.

AG

[John A Ross]

Sorry Bob

Did I strike some kind of nerve or step over a line ? If so let me know please and I will be happy delete the post and comments.

My only point was effectively if on economic grounds there is a large contingent of national regulars who are not prepared to travel due to the distance / locatiion as intimated by regularsd Andy and Tim then it would be in order to advise the organisers as such for an event of this size as expected numbers factor into the planning at an early stage.

Comment wise, this was simply that if economic constraints due to distance (cant blame fuel really, I worked that one out) start to dictate attendance then regardless of sharing the love around the country (and I do mean the whole country) it would make sense to air the suibject of keeping loactions within a more central area ? no ? but of course you are right, its down to whoever volnteers to make it happen, its just a shame that it might impact the event attendance itself as indicated by Andy and Tim.

I honestly have no issues with where it is one way or another

[John A Ross]

Andy

I feel your pain, I cant get 30 miles to Edinburgh without looking for a rest stop and although it makes me smile its not really all that funny.

Driving distance in the imp I find harder and harder work every year despite thoroughly enjoying it. Last couple of shows that were not that far away, took me a day to recover

Average age and abilities to travel ae actually a more pressing concern rather than economic as we would most likely just pay extra for something we would enjoy

I seem to have caused irritation so I will leave discussions to the national regulars now

[phatbob]

Sorry Bob

Did I strike some kind of nerve or step over a line ? If so let me know please and I will be happy delete the post and comments.

My only point was effectively if on economic grounds there is a large contingent of national regulars who are not prepared to travel due to the distance / locatiion as intimated by regularsd Andy and Tim then it would be in order to advise the organisers as such for an event of this size as expected numbers factor into the planning at an early stage.

Comment wise, this was simply that if economic constraints due to distance (cant blame fuel really, I worked that one out) start to dictate attendance then regardless of sharing the love around the country (and I do mean the whole country) it would make sense to air the suibject of keeping loactions within a more central area ? no ? but of course you are right, its down to whoever volnteers to make it happen, its just a shame that it might impact the event attendance itself as indicated by Andy and Tim.

I honestly have no issues with where it is one way or another

Sorry John,
No appology required mate. That was a bit of a rant now I read it back. I have a bit of a personal issue from when I was on the committee and a certain vociferous small group were always bleating about the National needing to be in the midlands so as to be "close to everybody" (i.e. them).
I think you accidently triggered a traumatic flashback. LOL
Anyway, those days are thankfully over.

If folk are looking at breaking their journeys North and are concerned about the cost of extra overnight stops, would anybody like me to look into getting a deal somewhere in the Warrington area? Maybe a campsite? We have a member in the Cheshire area centre who runs a campsite!
Or haggle deal from an independent hotel / B&B etc?

As I said earlier, we are pretty much smack in the middle of the UK.

Best regards,
Bob.

[John A Ross]

Bob

Fair enough, I knew I hit a nerve I just could not for the life of me figure it out, thanks for that, glad its all good

For IMP60 we had already planned a stop over with the two cars Manchester way most likely as I know the drive will be hard work, fuel cost wise its an increase of £38 per car between two of us assuming it stays similar to now. We want both our 63 cars there so the additional cost wont stop us, we will just need to split the journey. No idea how much the stay will cost but there is always a decent B&B somewhere.

Unofficially I believe Perth Racecourse is planned, it was on, then off, then Stirling Rugby club explored (which would have been great for me as I could push both cars to the club ! almost) then its back to Perth as I understand it.

Stirling has loads of great B&B around the outskirts for folks travelling early and not expensive and we could have offered space to store trailers and things just round corner in yard for free rather than take up a pitch.

If folks wanted to do that and just drive the imp from Stirling to Perth thats still possible but we would need to wait for the offical word.

No idea why Stirling Club fell through but I suspect it was due to all the investment that went into the playing fields, they stopped hosting events after that years ago including two big regular local music events and never seen anything there since.

I am sure if folks needed a stop, whoever is local to the way point can point direction of some good digs or even just a few hours respite.

If anyone is heading up and wants to stop over locally the day before around Stirling, we would be ahppy to help out finding digs etc.

[impmann]

I re-read my post... and referring back to Bob's post about the "Midlands National Lobby"... I for one do not object normally to distances (having driven an Imp to Budapest and back, I could hardly be accused of that) and I always hated the idea of the National being always in the Midlands...

But... and its a big but....

I do wonder why the Birthday bash, celebrating the launch of the car is in Coventry (yes, Rootes were based in Coventry but the Imp most certainly *wasn't*) when it should be in Scotland and based around the area the car was built.

Then the National weekend could be slightly further South so as not to alienate so many folks who are genuinely feeling the pinch right now based on the current state of the country.

If they are still farting about regarding a booking, perhaps this is an opportunity - as a badly attended National means costs to the club and we've seen this previously (and not just when they've been North...).

As they say... tweak and adjust is key.

[Uncle Henry]

(yes, Rootes were based in Coventry but the Imp most certainly *wasn't*
)

Machining was I believe.

I see your point, Tim. Probably too late now though, as Coventry is booked as far as I'm aware. I think the problem here is all down to the current circumstances. Financial constraints being a very big factor, aging membership an additional thorn. For many people this coming year or two is going to prove to be a fine balancing act, and at other times "holidays" and hobbies have been among the first to have the belt tightened. Followed by vehicle repairs and servicing. I dont envy those trying to bring a National meeting together.

AG

[impmann]

Machining - some and some. But you get my point - the *factory* was in Scotland... and HRH Phil the Bubble opened the Linwood Factory in Scotland to make the Hillman Imp... etc etc. Parts of the Imp were made all over the place but the association is with Linwood - not Coventry. The Rootes empire started in Hawkhurst, Kent (the shop is actually still there) but equally... you get my point.

I understand the Rugby club has been booked for Coventry and that plans are in place for the event. It just feels like a missed opportunity - bearing in mind the significance of the 60th birthday *year*, it would have been a better idea to have had something a little more accessible. And bearing in mind that nothing has been booked so far for National, perhaps it would be an idea to tweak and adjust.

[bks974c]

I understand the Rugby club has been booked for Coventry and that plans are in place for the event. It just feels like a missed opportunity - bearing in mind the significance of the 60th birthday *year*, it would have been a better idea to have had something a little more accessible. And bearing in mind that nothing has been booked so far for National, perhaps it would be an idea to tweak and adjust.

"If they are still farting about regarding a booking, perhaps this is an opportunity - as a badly attended National means costs to the club and we've seen this previously (and not just when they've been North...)."

Tim

Not sure where you getting your information from but the characterisation that people are farting about couldn't be further from the truth.

There was no-one coming forward to organise 2023 National despite having 3 years to think about it and repeated appeals from the committee until Gordon Ritchie stepped forward and offered to see if the Scottish Area Centres could organise something if they wasn't any others willing. I think they bit his hand off .

There was no plan in place and no hitting the ground running, Perth Racecourse was on the radar as we had used it in 2013 but initially we couldn't agree terms, various other venues were explored but couldn't meet our needs, currently I believe just waiting on dotting the i's and crossing the t's so no farting about. Yes we would have like to be further down the road at this point but not within our control -"tweak and adjust"

As for the idea that you can just up and organise a National elsewhere, I ask who's going to be organising it. It's no wonder people get pissed off doing their best for the Club, some are too ready to criticise and slow to help. I don't miss the significance of the distance and costs involved but in reality there wasn't another option, we might have smaller numbers attending as a result but far better than no National which was looking likely.

Scott

[Uncle Henry]

Hey Scott. I think you're mis-reading the intent here. I'm sure the "farting about" was meant a little tongue in cheek, and not as a criticism. Usually, I believe, (at least pre-covid) the next National is announced at the then current one. Obviously that hasn't happened "officially ", and the thread was started in order by someone enquiring where it was to be held. Rightly or wrongly nobody seems prepared to say what's going on behind the scenes, and this "vacuum" comes across as "nothing is going on behind the scenes". In most cases, this is FAR from the truth. The fact remains, however, that nobody is being informed. It doesn't take long to write an update, does it. And this would prevent those such as your good self from getting cross at comments seemingly whinging, and getting their wires crossed. If everytime a meeting or conversation had occurred somebody was charged with posting the latest news, everyone interested would be fully informed.

AG

[bks974c]

Andy

I only know what I know as spoke to Gordon at our Christmas lunch on Sunday, he is as frustrated as everyone else the venue is not sown up yet, then we can get moving on getting the rest in place. He had hoped to have details in Jan Impressions.

It was announced at Alton that the National would be in Scotland the venue was uncertain as it had not yet been arranged. Unfortunately getting a suitable venue has been a pain meaning there has been no information to pass on, rest assured that once thing are confirmed there will be regular updates. In the meanwhile I hope the previous message fills in the vacuum even if only a little.

Scott

[moose]

I haven't seen anything official about the National for 2023, yet. Please can we have an update as to what is going on?

Sorry about the lack of info - but I'm not going to offer any firm details until we actually have an agreed and signed contract with the selected venue. Don't blame the organisers - the possible venues have proved somewhat (!!) difficult to deal with.

Roy Blunt
Chairman - The Imp Club


To me that is the end of the thread ! Patience people. As always a club is run by volunteers and you do not need to be a full time committee member to offer help to make things happen for you and the club, just offer some help in any shape or form.

[impmann]

I understand the Rugby club has been booked for Coventry and that plans are in place for the event. It just feels like a missed opportunity - bearing in mind the significance of the 60th birthday *year*, it would have been a better idea to have had something a little more accessible. And bearing in mind that nothing has been booked so far for National, perhaps it would be an idea to tweak and adjust.

"If they are still farting about regarding a booking, perhaps this is an opportunity - as a badly attended National means costs to the club and we've seen this previously (and not just when they've been North...)."

Tim

Not sure where you getting your information from but the characterisation that people are farting about couldn't be further from the truth.

There was no-one coming forward to organise 2023 National despite having 3 years to think about it and repeated appeals from the committee until Gordon Ritchie stepped forward and offered to see if the Scottish Area Centres could organise something if they wasn't any others willing. I think they bit his hand off .

There was no plan in place and no hitting the ground running, Perth Racecourse was on the radar as we had used it in 2013 but initially we couldn't agree terms, various other venues were explored but couldn't meet our needs, currently I believe just waiting on dotting the i's and crossing the t's so no farting about. Yes we would have like to be further down the road at this point but not within our control -"tweak and adjust"

As for the idea that you can just up and organise a National elsewhere, I ask who's going to be organising it. It's no wonder people get pissed off doing their best for the Club, some are too ready to criticise and slow to help. I don't miss the significance of the distance and costs involved but in reality there wasn't another option, we might have smaller numbers attending as a result but far better than no National which was looking likely.

Scott

Scott,

If my comments have offended - apologies. Not intentional.

I was implying that *the venue* were messing us around, not that there was a lack of action.

I also fully understand the need for folks to be able to organise Nationals and that we are all volunteers. My point was that *if* nothing was carved in stone as yet it could be an opportunity...

Ready to criticise but slow to help... I get that, and having been doing this a while and been a previous committee member I totally understand the criticism piece (often from within) but equally if we are all afraid of expressing our opinions or offering suggestions for fear of upsetting folks places like this die off... (and we all know traffic here plummeted a while back - I've only recently ventured back). And so sometimes that "help" can be suggesting things that may not be obvious to those 'at the coalface'. Its not helped by the written word often causing more problems than having a face to face or a phone call.

Fact is, I'm sure folks will attend - especially those with decent disposable incomes, those that are retired and can take a few days either side etc but those of us that don't fall into those categories should still be able to voice on here.

Like I said, the intention was not to offend or piss anyone off - so I'm outta here again.

Peace.

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Its nigh on 500 miles each way for us - so thats 1000 miles just there and back , theres fuel costs , food , the cost of a hotel / B & B Plus spending money . whilst ive no worries either Imp will make it im not sure i would

[Uncle Henry]

Google maps says 497 miles from home to Perth racecourse, 8.25 hours (that's a bit speculative and a best case scenario. No comfort breaks, no traffic hold ups, no refueling). Difficult decisions to be made, me thinks. More likely 12 to 14 hours if done in one hit. £135 in fuel each way, plus whatever is used at the event. Premier Inn halfway approx £65 each way, makes it £400 before camping/entry costs or B & B and sustenance whilst there and getting there.


AG

[bks974c]

Andy

If you come I'll buy you a pint that's surely got to make it worth while

Scott

[Uncle Henry]

Well......

Tempting.


AG

[RGWM]

Now posted on Facebook that its Perth racecourse, 3rd to the 7th August.......

Apparently also in the next Impressions, which some people have already received?

[colin rooney]

I have read all the thread and for me i can see every ones point and us all getting a bit older we may not get to the next 1 so my plan is , to make it me yearly holiday and have a week off ,i just hope to see as many old friends there as possible
col

[keanej]

Given the number of rail enthusiasts in the club I could see a solution involving the charter one of those class 50 diesel engines, couple of carriages, car transporters, pickups from South East, South West, Midlands then somewhere north of England before dropping off in Perth.

I do wonder if there are platforms still available that would allow cars to load onto a transporter, or if the transporters still exist.

Maybe I'll stick to the Moho and trailer.

[phatbob]

Given the number of rail enthusiasts in the club I could see a solution involving the charter one of those class 50 diesel engines, couple of carriages, car transporters, pickups from South East, South West, Midlands then somewhere north of England before dropping off in Perth.

I do wonder if there are platforms still available that would allow cars to load onto a transporter, or if the transporters still exist.

Maybe I'll stick to the Moho and trailer.

Sorry John, all the infrastructure for Motorail, as it was called, is long gone.
A victim of privitisation of our railways about 25 years ago.

[John A Ross]

Given the number of rail enthusiasts in the club I could see a solution involving the charter one of those class 50 diesel engines, couple of carriages, car transporters, pickups from South East, South West, Midlands then somewhere north of England before dropping off in Perth.

I do wonder if there are platforms still available that would allow cars to load onto a transporter, or if the transporters still exist.

Maybe I'll stick to the Moho and trailer.

You brought back memories on that one for me John. One of the Motorail terminals was in Stirling.

Not a big train fan but still remember seeing the cars when the trains passed by

https://www.railforums.co.uk/proxy.php? ... 0c4d8d8f61

[daysineuropa]

If anybody wants a stopoff in Dumfries and Galloway (75 minutes from Carlisle), let us know and we will get you sorted out. Cottages at discount rate or camping with no services. Will do what we can to help boost numbers for National.

[moose]

Fantastic offer. I do think Col Rooney has the right Idea to make a holiday out of it. If you are coming from a long way south yes it is expensive for a weekend but make a week out of it and actually use it as your UK holiday makes sense, probably what people from the North and Scotland will have to do for future Nationals that are more southern based. With this National being a big one, 60 years it will be a part of the cars history not just a camping weekend.