Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

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yoeddynz
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Hub of the problem, keyway to succes

Post by yoeddynz »

Baz- I have dropped them to 20 at the front. Heaps better. Might go lower and see if its even nicer. Turn in is still good but certainly slightly heavier steering. However much quieter on the road!

Well now.. its been a few weeks and time for an update. So far the Imp has been reliable and not let us down but it has also been true to its English form and left a few little puddles about. I'll talk about them soon.

We took it on its first big road trip which was fun, although a bit noisy. I couldn't really cane it super fast on the hills because Kevin the cat had to come on the trip with us. It was a few days away to visit my parents so we cant just leave the kid at home...

The car did the trip with no hassles and returned an OK 35mpg, not bad considering its geared quite low, has had heaps of sitting on the spot being tuned and due to the constant annoying flat spot right off idle I had to accelerate faster then I'd normally bother in average driving. It certainly hoons along very very well although it has an exhaust boom right around 60mph, which is around 4000rpm thereabouts. It became a bit too tiresome however should be better now I have added a load of sound insulation on the back parcel shelf.

So anyway.. the wee Imp ran well and got us to Blenheim and back. But before that big trip I wanted to sort a few things. One job was to build a cold air fed filter box and carb lid to let the engine suck on some cooler air rather then the super hot air floating about in the top of the engine bay, due to Imps not having the luxury of lots of cold air running through over the engine.
So I built a filter box, sized to take a modern Honda filter. I have made the box large enough to handle bigger pipes and the volume that might be needed when I plan to upgrade the induction. Box...

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With filter in place...

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This box fitted under the parcel shelf above the gearbox. Sort of out of the way and hidden but easy enough to get to. It was fed with a flexy alloy pipe from under the car. Another section of pipe headed backwards to a plenum/tophat thinggee I made for the carb...

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It was all going so well I thought. I splashed some black paint on it all so it looked a bit neater...

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Then I fitted the tophat to the carb. This is where things went a bit... tight. It seems that I had completely forgotten to measure how much room I had just above in front of the carb. Not enough it turns out :( ....

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The engine lid wasn't able to go back in place! A few choice words that somewhat rymmed with duck and hit along with a sentence that sounded quite similar to 'well you stupid punt' were uttered.

I then calmed down, realised that at least I have now got a filter box sorted for future upgrades and with that I removed the lot and refitted the previous air filter I made.

At least its winter so a bit of hot air cant hurt :-)

I did another couple of jobs before the trip. I swapped out the fuel gauge which wasn't reading correctly for a spare unit I had..

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I was also fed up with trying to adjust the clutch. The slave cylinder fitted had a 7/8" (22mm) bore and being pushed by the standard Imp 5/8" (16mm) master cylinder, which happens to be the same size as what the Datsuns use. However- Datsuns use a smaller 17mm slave to get the correct amount of stroke at the slave. I wasn't getting enough stroke so the clutch pedal and release fork clearences had to be set very tight to clear the gears. But I did have a very light pedal...

So I worked out that the amount of stroke available from the Imp pedal, whilst being very close to that on a Datsun, was not quite enough I could get a good working system with a slave of around 3/4" (19mm). However- there didnt seem to be any slaves available out there that had the same mounting lugs, in 3/4" bore, with a metric fine hose thread.

But I did have some spare random 3/4" seals, some stainless bar for a new piston and a big lump of alloy. So I made a new slave cylinder to suit. I could have sleeved the existing one down and I have a 3/4" reamer to help but I wanted to keep that one intact in case it all went pear shaped. Plus...its more fun making things ! :)

I offset machined the lump of alloy down in the 4 jaw, bored and reamed it to suit, milled the shape up and machined a new piston to suit. But I was having too much fun and forgot to take many photos..


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New next to old...

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It works heaps better! I can now have a bit of slack at the pedal and at the release bearing and still get my gears.

Another job was to take the carb apart for the 14th time. I'm getting very quick at this and can field strip a Hitachi 306 carb in under 15 seconds, blindfolded, with both hands tied behind my back, whilst under water breathing through a straw.

The carb had a few leaks. I realised that the top lid was pulled out of shape...

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I carefully filed it and the body flat, cleaned it out again for the 10th time and made a new thicker gasket to suit...

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On the next test drive the leaks had gone but I had still had not cured the flat spot. So I gave up and made a parcel shelf instead. I did have an original Imp one but it was a bit wobbly and a pain to fit. I made a new wooden one for the passenger side so now actually had somewhere to sit our phones, wallets, bag of Werthers originals, old parking tickets, a broken pen, out of date fuel vouchers and, most importantly, a screwdriver for constantly tweaking the carb settings.

Again, so much fun but no photos. I finished the shelf the morning we set to leave. We plonked Kevin the cat into the car and set off. A lovely trip was had with the only downer being that the cold I had caught at fire brigade practice a few days before was really kicking in to full runny nose time, while the weather was a bit... Wintery. Got to test the wipers out though (must fit intermittant control kit I have)

On the way over to Blenheim. You can spot Kevin.

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I took my Dad out for a hoon in the car. He loved it and only complained about the wipers being in the way of his view. Not a car fault but more down to the fact he must only be about 4'5" tall now...


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Back home and more recently things have happened. I weighed the car at the local tip...


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750kg. The guy said the scales are within 10kg. So its in the ballpark for what I was guessing. A bit heavier then a standard Imp to be expected with a heavier engine, seats, exhaust, radiator and associated cowling, water pipes etc. But still light enough :) I think standard Imps are around 700KG ?

More recently- one of the output shafts on the box leaks. I think it might be the shaft moving out just a touch too much on certain corners and the seal running off the land its meant to seal on. I might have to preload the output shafts. I had set the spacers for the bmw couplings to have pretty much no preload when the car is sitting flat with the full weight on the wheels. Do I need more preload to allow for outwards movement of the axle and if so then how much?

Or the seal land on the shaft is too worn. Or the new seal I had fitted has moved. The car will soon go on the hoist and I'll have a look. Cant really drive it until I sort this. Expensive stuff this oil- even more expensive if its loss means a bother transmission.

In other news I have made a parcel shelf for the drivers side. Now I can stash all my own crap within easy reach ..

I am going to make some speaker boxes to mount under the shelves alongside a headunit. At a later date when I can afford to do so I'll fit an Amp and sub. I do like my music and there is only so much of Datsun A12 at 4000 RPM booming I can cope with so I need to drown it out.

That is about all for now. Wish me luck with my seals...
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun »

He's on here as "tzarrobin" so you can pm him, he's on FB too.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz »

Ahhhh yes- I remember commenting about some driveshafts on a post a few days ago about the new driveshafts on Bryan Fletchers Tikimobile. They'll be the ones you talk of. They look good...

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The thing I had commented on, which as yet has seen no reply, was that with solid driveshafts like that on an Imp you would surely have to run a clutch disc with a sprung centre? Otherwise there would be nothing to take out transmission shock.

I'd get away with it on my Imp because it has a standard Datsun clutch with a sprung centre.

Anyway- I'll contact Robin.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz »

Yeah I'm not one for abusing drivelines and dumping clutches. However I'd still always want something with a bit of give in the drivetrain, like Andy said if only to remove noise.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun »

If you get sudden wheel spin at high revs then it suddenly bites the shock load might break a gearbox?, you could get lots of that off road on uneven ground?
In fact the standard gearbox is quite amazing considering it was designed to cope with the original mark1 Imps 37 bhp, same goes for the doughnuts, folk put many times the power through them expecting them to be ok still at 100 bhp.
In fact with an early mark1 liquorice driveshafts might have been all that was needed :lol:
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz »

I'd love to know how he joined the Rotary to the Imp box. The Mazdas have quite large diameter flywheels. Do you know if the car still exists?

I've owned heaps of Rotaries over the last 17 years and I still really like them, however they are quite chunky in weight.. a bit too much for the rear of an Imp. But certainly it seems that's not put folk off as there have been quite a few Rotor imps created over the years eh.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz »

I'll certainly check that again but i had cleaned the spider end thoroughly with brake cleaner and a tooth brush, let it dry in the sun. There is a slight cavity where the end of the axle doesn't quite sit flush with the outside face of the spider and this I filled with automotive silicone then let set. Is be surprised if its leaked past the splines now.

I think it might well be dripping just onto the spinning spider bolt nuts and getting flicked out from them.

My plan is to clean up the mess, take the car for a good trash and get the oil hot.
Once home put the car on the hoist and drain enough fluid so I can remove the shaft with out it coming out there. I've become adept at this now and it's certainly very easy with a hoist.
Clean and dry around the seal area, put shaft back in, remount axle etc, refill box with still hot oil.

Lower car back end onto steel bench to take weight so shafts sit a they do when it's on the ground.

Make a cup of tea (very important this bit) and watch for leak. I want to see where exactly its coming from.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by 617sqn »

Early type, I believe. Later ones were welded together ?

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz »

Mine are the very late mk3 type. Certainly no welding obvious but what I thought was a very tight machine press fit.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz »

Peter Hurst wrote: A transaxle output shaft seal leaking, in my experience, results in the oil running down the casing and dripping off the bottom of the box with the doughnut staying dry.
You say you have sealed the spider to the spline but again in my experience that's where the transmission oil comes from if it dipping off the doughnut
Peter- I shall have to eat my hat now :-) ....

Update time. Firstly there will be no more juggling around shuffling stuff to get the Imp on the hoist, or having to drive it down the slippery grass drive that heads to the back of the workshop to get it onto the hoist. We have the workshop back after having finished building this cabin on wheels. We delivered it to its new home where the owner will continue with the build , fitting windows, door and lining it out. It was a fun job but took up a big chunk of space. Well until we start the next build. We will have a 8 metre trailer to build for ourselves soon once we sell the housetruck.

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So we could now relax and enjoy the Imp. A few little jobs completed and a fair few miles clocked up. Most important thing to sort out was a leak from the nearside transaxle output shaft. After getting back from the trip to Blenheim it was discovered that oil was coming out from what I thought was the seal and getting spun out off the coupling, marking a perfect line of oil inside the engine bay.

So the car ended up in this position getting its trans fluid drained.

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I removed the shaft, doubled checked the seal land which was fine, checked and tightened the seal by cutting a few mm from its spring because it just didn't feel quite tight enough on the shaft. I also checked the shaft too. Mine is the later shaft being a factory press fit and no nut. I was sure that it fine and solid but just to be sure I cleaned and siliconed the end of the shaft visible from outside. Just in case...

Put it all back together, a few drives and the leak was still there. I took the shaft out again and checked it in the vice. It was indeed loose. Loose enough that it could move in and out slightly and had broken the silicone bond so allowing oil to creep past the splines and out. It must have been getting worse as the oil was essentially lubricating the once tight fit of the splines. Peter... you were correct!

It knocked apart easily, showing the factory O ring fitted before they press them together. Once clean and dry I tried the fit. It was a touch too loose for my liking so out with the JB weld epoxy. It'll never leak again :)

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Yesterday we drove to Nelson and back and I'm happy to report that the leak has stopped ! Yay. Now the only real leak is a dribble from the rear main seal on the engine. I'll change that when I change the worn ring gear in the future.

Another job was to sort out some sounds. I like my music and not having a sounds system in a car on long trips is annoying. I had already eyed up and sussed where I would mount some speakers. It seems a fairly common place after having looked at other setups out there on Imps.

We had scored a JVC headunit from a customer after upgrading their setup. Then we had scored some speakers from a Nissan Bluebird SSS we had been given and passed on but not before robbing its sounds. I also had some ply left over from lining the rear of the Viva wagon floor. So sorted for a cheap as setup.

We made some boxes in the sunshine on what was a cold day....

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Later on the sun hid behind clouds so all three of us moved over to the warmth of the log fire....

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After Hannah covered the boxes in black vinyl I mounted them under the parcel shelves and wired in the head unit, a neat little unit that due to not playing cds is shorter in depth so fitting under the shelf nicely. It all looks neat enough and sounds fine for the size. Just need to find some protective grills to suit those speakers. Next on the list is to get and active sub and mount it under a seat so we can have some fuller, deeper sound.

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Another job I had planned to do but kept being put off was to hinge the front number plate. I don't want to mount it any higher and block the grill so where it is makes for a great driveway crown sweeper. Driving along our 500m long stone driveway in a lowered Imp with an even lower number plate gets tiring!

So I did this...

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I'll report back with whether it also swings back at 170mph so avoiding speed camera tickets.

The other night we had a lovely sunset and the Imp was looking resplendent in the light. I took a photo..

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Next jobs to do are fit some carpet and I'm still really keen on pursuing building a full EFI setup. But its going to be a very busy summer for us so that will have to be a project I pursue in the evenings.

We are heading over to England next week. I'm really hoping to make it along to the Retro-rides gathering. It'll be my 5th one if I do. Quite excited! I do hope there will be some other Imps along but even if not I just know there is going to be a superb selection of awesome cars turn up.

Hopefully see you there.

Alex
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Leaky splines and flappy numbers...

Post by yoeddynz »

I could add an adjustable counterweight that can be changed from the dash. Adjust it to suit the speed zoning one is driving in the most.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Leaky splines and flappy numbers...

Post by yoeddynz »

Well its been a while since I've updated this thread. Mid July was where I last posted up anything of worth. Little Imp got parked up in the corner of the workshop so leaving anough space for our neighbours to make use of the shed while we took off to England for a decent holiday. Hannah got to catch up with her family, we both did heaps of cycling and running, had plenty of sunshine and beer plus I got to go along to the retro-rides gathering 2019! As I always do I had a fantastic time there and came away with boosted Mojo and lots of ideas. Before leaving the UK I ordered a few spare parts for the Imp. Thanks so very much to the awesome, very friendly services of Bob who looks after the Imp club spares :-) ....

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We got back to NZ in September, just in time for the start of spring. The Imp was sitting there tucked away, a tiny little puddle of oil under the sump just like a good little English car should have...

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First job was to fit the shiny new lenses. Hannah jumped straight into that, an easy but so very satisfying job to do...

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We then took the steering rack out and fitted the new centre gaitor. Hooray for a rack that holds oil...

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Having decided I was pretty happy with where the temp gauge needle sits once fully warmed up I carefully measured the resistance across the potentiometer I'd been using to adjust it. I then made a little joining lead fitted with a resistor of the same value. This replaced the adjustable item and should be it for the temp gauge. At some point in the future I may well make a new instrument cluster to suit the dash as I rather fancy having a rev counter in a place that I can actually see it ok.

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We have been driving the Imp since getting back to NZ as much as possible. On its first journey out since back I got this pic...

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We've had a few decent trips including a one really neat drive all around the local valley roads and hills, some gravel roads etc. Its so fun to drive. I'm really getting more confident with the handling and how to get the most from it. The engine seems fine and loves a good trashing. The carb is still a bit iffy with that worn out primary spindle still allowing some air to sneak in. I have ordered a new carb from China and will see how it goes. It was cheap enough to try and when I eventually fit injection I can sell the carb on. Whilst out on that really fun drive I got this photo. Shame I only had my phone as the sky was quite moody...

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After lots of driving I checked the plugs. They look fine with what I think looks to be a good colour...

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I thought it better to fit the fire extinguisher I bought before our holiday. It tucks away neatly behind the drivers seat...

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In other news I have been collecting many different parts needed for a conversion to fuel engine management. I just scored another megasquirt one (2.2) ecu plus a full loom and some edis bits - this time from our mate Rob in return for me doing some machining work for him...

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I need to decide on a few bits needed and also in which direction to go for the inlet layout. Maybe Itbs but maybe a plenum with a single tb. I foolishly dillydallied about when there was a full set of cbr900 ITBs on trademe for $55 including injectors and loom and subsequently missed out on them. At the time I wasn't sure about the suitability but for that money I could have made them work. Not sure on ideal throttle size but they were 40mm each which given the Datsun only has 30mm inlet valves I figure they'd have been plenty.
Then I would have had all of the doorts! I'll keep looking...

I'll be using a 36-1 trigger wheel, also supplied by Rob :) Luckily there is ample room to mount it on the back of the main pully.

Both MS1 ecus I now have use the earlier version 2.2 board which don't have built in VR conditioner circuits. I can make a VR conditioner board and use VR sensor, of which I have many.

Or I could use the Edis setup (which has a VR conditioner built in and uses a VR sensor) that came with the MS1, of which I suspect the ECU has been supplied already configured to use. I have never used Edis before. Hmmmm? Its a bit ugly and clunky though. I dont like the quite large ignitor box I'd have to sit somewhere.

Or I can go with a Hall sensor but then I'll have to locate one from a wreckers- but what car? As usual I want to do this conversion as cheaply as possible because its just more satisfying for me that way. In my first few casual searches it seems that they are quite pricey and can be a bit frail or temperamental in use? More research is needed, of which I must say I do find to be one of the most fun parts of modifying! :)

Oh also - I fitted a new speedo cable and now have a speedo needle that doesnt wibble-wobble all over the place. How thoroughly modern!
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Now pondering fuel infection ideas....

Post by 617sqn »

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Now pondering fuel infection ideas....

Post by yoeddynz »

Sweet- cheers. Yeah I have even more room under the shelf further forwards so I'll move it there :-)
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Now pondering fuel infection ideas....

Post by yoeddynz »

So Hannah and I took the Imp for a two day road trip. Part business and part holiday. On Friday we drove up to Lake Rotoiti, Nelson lakes national park. On the way we checked out some old classic cars a fella owns who wants me to do a load of bodywork on. The Imp drove really well. The sun was out and the music cranking (some ambient tunes from David Tipper since you ask). We had a good coffee and then a nice walk on tracks around the lake. That evening we drove through to my olds place in Blenheim. A nice day out. Here's some photos...

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Chilled out at my parents, a feed of fish and chips, wine. A grand way to finish a day. Following morning we set to head home. Filled the Imp up, did some maths and allowing for a very optimistic speedo we reckon on around 40 mpg. Not bad considering the gearing at 100kph. Headed home, sadly into rain as a cold front was moving up the Island. Drove long way via Picton and Queen Charlotte drive because narrow twisty roads and go kart car...

Over the Rai Saddle, sitting with the flow of traffic. I give the car some stick to pass a motorhome up the saddle and then when cruising down the other side the wee car does that thing....

'JOLT!' The car does a small but very noticeable stumble. Like a tiny rev limiter. For those that have tuned megasquirt, or maybe other EFI, it felt like when you click burn.

"What was that?" Hannah asks.

"Shit- I don't know but it felt like an ignition thing, not spluttering fuel thing" I reply.

We both go quiet. I almost want to turn the music down and listen for any untoward mechanical sounds that might be there. But I don't. I'll play it cool. Don't worry. Don't get Hannah worried. It was probably just a...bother... I don't know?. I'll just say nothing, drive a little slower and whatever it was will be a memory soon.

The silence is piercing. Now I notice every bl***y vibration. I'm watching all the gauges like a jet pilot. All the time my mind is going through all possible scenarios. What could that have been. What if we breakdown?

3km pass. It seems ok. I start to relax. Only one big set of hills to go. I pass another rental car, most likely the scurge of the kiwi roads, a Nissan Tiida. I dont know because I'm still having a mini stress..

'JOLT'. Here we go. This is happening. This time its for good. The car dies and I have to quickly think where I'm going to stop to fix it and quick before I slow too much and that silver blob I just passed drives up my bum. I spot a forestry road on the right, coast across to it (whilst trying to make it look like nothing is wrong so saving face for all classic drivers who get the "oh old cars are so unreliable...")

I pull to a stop and the engine splutters to its last road driven rotation with a bang.

bother. Remain calm. Reception on phone? Not a chance. Tool kit in boot comes out and we go through all the obvious things, concluding that it is indeed the ignition. Annoyingly it was the ignition module, of which I didnt have a spare. If it were points I'd have fixed it. Such is life. Luckily the rain had stopped and double lucky that across the road from the forestry road we parked on was a farm house. The kind farmers wife took us in, let us use her phone and fed us tea and biscuits. I called a mate out with his trailer. We have AA membership however its the basic cover that would have got us to a garage. I knew a Garage wasn't going to fix this and we'd still have to get home. Yeah nah. Stuff that.

Mate turns up with his trailer and we have a choice as chilled out trip home. We fed him dinner and it was all good in the end. I only took one photo of the day...
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So that was that. On Sunday I removed the dizzy and then the module. It fails the tests as predicted. Here's the troublesome module...
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Come Monday and at my local wreckers looking for a module. I dont want to spend $120 on a new one when I'm about to fit full engine management.
No luck locally but we were in Nelson on Tuesday and I found one at a wreckers there, cheap too.
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Fitted it that night and brooooooommmmmm :) The replacement was a proper Hitachi module whereas the one that let its smoke out was a no brand cheap one. Even felt lighter if that means anything. I took the broke one apart and it looks like a little cityscape inside- heck it would scare a Barry used to the kettering system...
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I also managed to score a spare couple of dizzies, converted with accuspark. My bench looks like a bomb went off in a hitachi factory...
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I'll need to fix them up, check them out and then I could always have a spare setup in case. That is until I fill the Imp with boxes of electronics and then there's no chance Mr AA man can help me. It'll be like every modern car- useless when broke.

In other news- this turned up from China the day we left for the lakes...
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Its a brand new Hitachi 306 clone, all for not much more then a full carb gasket set costs. I had ordered this before I had scored all the other Megasquirt bits. Anyway- I'm still looking forward to trying it out because my worn out carb is about as good as I can get it. The new one looks so shiny. I'll report back with my findings on how deep the quality goes...
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Now pondering fuel infection ideas....

Post by yoeddynz »

Cheers Andy. Yeah I'm looking forward to having full scale fuel infection. All those little components that could let their smoke out at any time.. Makes for a grand adventure :-)
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. What was that?!!....

Post by yoeddynz »

Imp001 :( :oops: :idea:

I was looking for a poorly looking smilie but that's all I could find.

This is actually the first time I have had to call out a trailer in NZ to get rescued in a classic. The last time I called the AA was for our Nissan Sentra, which funny enough (though not at the time..) had a failed coil.

I ran my Viva with Megasquirt for quite some time until I sold it and it never let me down when out on the road. But I still believe that for outright reliability and a sense of dependability a single carb and points ignition (so long as you have a few spares in the boot) cant be beat. But I don't live in Australia, 100s of km from anywhere so I'm happy 'risking' this new fangdangled modern technology.... I mean it cant be all that bad- all new cars are apparently more reliable then our old cars eh!... :? :roll:
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. What was that?!!....

Post by yoeddynz »

Crikey! Its been over 3 months since I last updated this thread. The reason being I have been busy just enjoying summer and driving the Imp whenever I can. Its such a hoot . I'll use any excuse I can to take it for a hoon. We have now covered over 3500kms since getting it on the road at the end of May last year. Considering we work from home so no commute I was quite surprised at how much its had! Its been incredibly cheap to run (very easy to get over 40mpg while still having a laugh) and is sooooo much fun to trash along on windy roads. The reception we both get whenever either of us uses it for a shopping run etc is fantastic. It really does make people smile- which is nice :-)

A few various friends, some from Oldschool, have also taken it out for a good thrash. Its really interesting seeing how different people drive it, their style, ease with the handling and gear change, confidence. Generally they have all found it super easy to drive and all seemed to love the handling. If only it had another 50 bhp...

I have done a few little jobs here and there to improve it. Back in the last exciting episode I left off with some sexy photos of a new Hitachi carb. I swapped the relevant linkages/cable stops I had made for the previous carb across onto the new one , bolted it in place and hoped for the best. Started the car up but flooded it because the new carb seems to have a more effective choke. Cleared it and started it proper. Straight away I noticed how better the engine sat at idle. I few twiddles of both the throttle stop screw and the idle mixture and I had it running sweet at idle. I then took it for a hoon up the road. WOW- what a difference. No more flat spots, the transition off idle was smooth as, the transition onto the secondaries was smooth. No stumbling when coming to a stop and a super smooth idle. The jerkiness at slow speed in high gear was gone. Overall a huge improvement. Best $120 I'd spent in ages!!

Here's a pic of said wonder carb..

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Next job on the list was to improve the brake pedal feel. They work really well but I would still prefer a firmer pedal. I knew that the original Honda Civic brake hoses on the front were far too long, needlessly long. So that was a good place to start. I ordered a pair of new stainless braided hoses from Nelson brake services, impressed I was with the previous set I had them make for my Viva. $55 each which is a bargain.

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I fitted them and noticed a big improvement in feel. much nicer firmer feel with a better defined bite point on the front. But it can still be better and I think that its possible the brand new Lada master cylinder fitted has a slightly weak seal. If I press hard on the pedal and hold the pressure the pedal will slowly sink. I can also pump the pedal up a bit harder and I have done so many attempts at bleeding it I am pretty sure there is no air in the system. @NickJ ever so kindly sent me a spare set of seals he had. However Nick has warned me that they are from the same vendor he got the master cylinder from, which did come wrapped up in newspaper with these two fellas on the front...

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Interestingly the seals are a odd shape I have not seen before in a brake cylinder. They have a curved edge, like a worn o-ring outer rather than a lip that is forced against the bore like most brake seals I know....

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I thought this was possibly the problem but after some googling it turns out that this master cylinder design and bore diameter is a very commonly used item across many Fiats, ladas and some other brands. So the seal design must work fine in use.

Hannah's mum has come over from Blighty for a holiday and essential sun. So over a few weeks previous to her boarding her plane I kept an eye out on Ebay UK for anything interesting. She ended up bringing this stash of goodies...

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Apart from the very obvious Marmite with proper actual taste I bought a Haynes cutaway book filled with lots of Terry Davey's best pics, plus two old magazines with road tests on Imps- one of which was printed at the release of the Imp and is filled with heaps of articles, photos and fold out pages with extra large exploded diagrams. A total treat for any Imp nerd and one which kept me thoroughly delighted while reading it in the sunshine on coffee breaks...

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Lastly and more recently I have decided to sell on my Viva wagon. I'm not using it and have utterly fallen for the charm of the Imp. I would rather someone else make something of the wagon and what money I get for it can go towards this car (as well as another few projects in mind, and probably pushbike stuff...)

So with that in mind I decided the VIva did not need fancy Recaro seats but the Imp does. The Mx5 seats are ok but not quite as figure hugging as I like, nor do they seem to offer the same lumber support that the Recaros do.

Plus the Recaros just look so damn nice and fit in well with the little nippy go kart like car ethos I like in Imps. I was worried about them being a lot heavier but they only weigh 3kg more each. I can live with that for the comfort they offer!

So I had to add some slightly wider spaced mounting points. Because the mx5 seat mounting points were welded on the back/inside of the box sections before they were welded on the floor I had to instead make up some flanged threaded bosses...

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which I then tigged in place (rather then risk mig splatter everywhere)...

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It was when tigging I remembered the steel was zincalume and made my welding a bit messier then I had hoped as the fumes came through...

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But all good and strong. I shortened the reach adjust levers while I was at it..

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I also had to fix the mountings for one of the plastic covers which no matter what I did with the old push in plastic rivets would always come loose and rattle about . I machined some wee stubs and epoxied them in place...

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This (blurry..) pic dates the seats somewhat... (kids- ask your parents)

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I finally mounted them in proper and they look great. Much better to sit in and they also swing forwards further than the Mx5 seats - which to be fair really were never designed for a car with rear seats were they.

The Recaros have a more suiting mixture of grey and black which suits the interior better I think. However I'll still keep looking for some suitable red leather sports seats much like the ones in my previous Viva for they were the best looking seats I've yet seen, although being slightly wider for 'larger" Alfa Romeo drivers and covered in slippery leather they were in use a little less hugging than these cloth Recaros.

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So that lot takes us up to date. Next on the list is to fit some carpet, now that I seem to have finally sealed the windscreen properly although the car has not seen much rain recently- its been so dry here since the start of December.

I'm still tempted to play with injection. I bought a spare engine for $100 from the local wreckers. Its a 1500 and has the later oval port head. Larger ports and larger valves. We stripped it down together and its pretty good as far as wear goes on the guides etc. Certainly a good head I can clean up and fit without any machining. I have a inlet manifold to suit. However.... I may still yet re-power it with another engine, yet decided on. I do really like the idea of regaining my rear parcel shelf, currently cut to allow the valve cover to go through, because its missed and would be very handy for the weekly shop!

Datto engine in the van after pickup...

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A tiny little tool box a found at the warehouse which was just soooo cute I had to get it...

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Goes here..

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A tiny little trailer we built for some locals kayaks. Had to size it up...

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I sold the race car shell and it headed south to Queenstown on what was a comically huge transporter. Fark I laughed...

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My Imp making other normal cars look huge...

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Finally my parting shot- because well... I just like this photo :-)

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yoeddynz
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Car Model: 1965 Hillman Imp with a Datsun A12 powerhouse.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. New thrones....

Post by yoeddynz »

Well I must say I do love the new Recaro seats. They are so comfy and hold you in place soooo much better in the corners. I had still been using it heaps through summer. Got a shot of it next to an I8. Huge cars!!!...

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What else? We took the Imp over to Blenheim for the big classic car show they have there. Its getting bigger every year and I have kept missing it each time. Not this time though! The weather was a perfect Med like blue sky day and the cars that turned up for the show were a really nice mix of everything. My parents came along too. My dad is 88 and not too fast on his feet having pretty bad lungs now. I was worried he would struggle but I kid you not- he seemed to perk up more every minute and flitted about all the old cars really quite animated. It was great to see and I'm so happy he made it along. Mum loved it too and we met some great people. Pics..

The show..

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Dad pondering if he could have fitted a V10 into his Moris traveller he once had, or maybe the 120y wagon they had...

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Hannah's favourite car of the show (and her dream car)...

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Some sweet old boats there...

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Me next to dad, holding a 8 month old Kelpie puppy(my favourite brand of dog, we used to have one)..

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The Imp (wtf the Toyota Pius was doing there we don't know..)...

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There was actually a car there that made the Imp look huge...

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The Imp was popular, being bright blue and the only one there. Lots of people checking it out all morning. I printed off some photos of the restoration onto a4 sheets and stuck them in a plastic binder with a quick note for each. People I spotted seemed to enjoy the read and I imagine it made for more admiration for the little car that was rescued from a field.

The trip to and from Blenheim was fun and uneventful. The Datsun engine impressed again with its thriftyness by managing 44.8mpg and that was with some spirited motoring too :)

Drove some nice roads near my old home town. Very very dry over there and sadly they still have not had much rain. But fantastic grape season if that's your thing.

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Once back home I decided to put the car up on the hoist and deal to a couple of jobs I have been putting off. Those of you with a good memory may well remember the state of the ring gear. It was worn badly in two locations, 180 degrees apart. This meant that it had a 2 in 4 chance of stopping roughly near one of those spots. It seems that sods law dictated a sliding scale of when it would stop and this scale was linked to how many people are around when I would go to start the engine. Worse if those people were probably of the type that think 'oh that a nice old car but they are very unreliable'. When the time was right the starter would ignore my want for turning over the engine and instead may a horrible loud racket as it wore the ring gear worse. I would have to then sit the car in 4th gear, put my foot out the door and rock the car- so moving the flywheel around just a bit. Then start the car and drive away red faced as the people now watching tut tutted...

Never did it do this on our property btw...

The other thing was that the rear main seal was leaking badly. Bad enough that the clutch was playing up and I'd have to think carefully about where I was to park the car when going to the country club* for fear of meeting those same people again and only going to reinforce their misguided opinions about old cars.

I had the chance to replace the seal when I took the engine out way back at the beginning. But remember who I am - a tight wad who likes to save money and $25 seemed like an awful lot for a seal that 'looked ok'

Silly me.

So out with the engine then. Made easier by using my special custom made bespoke 'Datsun A12 engine cradle'

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Here's the worn ring gear. I drilled it and broke it off.

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Removed the old seal. It was indeed very hard and not very sealy. More like a ceramic ring then a seal..

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The oil had coated the clutch disc..

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Luckily that cleaned up sweet with a load of brake cleaner and was deemed good to use (please refer to note above about tight wad..)

Went to my old workplace, Autofocus in Nelson and used the gas set there to remove the good ring gear from another flywheel that came on the A15 engine I had bought. I then dropped it onto the A12 flywheel...

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With that done the engine was given a quick clean whilst out and slung back in place. Oh but not before making using the opportunity of an empty engine bay to size up a different engine. That however is secret squirrel and will be announced later in the year :)

The Datsun was all plumbed and wired back up. It started straight away and after bleeding the coolant system I took it for a hoon. Clutch feels great and no horrible starter noise roulette...

However..... the bl***y speedo gave up and decided that the needle should reside at around 90 mph. It had been getting ever so more optimistic over the last few months and I had read that the springs can weaken. It doesn't affect the odometer which is mechanically linked to the speedo cable, just the speed reading. Now though, having just fixed some other issues my 'unreliable old car' decided to throw another at me. When I returned home from said hoon the needle decided it would resolutely remain at around 60 mph even when the wee car was stationary.

So this happened...

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I'm so glad that I had added plugs to the wiring birds nest that resides behind the instruments because it made removal much quicker and easier. I took the speedo apart and found this...

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It seems that the sponge sealing which fits between the telltale warning lamps and the speedo face had broken down and crumbled into the speedos magnetic disc area so creating drag. I'm not sure but it was messy in there with lots of friction. Rather then muck about trying to clean it all out I instead pulled the spare speedo head from my stash of Imp parts and fitted that instead. I removed all traces of the old foam, opened my little alladins drawer of various foas and double sided tapes and stuck on some new stuff...

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This lot will be binned in the future as I fully intend to replace the whole cluster with nicer modern gauges (but with a classic style to them) including moving over to an electronic speedo head. Speedo cables and all their wobbles can leave by the back door thank you please.

So since the world has gone a bit weird and we all have extra time I decided that instead of refitting the dash into the car in the poor evening light I would instead do an update. I'll refit it tomorrow. One other job to look at is a rattle from the steering rack. I think I know what it is and I have already stripped and inspected a good spare that I might swap in. Other than that I'll just get back to using the Imp, obviously only for shopping purposes at this point in time. I now have plenty of other tinkering jobs to do and hopefully in the next update there will be some very exciting news :)

* I don't actually belong to a country club. But I do like a spot of lawn bowls....
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Faulty ring peice and leak rear seal

Post by yoeddynz »

Not sure where to begin with this latest update really. I have kept this side project fairly secret squirrel with only a few folk here and there knowing about it. I'm sure others will guess pretty quickly.

I have soooooo much to write and many interesting photos to post up. I was going to hang on for longer because the engine build itself is still a long way from being finished and then I have to chop the Imp about to fit it, build an ecu, intake, exhaust to suit plus many other jobs to make it work. Its going to be a big enough mission to write about it all but I'm pretty confident it'll be interesting enough to make writing about it worthwhile.

Where to start then?

Well.. a long, long time ago I was chatting to a certain Mr Pete Valiant at the Oldschool.co.nz nationals in Banks Peninsular 2018. The subject of my engine dilemma from early on in the restoration came up. Pete had been thinking about it. He had an idea so simple it just seemed like it couldn't possibly work. But it got me very excited and I spent much time on the drive back home from Nats looking over a downloaded workshop manual of 'the engine' trying to nut out how it might work. This process lasted for an entire year, often going on the back burner as other things in life stepped in the way.

Then I found out about an engine up for grabs, sussed out a deal and thanks to a very helpful fella called Neal I ended up with this pallet of goodness turning up in Nelson - the day before NZ went into full lockdown ! ...

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Then the work began. More to come soon :D
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. Engine transplant excitement !

Post by yoeddynz »

So what was this engine that I was so excited about arriving just in time for lock down to begin eh? All carefully placed and tightly wrapped up on a pallet by none other than mr @Threeonthetree and sent down to Nelson in the nick of time. The forklift driver chuckling away after I explained what it was and what car it was going into.

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Just a little glimpse through the plastic. Those magical numbers I had been after for a fair while after having decided to take a chance and just go for it. But finding one of these engines complete, without a massive bike attached, at a price I could afford was proving to be tricky.

We got home, having completed the rounds about Nelson of whatever shops still happened to be open for emergency lockdown supplies. I knew full well that at some point during the next 4 weeks of my of enforced tinkering I would come up to a road block. Something essential would be needed. Something silly and normally easily available. But I didn't care. I would deal with it. I just wanted to get stuck in.

The wraps came off. Oooooh lordy. Its a beaut. But a beaut that was in urgent need of a diet and trim in size...

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So this is what I have bought. A 1991 Honda Goldwing 1500cc flat six :shock: 8)

Now going back in time, way back in around April 2018 when I was restoring my Imp shell a guy named Darkspeed on the Retrorides forum was chatting about engines on my thread. He's had a few Imps and Ginettas over the years and has always been looking at other engines.

He uttered these words .. "I also pondered the Honda Goldwing lump for that mini 911 Vibe"

Now this struck a cord for me. It just seemed right. It was far too interesting for me to not look further into and I did just that. I did lots of research, studied the pictures so carefully on a downloaded workshop manual and had sort of sussed out that it might just be a viable option as a swap. Not for this car but maybe my other shell.

But then he came back with this bit of info...

"I cannot recall why I actually dropped the idea but I suspect that they maybe counterclockers "

Bug-ger! I said. :roll: He was right. Somehow I had completely missed this fact in all my studying. It was indeed, like many Honda engines, a anti clockwise rotating engine. Damn. So I put this idea right out of my mind and continued on with the restoration.

Until, as mentioned in the previous post, Mr Pete Valiant stepped in at the Oldschool nationals. He had been thinking about this and the idea popped into his head of taking a Subaru gearbox from a fwd Leone or Legacy, turning it around 180 degrees and in so doing counteracting the 'anti clockwise' rotation of the Goldwing engine.

Simples! Wow. So this idea played on my mind for the rest of the nationals weekend, I downloaded manuals again, looked over them and schemed. It was not going to be easy and simple though. There were going to be many hurdles. The engine was heavy and quite tall with its built in transmission. There was no bellhousing. Not even a resemblance of one. There was no flywheel and the oil pump was driven by spur gears and a chain that had to go in order to allow for a flywheel. The engine is also a clamshell that once together does not allow any access to the insides without completely taking it apart - so new head gaskets each time and a whole load of work just to get to the oil pump etc. The starter and alternator were integral to the gear system so they wouldn't be viable to keep in place.

But the crank does have a flange to which an adaptor could be added to and bolt a flywheel up to. However I could not easily work out the size of the flange or bolts. It seems to be that these engines just keep reliably going for a long time and when they die not many people rebuild them. Its just cheaper to just swap in another engine. There was/is not a heck of a lot of info out there on them like you might find for other engines. Excluding trikes I could only find two other vehicles that had used a goldwing engine and they both used them with the transmission through a diff. That wasn't going to work in an Imp as it places it too far back and high.

But I was keen on the challenge and wanted to have a go. If I could find a cheap enough engine I could have a crack and if it all went pear shaped I would cut my losses- so long as it entertained me and challenged me.

I needed a cheap engine and had been keeping an eye out for one everywhere. Too expensive to import, too much of a risk to buy a complete non running bike. Then one popped up in Auckland and it was fitted in an Imp of all places!!!! Wtf Turns out that a fellow kiwi Imper had bought a Imp race car project that was built some 20 years ago or so. I don't think they ever got it racing. He had bought it for the shell mainly. It utilised the entire Goldwing setup, like the other two cars I had found and ran the power through a Holden ( I think) diffhead along with the Goldwing electric reverse. It was indeed mounted really far back and quite high on a pretty lacklustre framework of angle iron, hopes and dreams.

But it was there, complete and really low mileage. I heard it running, it sounded mean and I wanted it. We set on a price of $500 and Neal kindly sorted out getting it down to me. So that is where this pallet of goodness comes in. Now to see what I had bought and let myself in for!....

Carbs had been removed by Neal so they couldn't get damaged...

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There was this plastic board with a very carefully laid out Goldwing engine electrical system complete...

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There was a book too. Very handy. This would make for great on the throne reading...

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So this engine complete with transmission, starter, alternator, carbs is around 126kg which was a bit too chunky to risk lifting between us both. I lifted it out with the engine crane plonked it on the big steel bench and removed the exhaust manifolds, inlet manifold. Still too much engine...

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I removed the starter, alternator. Looking better already for sure but there no doubt about it- this engine was going to go on a intensive weight loss course!

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I was already enjoying this new project and looking forward to the next step.

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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

johnh875 wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:47 am Oli - I think the intention is to use just the engine, and ditch the rest of the gearbox etc.

... I suppose in that regard it would be better to seek out an early fwd-only one.
And that is exactly what I did... :-)

Gearbox time. As mentioned in the last post I was pretty set on using a Subaru Transaxle. I could also have entertained an Audi unit or perhaps a Renault 21 item but they are harder to find and more expensive. Subarus are everywhere!

So way before I had found a engine to buy I started looking. Now initially it was a Legacy front wheel drive trans that I was looking for but when I realised that early Leones also came out as front wheel drive with a smaller lighter 5 speed Transaxle they got added to the list. Not as easy to find though! Then one day a leone boot lid popped up local to me on my Trade me favourite search. I contacted the seller on the off chance that he might have a box. He did. In fact he had two. A early 1600 item and a later 1600/1800 unit. So we went for a drive and paid him a visit and what a thoroughly top fella he turned out to be. A mechanic by trade, ran a local garage before retiring and now works from home on locals cars. However its what he does in his past time that was really interesting. He has been building small hover craft for years and became well known for building one with wings that could fly....



But I digress. He had some boxes because he had been using subaru engines for his hovercraft. So I bought a couple of boxes (one which came with a 1600cc subaru engine attached) , two starter motors, an 1800 ring gear. All for curse word all because I think he just liked the nuttiness of my plans for the Imp.

So here is a box. The earlier 1600 in the small casing. about 4 kgs lighter with a smaller diff and takes a smaller flywheel..

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This next one is the one I'll use...

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Its a later Leone 1600 T71G which shares the same slightly bigger stronger casing as the 1800cc. Ratios are 1st 3.636 2nd 2.157 3rd 1.266 4th .885 5th .725, Rev 3.583 - these coupled with a 3.9 final drive ratio should suit the Imp pretty well on its 13" 175/60 wheels.

Here it is again next to the stock Imp box...

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Its not too far off but the gear selector is higher and points up at an angle. The box is also taller at the rear so the tunnel will need to be raised and the removable cross member chopped about. At 35kg its about 9kg heavier than the Imp box. I can take that.

An interesting and very handy fact is that the box selector rod works in exactly the same way as the imp item, even the movements in are pretty much the same in travel both in rotation and back and forth ! So that is nice.

Now as discussed previously there is the fact that the Honda will be rotating this boxes input shaft in a direction opposite to the norm. It has been done successfully with Audo boxes and I know of a fella who has run a box backwards behind a 440ci engine with no dramas. I'd also had the discussion about the new thrust loadings with a fella in the UK who's into Goldwings. Came to the conclusion that being a Japanese box from a much heavier car, optionally with a Turbo. So its not been to much of a worry however more people have questioned it and now I was really curious. I decided to strip the spare 1600 box down (same internal structure but a smaller diff and different casing)

I got as far has the last bearing and syncro hub to remove and my puller broke. I'll use friends press but even so I am now happy that it will be fine. 5th gear is the one with the least thrust area when run opposite direction but that wont be so loaded up. Here's some pics I took...

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A beautifully done bit of technical description in this one showing original (green) and new rotation thrust bearing positions. (My Samsung note phone needs a new stylus!)

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On a side note- it has to be the easiest gearbox I have ever taken apart (ignoring the fact I need a press to remove some bits from the shaft) so I will take the box I'll be using apart and rejoin the casings for mocking up purposes later on. Much easier on my back.

So lets put the box away in the corner and get back to the fun bit. The flat six. I was really looking forward to seeing how much lighter it was gonna get as I removed all the un-needed bits from inside. With the alternator, starter, inlet manifold and coolant pipes removed I weighed the engine. It came up at 105kg. Diet time!

I removed the rear clutch cover that has the slave cylinder built in. Removed the clutch unit. Took off the drive gear housing. Ohhhhhh. Clean and shiny. Neato. I was told that this engine was possibly a low mileage unit but I was not to know until I began to strip it. I was fearing sludge or bad staining inside the castings but its super clean.

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Here's a shot with a few of the spur gears missing and showing the various bits...

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Clutch unit added back but without the main rear casing on so you can see what it looks like..

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This was fun. I like learning new engine layouts. Here's the front of the engine which will now be facing backwards. Cambelt covers removed and you can spot not one but two VR sensors for the Honda CGI ignition setup. It has a 12 tooth trigger wheel which with a tooth removed could be used as a crank angle sensor for the EFI I have planned. More likely I'll make a 36-1 wheel the same size for better resolution. There is also plenty of room for a cam angle sensor to be fitted- Ideally I would rather run this engine on full sequential injection if ("if !?.... hahahaha" they laugh..." he said if " ) I use ITBS.

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Cam covers off. One of them had some welding. I suspect that the reason is that the bike was crashed and one cover got hit. Fella who originally had this engine for his project had bought a complete bike. You can see the nifty hydraulic valve lash adjusters..

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I removed the cams then the heads. Carefully stashed all the bits in order on a shelf I had cleared. All the bolts and bits were being placed in organiser trays I had bought for the project. I knew full well that this project could well drag on for a long time given life etc. With the help of Hannah we split the crank case and revealed all the gubbins inside...

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Lots of heavy stuff in there to weigh in! Yay.

All this stuff I didn't need went in this box...

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and that box went on the scales...

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35kg Sweeeeeeeeet! That's more like it. A little bit more to lose when I start hacking the crankcase apart. Now I'm aware that I'll be adding some weight back with a flywheel and clutch but hey- this is a good place to start. Its now a 70 kg flat six.

Next thing to do was sit it next to the box and line some things up...

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You can see where I'll have to fabricate a bellhousing to fill that 40mm gap. The Imp was at this point in time 'up on blocks' as I had the Datsun engine out to replace the rear main seal and ring gear. How handy then because I wanted to see how the engine sat in place! I bolted the heads back on loosely and slung the lot up under the imp. I lined the transaxles outputs with the driveshafts so positioning the engine front to back. I took a few photos, took some measurements and noted some stuff. I then removed the transaxle from the equation so I could lower the car down so the engine would sit roughy where it will end up.

I stood back and admired it. Wow! It just looked so bl***y spot on in there! Man - if my juices weren't fizzing with excitement previously as I stripped the engine down they certainly were now. I'll let these last photos I snapped end this update

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Alex
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by The Nun »

But presumably you've got to stick bits back on it, though, or is that how it is? What about induction system, filters, water pump fan, alternator, that will bung it up a little won't it?
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

nah- I'm going to forgo all of that stuff, cut some holes in the floor and flintstone it :lol:
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by oli »

What's the ground clearance like under the engine? Still looks a little tall..?
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by johnh875 »

oli wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:48 pm What's the ground clearance like under the engine? Still looks a little tall..?
Have a look at the image below that Alex posted above - this includes the gearbox housing too which I _think_ won't be used - depending on where the new flywheel will be mounted. There would be scope to lose some of that and either cut and shut or make a new sump. Alternatively, I wonder if keeping the Goldwing gearbox and using a separate diff could be an alternative.

Between the 40mm spacer and room in the Subaru bellhousing, I wonder if there won't be enough room for a flywheel and clutch bolted to the crank? Possibly even keeping the alternator drive or starter motor. I bet the front crankshaft pulley could be replaced to give an external accessory belt drive too. The oil pump might be the trickiest part to address.

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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

You're onto it- you've read my mind . Yeah you'll soon see plenty of chopping action and things getting smaller.
The current clamshell design whereby nothing in the crank case is serviceable without removing the heads and splitting the case is not a thing I like. Fine in a bike engine that is standard and well known for doing stratospheric mileages but not good when its been plonked in a car and things need to be adapted. So my plan is to make it as easy as possible to work on through the sump, like most car engines. I'll post up an update soon.
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by oli »

So the large part protruding underneath the bores is now only an empty sump? Cut it off and have a sealed flat plate instead? Oil capacity?
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by bazzateer »

Dry sump?
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

oli wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:52 pm So the large part protruding underneath the bores is now only an empty sump? Cut it off and have a sealed flat plate instead? Oil capacity?
Oh you guys- you're no fun with all your looking into the future and reading mind stuff :D

OK so I had the engine sitting there in pretty much the spot I wanted it. I had taken loads of measurements and pondered many aspects in an attempt to really look into the future and pick up on any potential problems that could arise. It was pretty obvious that the bodyshell was going to need a fair bit of chopping about in the tunnel region (ooooooohhhhh I can see the originality preachers trembling already..) and that the engine was too low in its nether regions. You can see it here. Its not stupidly low and I have seen worse but for a car that has to navigate our driveway with its rocky surface it needed to be better...

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It had a nice burly bottom but my intentions were to raise that and make a removable sump plate. Still with fins though to help keep the oil cool. Here's what the underside currently looks like...

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I pulled the engine out and sat it on the bench. The Imp then got its little Datsun heart bolted back in place and reassembled to working order (yay for no more leaks I thought..but it still leaks because British)

I poured myself a whiskey. It might have been a few. I studied the crankcase and sump carefully...

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I then went over my plan of attack. My main issue was the oil pump. It was going to have to move further up in the block so I had to find a suitable place to mount it. I also had to work out how I would drive it. Originally it there was a larger spur gear running off the crank, driving another spur gear. Off the centre of the spur gear was a sprocket which ran a chain down to a sprocket on the oil pump shaft. The oil pump shaft ran not one but two oil pumps. The main pump in the sump area and a smaller scavenging pump in the clutch housing area which squirted oil up over all the gears. The shaft also ran through the main pump to the front of the engine (what is now going to be the back) and powered a water pump.

A bit tricky to picture? Well here is a stunning bit of pencil art I did just now ...

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Plus a photo of the all those gubbins on view at the back. The driven spur gear is missing in this pic but you can see the splined hub it slides onto with the driver sprocket on inner end...

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Honda had made it all very neat but also all very complicated for what I required. I just need one main oil pump to feed the bearings.

So I move the oil pump up. Fine. I'll mill a flat area and make new mounting blocks to suit. But because I have removed the spur gear arrangement (no room for that lot with a custom flywheel planned for the crank) I'll have to chain drive the pump with sprockets (at the correct speed too). OK. That should be easy enough. But no spur gear means the pump will be running backwards. Oh bother.

So how about I mount the pump on the opposite side of the sump casing and so turn it around. The shaft is long enough because it goes right through the pump each way. I took the pump apart and checked if this was feasible. It was. Yes!

Now why not just run an external oil pump and dry sump it etc ? Well mainly because I am not Mr Money and hence prefer (have) to do it as cheaply as I can with what's at hand (more of a challenge this way and more satisfying too)

Also- if I use the Honda pump and keep the required oil routing sensible then it sort of remains factory. I am also going to do my very best at keeping the external look of the engine as clean as possible with a nice uncluttered engine bay. That's just the style I like.

Plus we were only just into lockdown here and I wanted to crack on, get as much fabrication as I could done while on my ' holiday in the shed '...

So now I had a plan to follow and could start chopping things up.

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I chopped it just below the engine mounts I intend to use. There is a myriad of long bolts running through the cases clamping them together. The main larger ones are all up around the crank area. Then another two lines of smaller ones below (which hold the cases together under the against the loading of the transmission shafts- now gone)

Plenty enough bolts so the lowest are now gone. This lot will be stronger when I have finished with my idea.

I kept chopping it up. Took a bit more off because it was fun. Lovely alloy too I might add. Very clean castings.

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Ended up with an engine a fair bit shorter in height...

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I got the cuts pretty square and straight. Made easy by the fact that Honda had nicely added reference lines for the purpose- just like on a pack of butter...

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Now I had to mill it flat. It would take decent sized knee mill to clean up something this size and awkward. Or how about a little drill mill, a steel bench and a big plate of steel I had rescued from a Japanese dentist chair I stripped for bits...

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I had to position it just right and use the swing on the radial drill mill to run over the cut edges. It looked a bit suspect but it worked fine with light cuts.

After the bottom of the sump case was flat and square I then milled a flat area on the face below the crank flange. This would leave a good flat surface, perpendicular to the crank centre line, to mount a plate with an idler sprocket on it for the oil pump drive I had sort of nutted out in my head (but really had not gone any further then just that and it could well have been just nutty)

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That area ended up like this...

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The pump would fit somewhere in here like this...

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Then I threw the lot on the fire...

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and swept up all the alloy chips that seem to have gone everywhere!

When it was nice and warm I welded some new flanges on. Very carefully and slowly I tacked them, taking my time to make sure they stayed true and square and keeping it warm in between tacks.

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They did. Yay I welded as much as I could reach with my torch along the tricky edge leaving just a few spots that I'll seal at build time with JB weld. It turned out so good that I barely needed to give it a tickle with a larger file, more just a clean up and sits square on my bench. Straight edge reveals my bench is indeed flat too- I had to check!

I was so happy at this point because it was one bit of the conversion I feared could go wrong - however I think the warming up and that fact the block is a complex very rigid shape helped keep it all straight.

I sat back with a cup of tea and admired my nice burly flanges that I will bolt a plate to...

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:-)
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

Technically we don't actually have a winter in our district. We have summer, late summer and spring. I just added the winter thing to make you feel warmer over there.... :)
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by RoyBlunt »

The picture of the 'barefoot steered' tourist boat was taken off Kaiteriteri Beach on a trip into the Abel Tasman National Park - sounds as if that must be fairly close to you. It's a super place!
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

Ha yeah. That is a 16 min bike ride away. We live on the other side of the forested hills behind Kaiteriteri. Our neighbour over the road was a skipper for that company for 20 years until just recently. The whole covid thing has knocked that company right back and a fair few have lost jobs.

It's an amazing area. We love it here. Abel tasman national park is on our door step - well a 4km bike ride away :-)

Here's Kaiteriteri a couple of weeks ago (apparently it's meant to be winter.. But really only means it's super quiet here)...
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The imp at Kaiteriteri couple of years back just after restoration...
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

Yeah I could have tried to go up further but then Id have removed the engine mounts I'm intending to make use of at the back. In overall height its actually quite a short engine now. There is great potential though for building one dry sumped and having a super low cog! would make for a great track day car. I'm building this more for the sounds and looks of a cool clean engine install though. I'm having so much fun driving the Imp just with the 60bhp datto engine so having another 40 bhp will be amazing.
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

Here I go, Saturday night (well Sat morning for you UK Impers) and another instalment. Because that's how I party...

I thought I'd post up a pic of all the other bits safely tucked away on my beautifully arranged 'Honda Goldwing cylinder head apartment storage facilities. At the right height to peer at when needed (maybe for a mojo boost one day - "oh yeah.. that's what the rest of the engine looked like before I pulled it apart, chopped it up and started a whole can of worms type project from it")

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Here's a piston storage rack that would make Maclarens factory effort look like something from scrapheap challenge..

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Carefully laid out heads- these engines have identical heads, cam carriers, cams etc for each side. Don't mix them up!..

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All covered up by a lovely sheet so not to get covered in dust. (It makes it like a secret stash of engine goodness)..

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Now back to the block/engine casings. I'll call it a block from now on, ignoring the fact its two halves. So I have now got to re-mount the oil pump on the opposite side, higher up and turned 180 degrees from where it was originally mounted. It has to go about here...

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I also had to work out a new way of getting the oil from this new position to the oil filter and then onwards to the starting point of the main oil gallery. Here's a lovely picture you can ponder over. Best pondered with some strong coffee...

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The standard oil filter location, on what was the front of the engine but is now the back and right where I wanted to put a cross member to hold the engine up. Not to forget that a large chunk of those casings had disappeared after I chopped them off, halfway through the original filter mounting point..

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I looked over the engine and eventually worked out a spot that would suit a new filter pedestal to be mounted so allowing easy access for filter removal. It also had potential to allow for a Mazda style oil cooler or a take off plate to suit a normal oil cooler. It was going to mount roughly about here...

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It was going to require a big hefty lump of alloy to start with. But I was on lockdown along with most of NZ. Luckily the local engineering workshop that I go to for many bits of random steel stock was doing 'essential' jobs for some industries still running. The workshop foreman left me a lump of alloy in his letterbox that happened to be on the way home from the supermarket shop. This was a lucky thing! Here's the lump of alloy after a lot of it was turned into many many little tiny shards of alloy...

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I'll get back to that lump later. Next thing was make some flat areas that I could mount things on and line stuff up with. The block was split in two luckily I was able to clamp it to the bed of the mill. I machined the inside so...

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I had to do this on both sides in different areas. One side had to be machined to suit a new location for the oil pump. On the other casing i machined out pockets to take machine bits that would locate new oil pump feed and return pipes. I was going to do oil the pipe work in alloy using the same size pipes and o-rings as previously used by Honda for the original setup. But now I'm getting ahead of myself and even forgetting where I'm at in writing this. In fact - many times as I looked over the oil line layout I was scheming I would get a bit confused. I felt like this bloke who had just turned up at this new city for a job interview and discovered his phone was dead, his map was 40 years out of date and he didn't speak the local language...

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So where was I?... Machining things and making a mess of the floor, trailing alloy swarf everywhere inc into the housetruck. Not making friends with Hannah or the cat. Anyway. That oil filter pedestal/mount? needed a flat pocket to mount to. I machined away the casing so creating such an area...

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On the other side of that I machined out a matching pocket. It began sort of like this...

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..and continued like ...

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Because it was so fun I took away more alloy...

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Now I had a nice location for the mount. This would be pulled into the outside pocket with a custom gasket sealing it, via bolts from the inside going through another bit of alloy that would be machined to help locate the pipes in and out. From the outside it would sit like this...

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I drilled the mount and then set about to tap the M18 thread. But I didn't have a M18 tap. Its lockdown so borrowing one from someone was out of the question. But I did have a few spare old Mazda V6 oil filter mounts so I nicked the threaded pipe from one of them and made a tap...

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It worked fine (phew! ) ....

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I then turned out the oil groove to suit the Honda filter. I didn't take a photo of this but you'll see it here as I was drilling the oil ways through...

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Drilled and tapped some mounting holes...

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Now I had a lovely oil filter mount...

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Annoyingly I didn't take any pics of the oil pump mount but I can describe it. The oil pump bolt via three bolts to a alloy plate. This plate is bolted to the inside of the casing via bolts that come from outside through spot faced locations...

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The oil pump shaft runs backwards towards what will be the flywheel area where it will be driven by a series of two chains off the crank adaptor - sort of like the original. But backwards and on the other side. That you will see soon along with a network of machined pipes and fittings that almost need a subway map to follow.

More soon
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by johnh875 »

No worries Alex. I've seen RR before but not registered - that will have to change now!
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

Yeah definitely check it out again. Good thing is you don't have to register to browse- only if you want to join in. Hopefully the activity will then draw you in :-) So many sweet cars of other makes that I didn't even know existed let alone picture the sweet modifications you can make to them!
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Re: Hillman Imp 911 project. Thanks to Hondas flat six....

Post by yoeddynz »

Cheers John - Yeah I'm cutting back and will put the efforts into RR and oldschool.

Bazz- I think your are over on RR anyway- or used to be?

I tried linking to this thread from the Facebook Imp page thinking it might help with a flow of more people to come here. But nup- you cant even view a readers car thread without registering!!! :shock: That straight away put people off from looking. This is a shame for the forum and a backwards step IMO. As mentioned soooooo many times in the 'forum upgrades' thread I'd started (which has gone missing!?) - there needs to be unhindered access for folk to just have a look. If they find an interesting thread and want to comment then they can register to do so and hopefully stay on. Then they might even decide to join the club!!

I have spoken and even met some paid up members of the Imp club who did not even know this forum exists!

Nothing seems to have been done since I started a thread about upgrading the forum over 2 years ago. The fact I cant even find that thread is a shame because it was full of good discussion with loads of great ideas from many on here about how the forum could be improved. I don't know why it was removed? I feel slightly saddened, annoyed even, that I was not even informed as to why?

So apart from an option to have a change in colour I see nothing that has been done. Glacial springs to mind.

So for now I will concentrate my posts on the two forums that I've been on for years and they both have constantly updated themselves to stay ahead of the pack. They certainly are way more interested in modifications of all kinds without any sort of remarks about keeping it 'original'. Generally they are less old fashioned.

Sadly the Imp forum is not the only one make forum that I have seen suffer from stagnation. For the club I do hope someone with more energy and forward thinking steps up and really puts some effort into really changing this forum. The money is there. IMO it needs a totally new platform to start with- I think pB is just too outdated.

Alex
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