Nods news , A fixorage happened

[moose]

some people are never happy car broken moan, whinge mojo gone....... car works perfectly BORED.......

how many years aiming for perfection and all it leads to is disapointment, or has half your life been wasted trying to make a pig fly

if you have some hols i will give you free accomodation if you want to help out at moose motorsport whilst i am on nights. poor rates of pay are standard

[moose]

Call in any time Just e-mail me i am 40 mins from the south lake district so you can have a stop over if it suits your plans. have a weekend away to kill the boredom. i will set you up with a road book tour of the best roads and places to visit please allow a few hours to talk cars in the workshop

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Well to continue the boring post count ive just changed the oil in the Singer and checked it over , Ive checked nuts and bolts , greased kingpins , adjusted brakes and changed the brake and clutch fluid ,
Checked me do-nuts and generally given it a mini service
The only thing i found wrong was the fuel pump warning light bulb was blown

End of boring post

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Went to Sherborne castle car show today , weather was OK with the exception of the odd light drizzle , piccy opertunities were not good as there was a plastic red and white tape in the way , however with the help of iphoto ive removed it as best i can and heres the result
Great to see Kinger , Nugget and the other fine people again , show seasons been a washout so far this year , only my second show so far
Kilty made it although not in his Imp so Nugget took his place with a stunning Ginetta , unfortunately just this photo and two others of other non Imp cars came out any sense , cameras batteries were not up to much or something
Hopefully others took some of the show

[basil imp]

Me and max (small ginger dog) are in that photo

It was lovely weather on the way home. Sunshine!

[kilty]

The old geezer who owns that Marina told me his 2 folding chairs were worth more than the car.

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

With national only weeks away I thought it best to give the old girl a thorough going over , ive
Greased the kingpins
Adjusted and checked all the brakes
Changed the OSF wheel bearings and races , the ones fitted sounded grumbly but span free , i pulled them out and couldnt see anything wrong but changed them anyway just in case.
Checked the driveshaft coulplings and the bolt tightness
Topped up the steering rack oil ( with too much ) and checked the mounting nuts
Changed the transaxle oil , this was more an accident that deliberate , i wanted to see how dirty it was so removed the drain plug to get a bit out , this then fell into the collecting bowl and by the time id fished it out it was half drained anyway , so i let it drain fully and changed the oil , hasnt been changed this century so it wont do any harm , old oil was quite clean which is good and yes I did use GL4 not GL5 EP80.
Checked all the nuts on the bell housing and the inlet / exhaust manifold nuts

il check tyre pressures and engine oil etc just before we go .

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Just in case anyone is still out there ive been pratting about with the Singer.
Cars as finished as it will ever be so ive spent the afternoon cleaning the interior which was minging to say the least ,
Heres a few piccys of the finer points


Chammy coupe split rear seats and reclining fronts



Rootes fire extinquisher , genuine speaker grills with modern speakers and period EKCO name plates , theres a matching pair of extinquishers and speakers on tother side
Seatbelt retractors , period 60s padded rear pocket covers



General dash view with the compulsory extra dials and home made heater knob ( tother one broke off

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Tax disc holder




Cosmic door pocket kick plates with extra strip on the pocket and uber rare chrome knobbed winders



Steering wheel centre in home turned ally , really chuffed with the red ring around the badge

[TJB69]

Spot on. Looks really nice

[67cali]

You missed a bit on the door pocket, it's still bear metal.

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

You missed a bit on the door pocket, it's still bear metal.

Wear and tear mate

Home made switch panel

[classiccapsule]

Nice job Noddy. Even Mrs Doubtfire would be chuffed!

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Well weve just got home ,
Fabulous weekend except for sleep depravation caused by a rather loud snorer near us so a big thanks to all the organisers from the Noddy clan,

462 Miles in total with only one slight if rather dangerous fail on the way home , it started hoofing it down on the M42 so turned on the wipers and ----------------- NOTHING
, Managed to get to Hopworth services almost blind where after a quick investigation a duff switch was diagnosed , Lucas , prince of darkness ( or should that be wetness ) strikes again , A quick repair was done by nicking the heater fan switch after pulling the fuse for it out and fitting said switch to work the wipers which seemed more important at the time .
Drove non stop from Hopworth to home , some 177 miles , Vusky ran really well and never missed a beat on the whole trip.
bought too many spares and spent too much but who cares .
Great to catch up with people , IM and Mrs IM , Meltdown and Mrs Meltdown ,classiccapsule , little legs Andy G , Robin Human ( who took all my money ), Baz , all at regalia , Uncle Malc , Colin Rooney , Charlotte , Kilty etc etc etc , I could go on and on really , sorry if Ive missed anyone out

Big thanks to all those who thought the Vusky worthy of their vote and getting me a third in class , I didnt think the poor thing to be good enough but what do I know

[chris d]

congrats on the award dave
well deserved
i tried taking a photo at the awards but it did turn out (too much sun )
sorry
but well done
chris d

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Spent the day fitting newness national weekend purchases , The Singer ( now nicnamed Thursdays Child ) has always sat a bit high at the front
Heres how it was



And a few of how it is now , negative camber is 3 degrees ish so will play with this at some point

[james]

Looks excellent. And a bit of negative camber is just what the doctor ordered - ideal for improving fast cornering grip.

[Lars Hagermark]

Beautiful!

[ImpManiac]

The stance of the Singer is now spot on, Noddy! Fabulous!

It was great to catch up with you and Mrs. Noddy too, my dear friend! Thank you also for taking the time to look at my alternator for me. I shall fit it now with confidence.

IM

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

After much looking this morning I recon the negative camber was a bit much so Ive spent a few hours sorting this out . Ive done the mod via Millingtons , these stub axles were already modded but only by 1mm so ive doubled it to 2mm , seems a lot better , also been up my local friendly garage and sorted out the tracking which was toeing out 1 degree and also adjusted the headlights which were now too low , did it all myself and gave them a tenner for the tool use


Heres how it was , ive had to lighten up the piccy as it wasnt very clear ( crap photo skills )



And heres after ive altered it , I dont think its excessive now but would like your opinions



And this is how it sits now , quite chuffed , il move the number plate up at some point though as i recon il rip it off otherwise

[bks974c]

The shape of the wheel arches leads to an optical illusion of the camber being more than it actually is. I drop a plumb line and then measure the distance to the top and bottom of the wheel and then stick it in here to check. I usually aim for 1-2 degrees negative.

http://www.furybusa.org.uk/camber.php

Scott

[classiccapsule]

Well, enthused by the National and deciding to deal with my inclination to be negative head on, I saw Noddy's post and decided I would give it a go. Got to work and soon had the Chamois in bits. Sadly I hadn't got some of the parts I needed, so as my hands were dirty, Sandra said she'd drop into the car parts shop while she was out getting some shopping in. I quickly wrote out a list of what I thought I needed and off she went.

Anyway she came back an hour or so later. I used what she brought me but I think I must have got it wrong. Either the bloke in the car parts shop didn't get what I wanted, my spelling was wrong or Sandra mixed the lists up. It's all back together, but the handlings all over the place and the brakes really smell when they get hot. Here's a photo, any idea what I've done wrong?

Is it purely a parts issue or is it the set up?

[Lars Hagermark]

Not very much wrong there.
Camber appears to be within limits.
Perhaps the tyre compound is a little bit too soft though.
Binning those huge wheel caps will improve brake cooling and make the smell disappear.

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

I think you have a parts issue Eddie .
Il run through the mod step by step if you wish , perhaps theres a better compound to use

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

We Went for a blast in the Singer yesterday and ive got to say the handling is superb , very planted , very controllable and the best its ever been.
Ride is a bit harsher probably due to the Van rear shocks ive just fitted as a trial but thats a small price to pay for such wonderful handling.

Well happy

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Ive changed the filter housing on the Singer this morning
Two reasons for doing this ,
1 , It had a spin on cartridge and ive no filters left in stock for these but do have 20 plus paper old school ones
2, I wanted to see if the spin on filter was causing the excessive 80+ PSI oil pressure on initial fire up .
On removing the housing I found that this valve was no longer in its hole and just rattling about in there , not sure what harm its done to the engine but its been like it a fair while
It looks like the oil has been bypassing the cooler but ive no idea as ive never come across this before
Il scrap the housing regardless but will remove the oil cooler elbows and relieve valve should anyone need them
Any clues as to what happens if this valve is missing in action
Just hope the oil hasnt been by-passing the filter the whole time , Possible panic on then

[Lotus-e-Clan]

I think that's the "blocked filter bypass valve" which means some of your oil has bypassed the filter blocked or not?

Interested to see what your pressure will be like with a paper canister filter ...maybe back to normal.

[Lotus-e-Clan]

So it's a "blocked cooler bypass valve" then?

The screw-ons having there own internal blocked filter bypass valve?

I'm slightly confused I must admit.

But either way, I've been saying for some time that the modern screw-ons have micro pores suitable for thinner modern oils so the thick old school stuff will bypass the blocked filter vavle when cold and thick.

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Ive had a look at another spin on housing ive got without oil cooler take-offs , theres no valve fitted so my guess is its something to do with the cooler,
I think your right on the spin on filter , i use VR1 oil which is like glue when cold so this might be the high cold pressure cause , il report back on fire up tomorrow when its cold

[bks974c]

I remember removing the valve when using that housing without an oil cooler, it was essential as without the route through the cooler it would not have flowed round the engine. So iirc all that has happened the oil would have bypassed the oil cooler but been through the filter - no harm done.

Scott

[cov_climax]

or tap a thread for a tapered pipe bung, no need for a cooler by-pass really.

i got rid of my spin of housing after erratic oil pressure, even with an adjustable relief valve it was often over 100psi cold and 80psi hot, i tried all sorts, because it would hold say 60psi up to 3500rpm then above that it would just climb off the gauge, almost as if the relief valve couldn't spill enough oil i tried changing the the plunger to a ball bearing, opening out the holes in the relief body, machining a groove around the outside to allow the rear hole to to flow more oil, i even made special shim washers to index it on the threads to align the relief holes with the hole in the housing.

in the end gave up and swapped to paper element type and virtually all the above were cured..... might just be co-incidental though. oh and the pressure was measured at the middle mains bung

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Fired up the Singer this morning , stone cold oil pressure only went to 60 psi and not above even when i pulled away.
It would seem modern spin on filters are unsuitable for 20/50 oil and can cause excessive oil pressure on start up .

[Lotus-e-Clan]

See. .. I got that bit right then!

So I wonder if all spin-ons are the same? The last spin-on I used with the Imp Sport engine was the larger Volvo item and that gave high cold pressure (80+).

The Lotus 912 engine oil spec is 20/50 and uses a spin-on. This then also explains why some owners are reporting off the scale cold oil pressures (7+ bar). My cold pressures are normal using a Lotus original filter so maybe other owners who have high oil pressure are using non-Lotus modern equivalents?

Maybe need a new thread for folk to report their cold pressures and type of filters used?

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

NOS are all we have for the non spin on filters so theres been no issues thus far .
I believe Bob has been looking into getting these re-made , this micro bore issue needs to be sorted before hand if so or we will all end up with off the scale cold oil pressure .

[moose]

i can supply the correct spin on filters, there are many types that fit the thread and seal dia but you need the filters that fit the engines of the day that ran the 20/50 oil. race/rally spec and road available, for you Dave road filter, get in touch if you want to try a back to back comparison will supply one for free if you report back, if you do not want the trouble and fiddle of swappping back then back again etc no problem. i will not be supplying to anybody else on mass as it is too much hassle for the gain and i will probably have all my research and investment poached by someone else who will under cut me and make me look bad (happened with parts 3 times now so no more, but if anyone is stuck and needs help on a club member to club member level i will of course help out (basically what i am saying is i will not sell for profit).

[Lotus-e-Clan]

Well someone needs to supply the right filter type Mike so you should benefit from the situation. If other traders haven't cottoned-on then 'tis up to them to catch-up.

At face value, high initial cold oil pressure would seem harmless BUT NOT SO if the fine micro pores are causing the blocked filter bypass valve to open. This would mean the initial cold oil circulation to the bearings is unfiltered and overtime increased wear is inevitable!

[bks974c]

Hi Mike

Will do - there no hurry from my point of view as new filter just been put on and have Durham Dales on the 2nd and Speedfair at Knockhill on the 8/9th Sept,
David out on either ?

Be better to change it after that when I have more time to record the results.

Scott

[617sqn]

I've converted a spin-on oil filter housing for a mate recently, which didn't have the elbow tappings opened out. I blocked the original port with a 16 mm grub screw, loctited into the pre-tapped port drilling. I'm trying to work out what would happen if the filter was blocked Would the spin-on be subjected to however much pressure the pump could generate and possibly fail, or is the original bleed valve not a part of this process and is only there to assure there will be a flow of oil if the cooler got blocked ?

Andy G.

[Lotus-e-Clan]

I'm confused about this too.

The screw-ons must have a internal relief valve if screw-on blocks are designed without one. If not, then that is a worry. The way I see it is, normally, there is a system pressure drop due to the presence of the filter (pressure reading beyond the filter) and if the filter is bypassed (blocked or too restrictive to thick oil) the systemic pressure goes high until the oil thins sufficiently to pass through the filter pores.

[james]

Yes, the spin-on filters have an inbuilt bypass valve.

I was perusing the WSM last night, and looking at the filter head setup. Only the oil passing to the bearings goes through the filter. As a result, the only way I can work out the high pressure situation is that the filter is presenting less restriction to the flow of oil than the cartridge filter. This could be either due to more filter area, or the bypass valve opening and eliminating any pressure differential.

However, the way I see it, the bypass valve has a set opening pressure. For the cartridge filter head it's about 13psi. For a spin-on filter, this will vary by manufacturer, but for my preferred filter the information online states that it is 1.1bar - about 16psi*. The valve is a simple sprung plunger, and will re-close whenever the differential pressure across the valve drops below 13psi. There's no hysteresis - the valve will attempt to maintain the difference at about 13psi, much like a thermostat - which is a temperature-related-pressure vs spring arrangement) maintains a certain temperature.

As a result, the only conclusion I can come to is that the spin-on filter elements present less restriction to the oil flow than a cartridge element. Bear in mind that most filters that people use come from larger engines (eg the Mann W917 is Volvo 240 fitment - up to a 2.3L engine) so the overall oil flow will be dramatically higher than in the Imp engine - despite the thinner oil, it can't have a big pressure restriction.

I plan to purchase a decent modern spin-on filter (Mann W917 - Volvo OEM) and a cartridge filter. I will cut them both open and compare the filter area. I will also run a static-head test of oil flow through a given area of filter. With any luck, this should answer the question over the bypass valve.

One option for those concerned might be to use 15W/50 or even 10W/50 semi or fully synthetic oil - it's thinner when cold, so should reduce the cold oil pressure, while maintaining the same pressure at high temperature.

*https://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodkata ... ckToPage=3

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Ive been poking around the net trying to find out about oil filters , heres what ive got so far

Info Dated 2003.
Most filters in europe are made by Sogefi Filtration who have a number of factories in europe , they own Fram , Coopers and Crossland. they are OE to most manufacturers in europe .
No filter maker makes every filter they sell , much intertrading is done as its not cost effective to tool up for everything
Champion filters are made in one small factory in europe in Italy
AFAIK They are nothing to do with champion plugs , Halfords sell them as its a well known name over here in the UK.
Sogefi make filters for Halfords.
Champion in the US is not the plug people either and sell under Champ , they sell under various names inc. STP. Bosch , AC Delco and Mobil 1.
Theres mix and match here also , Mopar can be Fram ( not sure if its the same Fram as the EU ) Purolator or Wix
Current info
Filters are tested under SAEJ1858 for partical counting upstream and downstream
Theres various micron holes in each filter , one site says 40% at 10 , 60% at 20 , 93% at 30 and 97% at 40 , how that works out ive no idea ,
They are also tested under SAEJ806 for contamitate holding capasity in grams and the ability to maintain clean oil , filter life in hours etc.
Increased filtering is controlled by size and the amount of filter fitted or in another way the number of pleats

So im no wiser really

[Lotus-e-Clan]

Well you have found out that all filter material is not created equal. The pore sizes may vary between 10 and 40 micron, some having mixtures of 10 & 20 microns, some mainly 30, and some mainly 40 microns. I guess for the thicker oils we would want 30 or 40 micron filters rather than an mixture of 10 and 20 microns. I'd also guess that the VERY large cartridges may have smaller pores and compensate for flow by having a greater overall surface area?

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Ive just hacked the filter from the Champion C103 filter that was on the Singer , I think the pleat count is a bit more on the Champion but the size difference is MASSIVE ,
Perhaps this is the issue

Heres the spec
CHAMPION C103 Spin on
Pleats 61
Pleat depth 12mm
Total internal filter diameter 67mm
Total internal filter lenght 62mm
Total filter area 160 sq in. ( actual )

TJ STANDARD IMP
Pleats 50
Pleat depth 18mm
Total filter diameter 72mm
Lenght 112mm
Total filter area 220 sq in ( approx )
Anyone care to work out the actual surface area of a std filter , i dont want to cut up a new one

[ImpManiac]

I use a much larger Champion filter on my engine. I think it's a C106 but I am not sure. I do have one in the garage, though, so shall try to remember to check it. My oil pressure was on the high side but not crazy. At first, though, the pressure was about 90 psi cold. After a few hundred miles, that dropped quite a bit, although it was still 75 or 80 psi cold, IIRC. It was more like 30 psi hot, though. I too have an adjustable pressure relief valve.

IM

[kilty]

Is that not post national depression mate?!

[bazzateer]

I wouldn't pay any attention to the 'I know better than anybody else so there!' poster Dave. He's in a very small and insignificant minority as far as I can tell. Also, his intimation that because some parts of Europe already have this we should presumably means he feels we should also introduce public bull fighting! Tim's post about not feeding him is very appropriate.

[kilty]

All was sound with the transom then?
I love it when a plan comes together.
I bet they never got a spot of rain at Mark Moor. Jammy gets!

[Kinger]

Not a spot of rain all day to interupt the sunshine:) at Mark Moor....what a great show that always is
Now Baltonsbourgh tomorrow...storm clouds gathering......

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

Kinger delivered the panel this morning , big thanks Mike . it looked solid but had been attacked by the under seal fairy .
So with an hour or so to spare thought it best to take everything off paint and under seal wise just in case its hiding rust / filler / string and newspaper repairs
Heres how it started , had to remove the under seal first as it clogs the sander up



After an hour it looked like this , very pleasantly surprised as its rust free with just a few small dents , il take it to work tomorrow and attack it with the smaller sand blaster at work , this should shift the paint and crud from the fiddly bits like the lock catches.
Then its weld up the badge holes , fill dents , drill holes for the US bumper etc

How it is now

[kilty]

I haven`t stripped one of those in years. I should`ve bought it for myself!