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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by james » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:54 pm

Lotus-e-Clan wrote:Now then, it's possible to change the springs at low cost to convert the dizzy to a sport spec assuming the centrifugal advance stop is on the money for a Sport spec (but that can be tweaked too).
I have had both apart, and they are definitely different. IIRC, the Sport advance stop is more advanced than the standard, by a few degrees.

According to the WSM, 41122 (std, Mk2, HC) max advance is 15 degrees (@ 3000 rpm, both figures @ distributor). 41190 (later Sport) is 18 degrees (@ 3000 rpm, both @ distributor).

It would be interesting to see the actual numbers from Dave's engine though.

EDIT: the vac advance is different too. Sport unit starts advancing with less vacuum, finishes at much less vacuum, and has a little more advance overall. I wouldn't mind betting that changing to a sport vac unit will improve your on-cruise MPG. The Sport one is marked 3-10-10.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:02 pm

james wrote:It would be interesting to see the actual numbers from Dave's engine though.
Yeah they might well tell a story in themselves.

It's easy to mod a 15 degree stop into an 18 degree one with a file.... obviously much harder to go backwards :lol: . I think my L4 45D dizzy has a 17 degree stop IIRC so wouldn't be surprised if the Sport is 17 or 18 degree given they both use a Sport cam.

But for sure (my fav F1 phrase :lol: ), there's no point in tweaking the fueling any further until the ignition curve is right, end of.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Meltdown » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:09 pm

Lotus-e-Clan wrote:
It's easy to mod a 15 degree stop into an 18 degree one with a file.... obviously much harder to go backwards
Going backwards can be done, just braze and file the xtra metal.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:09 pm

Lotus-e-Clan wrote:
james wrote:It would be interesting to see the actual numbers from Dave's engine though.
Yeah they might well tell a story in themselves.

It's easy to mod a 15 degree stop into an 18 degree one with a file.... obviously much harder to go backwards :lol: . I think my L4 45D dizzy has a 17 degree stop IIRC so wouldn't be surprised if the Sport is 17 or 18 degree given they both use a Sport cam.

But for sure (my fav F1 phrase :lol: ), there's no point in tweaking the fueling any further until the ignition curve is right, end of.
The Distributor Doctor also has all the vac capsule specs too so that could be changed too (if affordable).
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:10 pm

Thanks again , heres the figures from the WSM , I will check mine when the neighbours are all away but as its a NEW dizzy im hoping this will help for now ,
Il just post up the ones in red from your post if any match and il use the decelerate on engine figures

1000 RPM , standard 0 to 3 degrees ---------------------------------------------- Sport 0 to 4 degrees
2000 RPM 10 TO 14 ---------------------------------------------- 16 TO 20
3000 RPM 15 to 19 --------------------------------------------- 20 to 24
3500 RPM 17 to 21 --------------------------------------------- 22 to 26

Stupid book goes no higher
Advance on mine is 14 degrees and IIRC a sport is 17
Im going to leave the carbs well alone for now but would like to try a sport dizzy or convert mine , Again IIRC its the length of the stop ( the part with the degrees marked ) that determins the over all degrees of advance , by shortening the stop lenght and changing the springs i think its possible to convert mine , vacuum advance unit is also different
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:12 pm

Meltdown wrote:
Lotus-e-Clan wrote:
It's easy to mod a 15 degree stop into an 18 degree one with a file.... obviously much harder to go backwards
Going backwards can be done, just braze and file the xtra metal.
Hard for me though 'cos of lack of brazing skills! :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by ChrisBenoy » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:16 pm

Ah I hadn't realised that the Vac unit was different, when I built my dizzy into a sport one (from a sport unit that had inexplicably failed) I changed the stop and the springs over but not the vac unit. Will have to do this soon and see if it helps.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Meltdown » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:45 pm

Lotus-e-Clan wrote:
Meltdown wrote:
Lotus-e-Clan wrote:
It's easy to mod a 15 degree stop into an 18 degree one with a file.... obviously much harder to go backwards
Going backwards can be done, just braze and file the xtra metal.
Hard for me though 'cos of lack of brazing skills! :lol:
Likewise, but I'm sure our Noddy is quite capable :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:13 pm

Welding / brazing stuff is the least of my worries :)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Meltdown » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:19 pm

Noddy wrote:Welding / brazing stuff is the least of my worries :)
There you go, just add a selection of springs and bob weights and you can pimp your dizzy no probs :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by impmann » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:32 am

FWIW - the Distributor Doctor quoted me £175 to rebuild one of my Sport dizzies. Based on the aggro, plus the fitment on the correct parts (not Chinese crap), I think thats reasonable.

I've got a couple of Sport dizzies here that need rebuilding and one day will get around to having them done.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by enfielder2000 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:58 pm

"The sport is marked 3.10.10"

Where is this number show, I can't see anything on my dizzy

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by james » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:37 pm

enfielder2000 wrote:"The sport is marked 3.10.10"

Where is this number show, I can't see anything on my dizzy

Derek
Somewhere on the vacuum advance unit, but I'm not entirely sure where.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Lotus e clan to the front desk please

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:57 pm

Calling Pete AKA Lotus e clan,
Ive managed to find an old knackered sport dizzy and have retro fitted the bits into my dizzy
Revs like a mad thing at a mad things party but its now running leaner , am I right in guessing that the burn is now more efficient and burning more of the fuel hence the lighter plugs :?: ,
Its certainly quicker off the mark and screams its nuts off even like this :)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Calling Lotus e clan

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:41 pm

For sure, (my favorite F1 phrase), under load, on wide open throttle, a very low AFR indicates incomplete combustion. I used this fact to home into the best advance for a particular rev band on wide open throttle...ie the best advance setting gives you a higher AFR than a retarded one or indeed one that it too advanced...hard to believe I know, but during this particular method both too advanced AND too retarded give lower AFRs than the optimum advanced setting (regardless of the fueling ...within reason). I got this AFR method to set the advance curve off the net BTW...it worked for me.

The nearer to 14.7 you get, then the more efficient the combustion...but you NEVER want an AFR of 14.7 (or higher :shock: ) on WOT because of the extreme temperature of the burn. At WOT, full power, with good torque, is best found on AFRs of 12.5 to 13.4. My engine feels torquier though on nearer 13.2 at WOT than nearer 12.5, that's for sure.

On part throttle you can get away with a 14.7 AFR but when you go beyond 15 it'll start to misfire especially as the load increases.

SO if you have no misfire on part throttle, or under gentle acceleration on part throttle then there's not much to worry about there.

Obviously you know already that when reading the plugs you need to distinguish between the effect of weakness on part throttle and weakness under full load. I know from my WinLog logs that the amount of time spent on WOT is extremely low even when driving fast on the road but that depends on the state of your engine and gearing of course ...a low powered engine on std gears will be driven on WOT much more often than a high powered one on a CR box.

The other thing to consider is separating the effect of the mechanical advance from the vacuum advance. I you want to be sure the full power WOT advance is right then disconnect the vacuum and do a test drive...if the plugs look weak after that then it's more important you sort that out than when the vacuum is connected (OK it'll run shit on part throttle withOUT the vac advance but you know what I'm getting at.)

Crikey, I've probably gone off track and not answered your original question....but it might be in there somewhere. :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:22 pm

Thanks Pete .
I have found one technical hitch with the rolling road results
The vacuum advance WASNT WORKING :shock: as the pipe had a split in it
Not sure on any of it now as im not sure what this effects re. the AFR

DOH :roll: :lol:
Last edited by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane on Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,

Post by cov_climax » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:24 pm

wouldn't really have mattered, won't be doing a lot at wide open throttle (WOT)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by moose » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:59 pm

but the air leak will effect things.

Dave not having a pop but this is a good example of why everything has to be tip top before going to a RR and modern RR's are poor for old vehicles. with my carb man and my crypton tuner we can usually make for a smoother quicker car than most RR tuned cars, old cars are basic so the basics have to work to their optimum. i know all this is fun tuning rather than trying to win the WRC but how happy would you be now if the split pipe had not been there (would show up on the crypton tuner) and you had that home tuned sport dizzy? it is a serious increase in power and torque (i.e. driveabilty, wanting to rev etc) if you can feel it through the seat of your pants and there is more to come when you now re-tune the carbs to the engine that is wanting to run better. so another bit of info gleened it maybe ten years old and built by you but that was not what was holding the engine back you have built a corker of a motor and if the RR knew what they were doing they would have told you the car felt flat due to lack of advance or slow advance or a combination of both. i now stock altered curve dizzy's for most cars as many people build a cammed engine with massive carbs etc and then to save money leave the old dizzy and no amount of persuasion will make them buy a dizzy off me(even though they are happy for you to try to tweak the carbs at £35 per hour as they believe that is where the fault is and this will release all the power) until you say well try this one i have, it is not 100% for yor engine but... they go for a drive and getting my dizzy back is then the problem.
well done on this home tuning and if i had known you wanted to play this much i would have sent my old crypton FOC down to the national for you. For those that remember the old crypton tuners they were and excellent bit of kit for the day lots of people who did not know what they were doing could play and reccomend new parts which made neglected cars go better (but if you just serviced the neglected car it have the same effect you would just lose out on the + bit on the bill for clipping it to the crypton) if you really know how to use one you can detect bent dizzy shafts, differences in HT lead resistance, advance speed, advance start and finish to the curve etc etc
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:27 pm

No problem with pop thing , Vacuum advance was checked a few days before using my " remove the pipe and suck " method . I misled slightly as it was the union for the pipe and not the pipe itself , probably split when i reconnected the pipe :roll: :roll: .
Anyway I will continue to play doing small one alteration at a time and see how good i can get it .
RR was just a way of monitoring how things are so far , they cant take the place of real world driving and the sense you get when something is not quite right or indeed spot on .
It certainly has the potential to go a lot better and ive already made inroads , its just time , and the usual funds that hold you back
This trial and error method can be very frustrating but its a great way to learn and ive already gained a fair bit of new knowledge .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:34 pm

Wisdom Mike , for sure. 8)

Nice one Mike...BTW, those rear brake shoes you sold me are FAB! 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by moose » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:39 pm

no problem Pete thanks for the feedback i know they are not the cheapest but they are extremely good have they helped with the front to rear balance with running discs on the front?
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:42 pm

moose wrote:no problem Pete thanks for the feedback i know they are not the cheapest but they are extremely good have they helped with the front to rear balance with running discs on the front?
Made an amazing difference in braking confidence and overall feel compared to the ones I had from Malc. 8)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by moose » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:50 pm

i run them all round on the rally car and as the rules say i can only run viva type disc conversion that widens the track and i feel will upset the handling i am sticking with drums all round, i would like to do a back to back comparison of any front brake set up but as i have never lost confidence in the drums setup i will concentrate on rallying rather than testing, i am glad to here that first hand experiance they compliment a front disc conversion well, i have driven a standard imp with disc conversion and felt the front was overbraked a bias box would of helped but if you can get the back to retard the car with nearly equal pull the bias difference can be lessend.

Sorry Dave back to needles on those carbs of yours, what make are they again? :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:56 pm

OK mike, mine are Micra 12 inch and not too overbraked on the front compared to some but the rear now is working as it should and making a bigger contribution to the braking than before....'cos I've change nothing on the front ...just fitted your rear shoes..it can only be down to the rear shoes and the ones I took off were not worn out either! Not saying Malcs shoes are not any good ...just that these are better!

Sorry Noddy-Dave for hijack.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning stuff

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:48 am

Ive learnt a few things since last week :)
1, A RR bears no resembalance whatsoever to real world driving , what was fine ( ish ) at WOT isnt under normal use
2, My latest needles are wrong but are very close to an ideal so another pair on their way which will hopefully sort this out.
3, Get the ignition side fully perfect before touching carbs ( Lotus e clan and moose are fonts of tuning so should know :D )
4, On variable carbs such as SUs and Strombergs if you get the tickover mixture ( AFR ) absolutely perfect but it doesnt run correctly ( ie. too weak / rich / flat spots ) and everything else like ignition etc is perfect , chances are you have the wrong needle and / or spring fitted , its that simple .
5 , A needle thats perfect for one engine wont nessessarily be good for yours .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by ImpManiac » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:53 am

This tuning business truly fascinates me. :D It sounds like you are gaining large amounts of engine power and knowledge, Noddy! It makes for great reading.

Something like this sort of information would be great content for Impressions, IMHO. :wink:

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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:28 pm

ImpManiac wrote:
Something like this sort of information would be great content for Impressions, IMHO. :wink:

IM 8)
Dont expect it would , its rather boring TBH ,
Im hoping the new needles will solve the last little issue with it , comparison graph certainly looks very promising but fitting them once they arrive will be the proof of it all ,
Theres 530 or so different needles for 1 1/4 SUs and more or less all of them will get it to tickover but only 5 will be really close to getting a great running engine and only one of those will be spot on .So as you can tell it requires lots of research and trials to get things right .
Ive learnt shed loads in the last few weeks and although the vusky has always run well its never been this good
Its amaizing just how small a needle variation can be to make a huge difference to how it performs , Lets just say my new needles are 0.05 mm thinner from station 4 up than the ones coming out :roll:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:20 pm

More learning today
1, Vusky wont " pink " whatever I do :? :shock: , just bogs right down or refuses to accelerate :o
2, The engine doesnt like the sport dizzys advance curve even though its got a sport cam , :?
3, You cant tell the engines rich or lean using the plug colour and / or exhaust pipe colour with unleaded fuel like you could with leaded. Set the carbs so the ceramic part is a mid brown which was the norm on leaded and it bogs down and runs like a crock of s*** :lol:
4, SU carbs tickover in station 3 - 4 on the needle in an Imp , not 1 - 2 like every other car :roll:
5, Its now finally running great though which is a bonus :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:58 pm

Dave (Noddy)
He are some pics of my plugs as requested.

1) Plugs are "indexed" so electrode faces same direction in each cylinder (anal I know, but as a minimum, at least it gives a tad more info when you want to read them). This is the position of the electrodes at time of plug pictures which follow. The red paint = open side of electrode.
Image

2) Using next picture to show the approx position of the open electrode within each cylinder. NOTE: part of the plug BODY on the open side is "shrouded" by the depth of the PLUG HOLE. And of course my chambers have SS grooves
Image

3) My digital camera is rubbish at showing true colours and so subject colours (the plugs in this case) are influenced by the background colour. :x So this next pic is only useful to show that truest colour of the plug electrode is COFFEE NOT WHITE or GREY as shown in the following two pictures.
Image

4). The dirty grey rag background helps to show the carbon pattern a little better in the next two pictures than the brown board in the previous picture which is included to only show the plugs are COFFEE.
Note that the small BLACK carbon area on the plug body corresponds to the area of the plug body that is "shrouded" by the depth of the plug hole. The rest of the plug body and both electrodes and insulator nose are COFFEE.

I'm very happy with these colours at the time of the photo 'cos I've just returned from a long fast run across the Dales returning from the National at the beginning of August. Virtually none of the journey's end was spent ticking over (no traffic) so I'm happy that the SMALL BLACK carbon area is ONLY due to the plug hole shrouding. In other words, if the plugs were NOT shrouded by the plug hole, I'm pretty sure the entire circumference of the body would be COFFEE coloured the same as electrodes.
Also happy with effect of SS grooving so far looking at these plugs.... I guess more definitive evidence for changes in combustion chamber carbon pattern attributable to SS grooving will have to wait until the head is next removed.
Image
Image
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:35 pm

Big thanks for taking the time to do this for me , mine are a milky coffee colour ATM , I now know what to aim for :D :D
Had a look at my Beemers plugs today , plug body is black , ceramic part is magnolia and the electrode is indeed coffee coloured
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Meltdown » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:16 pm

/\/\So there we have it. Successful engine tuners take their coffee white no sugar :lol:
Most informative, L-e-C :D I presume you don't intend to whip the head off for SS groove inspection for a long time yet!
I wonder if there's an advantage to be gained from aligning the electrode as attached to the body to the shrouded area? Could be done by shimming the plug so that it screws in just so. Or is that splitting a hair too far :roll:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:41 pm

Meltdown wrote:/\/\So there we have it. Successful engine tuners take their coffee white no sugar :lol:
Most informative, L-e-C :D I presume you don't intend to whip the head off for SS groove inspection for a long time yet!
I wonder if there's an advantage to be gained from aligning the electrode as attached to the body to the shrouded area? Could be done by shimming the plug so that it screws in just so. Or is that splitting a hair too far :roll:
Don't want to appear as (too much of) a smart arse in case it attracts more death threats by PM :roll: , but I've re-indexed them since exactly as you say...except I haven't looked at them since :oops: .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , On the up

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:58 pm

Vusky seems to be running well , not perfectly perfect but close , plug colours are a tad lighter than ideal but it revs its nuts of , starts and ticks over lovely from cold on slight choke and is very smooth .
Im going to leave it alone and let it settle in for a while and see how she runs then maybe some fine tweaking if nessessary.
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,On the up

Post by moose » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:40 pm

Noddy, leaving alone for a few miles is a good idea as it allows the carbon to burn off the combustion chamber plugs piston crown to prevent the carbon from glowing and causing pre-ignition which makes you retard the timing to compensate then you are missing out from more advance which could effect jetting etc and the whole cycle begins again, so a good run on jet and timing settings is always worth while to get a true plug/ combustion chamber reading of mixture before making any changes (another reason why i think RR's are a waste of money) just becareful that an overly rich of weak mixture can damage an engine but you are in the ball park so no damage will be done.
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,On the up

Post by classiccapsule » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:05 pm

In view of the plug talk, I thought I'd upload this. Just got it from the States. I Like the mangled one, bottom right. The idea that it would still fire after being repeatedly headbutted by a speeding piston is amusing... :D

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Re: Noddys Natterings ,On the up

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:14 pm

Cheers Eddie , I was having some issues with plug colour , Some say that the unleaded we use now doesnt colour the plugs like the old leaded used to , theres info on Stateside sites , some conflicting , some confusing
Im at the " it starts , it runs , it will do " stage :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,On the up

Post by classiccapsule » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:19 pm

You can't help thinking that the bloke that designed the stickers, thought "12 boxes, that'll look about right..." laid it all out and after he had filled 10 boxes was struggling a bit, so he hit one with a hammer for the last one...
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,On the up

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:30 pm

classiccapsule wrote:You can't help thinking that the bloke that designed the stickers, thought "12 boxes, that'll look about right..." laid it all out and after he had filled 10 boxes was struggling a bit, so he hit one with a hammer for the last one...
I recon you'd know before you removed the plug that something was horribly wrong :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,On the up

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:10 pm

Took the Vusky to Prometheus,s today to attempt to sort his car out , Prometheus and I did decide Ive really got the wrong needles fitted and have over compensated by adjusting the mixture .So the ideal scenario of 12 flats out from level ( 17 in reality as it takes 5 flats to get the jet level to start with ) are in fact 9 flats out ( 4 in reality ) on the Vusky :roll:
Still its staying as it is as its running really really well and although the plug colour could be a tiny bit weak it seems within range , certainly if you didnt remove the plugs you wouldnt guess anything was / could be amiss as its pulling like a train :D
Iam going to try L,E C s indexed plug idea although what that will do is anyones guess :lol:
Back to Prometheus,s car , I found a couple things wrong with his dizzy and some dodgy lead and coil connections which got sorted and hes noticed the piston on his rear carb is sticking slightly due to a miss-aligned jet .
Hopefully when this is sorted he should be up and running much better , needle choice is still an issue but one set seems to be very close .
Sorry I couldnt stay later Dave , Mrs Noddy was getting hungry waiting for me to bring the chips home
Good luck :)
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,On the up

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:17 am

All the little things can add up Noddy....and at least with indexed plugs it''ll be a tad easier to read your plugs. :lol:

Oh yes, I've rotated the indexing 180 degrees from the pictures above witht eh open electrode facing into the chamber instead of into the wall and I looked at the plugs yesterday and they looked even better. No pictures yet ...I've got my carbs off fitting a splash shield between the exhaust and carbs to stop the pump mech levers getting salted again this winter and seizing.

Unless the plugs are white and over heated looking I wouldn't be unhappy with light coloured coffee....especially as it's pulling well which suggests you're getting better torque from the engine. I found that in the accepted "power range" of 12.5-13.2 AFRs for most engines the higher (weaker) AFRs nearer 13.2 give better torque for both my Imp engines (Sport and compo). :D

Also if the rolling road plots were ever to reappear on the forum :( ... IIRC the better engines got best power around AFRS of 13 too.
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