Nods news , A fixorage happened

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Re: Noddys Natterings ,All fused up

Post by ImpManiac »

Since you're only using most, if not all of the original loom for switching, you should be safe as can be, Noddy. :D

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Re: Noddys Natterings ,All fused up

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Cheers Mike , thanks for popping over :)

Just fitted the self same heater fan mod that impmann used , blows a goodun and so much more efficient :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,Screen coating

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Singers ready for the off , Ive a mate who does a window coating called DFI which is meant to mean rainwater doesnt stick to the screen at all , Got no mates rates etc coz he cant , anyway ive had the screen , door glass and exterior mirrors done as theres enough in the kit for all this which should last 18 months with a further two coatings at no extra cost .
Just poured a bucket of water on the screen and its still dry :shock: :shock: , should be good for North Wales weather then :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,Wiring diagram

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Ive re-drawn the wiring diagram to include all the fuse boxes etc ive fitted in the Singer .
Im going to keep a copy in the car , if anyone wants to see it at national just come and ask :)
Not keen on posting it as
A, if someone does this rewire and they get it wrong il get the blame :roll:
B, Image would be too small anyway given the size limits on here
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,Back from Cymru

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Just got back from a great national , 614 miles of trouble free Imping in glorious Wales , what could be better, :D :D
Great to catch up with every one and sorry to those who I meant to say Hi to but just ran out of weekend. :roll: :oops:
Special thanks to Meltdown ( you know why :wink: )
Special sorry to Prometheus who I was meant to lend some oil to but didnt remember until Bluith Wells which is a tad late :oops:
Special thanks to all the organizers and to Malcolm Anderson for emptying my wallet with such speed :roll: :lol:
Big thanks to Mrs Noddy for putting up with it all

THANKS EVERYONE
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,Back from the national

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Yep good to meet you at last. I'll be copying your perspex sun visor at some point...... :wink:
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,Back from the national

Post by ImpJimbo »

Thank you to you Noddy for getting my Chamois to run so well. Cheers. :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,That garage

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Another shot of the Garage that Baz found , highlight of my piccy taking and a fascinating blast in the past , Garage last sold fuel 20 years ago and hasnt been touched since .The owner did come over once Baz started looking in the windows but seemed fine one we started talking .
So with thanks to Dilwyn the owner heres my best shots of it.
Note the Lodge plugs sign at the bottom

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Me and SU carbs

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Many of you know im an advocate of SU carbs but this came about by accident and the transition was far from easy :roll:
Following on on from my 998 exploding years ago I fitted a temporary 875 which didnt like my 28/36 Weber off the 998 .
So Both cars at this point were running Solex carbs and were plodding on nicely
I happened apon a NOS twin SU inlet manifold by C @ T on ebay and managed to get it for pennys :D from there the experiment began.
I got a pair of seized knackered carbs from a local scrappys of a MK3 Spitfire that had been there so long it had snapped in half :o , I bought a rebuild kit from Burlen fuels and after much faffing about got stuff to actually move on the things.
At the time I knew no one in the club or any where else for that matter running twin SUs on an Imp but did find an old article recommending NO 1 needles and a red spring , good place to start I thought .
Well after fitting it did indeed run but not very well , in fact the Solex was better , I had massive issues with the choke set up and the throttle linkage plus still the wrong needles, I found a website called minty which did needle comparisons so plumped for a choice using an un-educated guess , I got it wrong 5 times in total which was quite a lot of money as needles are £20 a pair .
Not knowing exactly what I was doing didnt help but reading loads of stuff on the internet I soon fathomed out what to do and where I was going horribly wrong.
In all it took 3 months of playing about with needles , different damper oil , balancing and just experimenting to get get it running nicely , added to this there was very little space for air filters so I made my own by cutting down some old K @ N filters
I did all this on the Vusky as the engine was not very good and running it weak or rich wasnt going to harm an already borked engine much anyway.
Ive learned shedloads since those early days and being self taught ( no one to ask :cry: ) ive managed to sort the Singer with a pair with comparative ease and the swap-over only took a couple of days to fit and set up correctly .
So far from plain sailing but worth it in the end ,
I think theres 4 of us in the club running these carbs now , maybe I started something :lol: :lol:

Heres the Minty needle site
http://www.mintylamb.co.uk/suneedle/

And Burlen fuels
http://www.burlen.co.uk/
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Me and SU carbs

Post by bazzateer »

At least 4 Dave, I'm sure there's many more either running them or, Like Tim, planning to. :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Me and SU carbs

Post by ChrisBenoy »

I have to admit that if I wasn't able to get a 28/36 for my car or any future cars then an attempt at a pair of SUs would be my next choice. I've never used strommies but i've seen so many problems with them that I don't think i'd care for. I've got an adapter for a single Su on a solex manifold as well so may try that some time point.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Me and SU carbs

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

If my 998 was still with us so would the 28/36 , The SUs were tried out of desperation , there had to be something better than a solex and more reliable than Strombergs and at the time cheap .
Finding that inlet manifold was the catalyst .
The Vusky still has the carbs from the snapped Spitfire and apart from a pair of " new type " needle valves , the odd tweak ( usually summer to winter and vise versa ) and a briefy experiment with different needles Ive not touched them in the 7 or so years theyve been on :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Me and SU carbs

Post by 617sqn »

My ex-Slik50 budget saloons Rover SD1 V8 ran twin SU's. When the original race engine blew up ( a piston ring land gave way at walking pace, and bounced around the engine for a short while. Making a mess ), and following the ensuing re-build i decided to look into the set-up and bought an SU needles book from Southern Carbs. I plotted a number of needle dimensions on graph paper that looked promising and from the original engines' starting point I managed to find needles that offered a decent range of performance. When, for example, I found a small flat-spot at certain revs, it was feasible to look at the needle book, plot it on a new or existing graph and make direct comparisons. This method worked very well and helped produce a very tractable engine, with a 285 cam, that was easily capable of embarrassing the fuel injected Vitesse versions in straight fights.

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Me and SU carbs

Post by moose »

Ive not touched them in the 7 or so years theyve been on


poor maintenance regime there Mr Noddy, i thought you were beter than that :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Me and SU carbs

Post by bazzateer »

I was told if you touch them you'll go blind! :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Ive been faffing around with the Vusky lately to see if theres any more umph to be had as its getting a bit tired .
Ive had a play with the advance curve on the dizzy by altering springs and weights using bits of a knackered sport dizzy and other stuff lying about , re timed it its going a lot lot better and is really revy ( Not technically done but a great way to learn )
Next step is to weaken the low end mixture a tiny bit and richen the mixture further up the rev range a tad as per the gastester at my friendly garage , using the chart i posted earlier on here ive picked and ordered a pair of needles , we shall see if its better or not once they arrive and are fitted .
Im Definitely heading in the right direction and hope to get further improvements with more tweaking
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning

Post by kilty »

Nice one geez! Who needs rolling roads and mapped ignition eh!? :wink:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

And Noddy, just think what you could do with an on board wideband AFR meter....like file you own bespoke SU needle profile to give you the optimum AFRs across the rev range giving optimum torque/power, economy, cleaner oil, less bore wear etc.

I know the initial outlay is a bit high........ realistically about £200 -£300 for a complete kit(my TechEdge 2J2 system is currently about £250 from TriggerWheels)) but they are mashusively educational and transferable from car to car too. And with petrol so expensive ATM, a wideband set-up is only equivalent to three tanks of petrol or about one years insurance (money for nothing) for a modern!
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Great idea Pete , not sure my tired Vusky engine would benefit that much , I will pick your brains on this though , piccys of your setup might help and a how to , not up on this modern stuff TBH , I iz oldschool :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

This will now be my " Im miserable " picture , pinched from the Sherborne castle thread
Cheers Drew :lol: :lol:

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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

^^^ Crikey, that picture proves you are a dedicated follower of f..classic car shows!

Yeah I understand the reluctance to install a digital LED style 52 mm dial like the Techedge LA1 I have....my first Dynojet /Autometer installation (which proved unreliable) has a old school full scale "needle indicator" analogue 52 mm dial. I have been meaning to hook up the old school analogue Autometer dial to the Techedge 2J2 "ECU" which has a WB 0-5v analogue output suitable for external loggers and, apparently, moving coil dials.

The TechEdge LA1 digital LED 52 mm dial is in fact a "programmable serial device" and can display RPM, TPS (or MAP), AFR, direct and buffered Lambda, battery voltage, or any other configurable 0-5v "user" inputs like temp sensors or whatever and has a logger-trigger function too so it's not directly comparable to a simple AFR moving coil analogue dial (which is just a glorified volt meter). The serial cable to the 52mm LA1 dial doubles up as a serial input into a Laptop for logging purposes too.

So you could just buy the 2J2 wideband controller plus an O2 sensor & weldable exhaust boss and connect it up to your laptop and forget about a permanent dial for the time being (which reduces the outlay to £167) ...maybe buying a simple analogue Autometer (or other make) AFR dial if you want a simple reference to AFRs on the move at all times...which I recommend as the on-road data is VERY educational...knowledge IS power :wink: )
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning

Post by skamanfrank »

I've been looking at Innovate LC1 wideband controllers, and have a plan for my own LCD gauge to display it on (top secret at the moment though ;) haha!) None of this tacky gauge stuff for me :P
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning , new needles are in .

Post by kilty »

8) I`ll bring the cookies Dave, leave the brolly at home it`s gonna be a dry one :roll:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning , new needles are in .

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :lol:
Especially as Ive got a Beemer although not one of those :)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning , new needles are in .

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Rolling road tomorrow for the Vusky :roll:
Standard new readings for a HC engine is
BHP gross 41.7 , net 39 @ 5000rpm
Max Torque net in lb ft is 52 or 7.1 in kg/m
Max BMEP is 147 lb.sq/in or 20.3 in kg/cm squared @ 2800RPM

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO , Whats the betting with an engine I built over 10 years ago with 70.000 miles added its half all that :lol: :lol: :lol:
Perhaps a guess from some as to just how worn my motor actually is :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit of tuning , new needles are in .

Post by ChrisBenoy »

Depending on the RR it might even show as being about 50bhp, thats roughly what standard (even worn standard) imp engines seem to show these days.

Will be interesting to see though, it is a carefully tuned engine, rather than out and out power i'd expect to see a very flat curve with no dramatic shifts.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Rolling road results

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Just back from the Dyno test , not too bad really , mixtures a bit rich low down , then weaker mid range but all in all OK for an old engine.
51bhp @ 6000 RPM ( Didnt want to go any higher but it was still climbing )
46BHP @ the flywheel .
Not too bad for an L4 built by me over 10 years ago and only 4 less than a sport :o :D :D :D :D
Colours on the chart never came out so to make it clear
Top lines are Torque
Middle lines that run almost straight are BHP
Bottom lines are AFR
Could be tuned a bit better but good enough for me as im not racing it , its running well so il leave it alone now
One thing they did say BEFORE the test
If it starts running way too weak at any point we shut it down and wont continue past that point , only up to it

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by M'coli »

That sounds alright, does that - good stuff. What SU needles are you using?
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Dave

First of all the main interest relates to torque and AFR ...the power runs are very similar because that's the consistency of the physics of the engine as an "air pump".

The two runs mirror the AFR trace and its the torque thats mainly affected by the drop in AFRs on the second run ...best guess will be rising air temp (= less air) at the air filters /in hotter induction tracts as the cause of drop in AFR and torque. .

Reading the AFR curves from left to right it looks like the throttle was blatted wide open at about 2000 rpm. So I guess that's when the AFRs dive to 9.6 as the piston is held down by the piston damper oil (that is if SUs are the same as Stroms in that respect -never had SUs so you tell me).

As the revs rise the AFR rise too as proportionally more air is mixed to the fuel as the piston damper is overcome.

What damper oil do you use? ...asking because a obviously a thinner oil might prevent the AFR going so low.

Assuming the RR AFRs compare to my system, then 9.6 AFR = bogging down in my experience. you can see the torque curve improve with the rising AFR and then deteriorate again as the AFR dips at the mid point.

What the dip is I don't really know but I guess it's a physical phenomenon related either to breathing, fueling or ignition eg:
  • beathing: a dip and revcovery in exhaust scavenging / breathing associated with cam / ports/ exhaust system design which you can't do much about by tweakingt carbs ....or

    fueling (1): the SU needle profile is providing more fuel at that point (? a shoulder on the needle part he way along?) or

    fueling (2): the SU piston, or piston damper is sticking momentarily somehow
    (Because you've got twin SUs it could just be one SU playing up in that respect )

    ignition (1): advance beyond 3600 rpm is wrong

    ignition (2): centrifugal plate sticking (less likely I'd guess)
Max torque is produced on an AFR of 12.5 @ 4500rpm (12.5 is a guess based on the 9.6 min and 13.3 max as the AFR scale numbers are is missing!)
But you can't assume because the torque curve then drops off as the AFR rises that less torque would be produced if the AFR was 13.3 at 4500 because the physics of the engine tune could be playing a part....which is clearly the case because the second run has lower AFRs and but the same shaped torque and AFR curves!

Anyway enough food for thought for now but I'd still be aiming for higher AFRs (12.8 - 13.2) at the lower revs to gain more torque and even better drive-ability. So less fuel or more air is needled lower down; eg less fuel = a slightly fatter needle lower down and /or the piston damper is a bit too damper-ish :lol: :wink:

EDIT: But having said all that :roll: I'd be VERY keen to optimise the ignition curve first 'cos THAT alone could produce the overall low AFRS when you boot it (so mechanical advance only - no vacuum obviously) and the shape changes in the torque and AFR curves ...
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Meltdown »

Good to see that your tinkering has paid off, you must be a happy chappy :D Did they tweak anything for you?
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Thanks for the info Pete . To answer some of your questions .
Damper oil is SUs own so quite thin
There is no flat spot / hesitation / bogging down I can feel when pulling away , it still needs a tiny bit of choke to start cold , Does start instantly when hot and ticks over even , I do think its a tad rich though as you say as it can be a bit smelly ticking over .
Dip confused him , needle profile has a very slight dip that corresponds with the big dip on the graph , il check the needle profile but its a tiny variation so this could be it
Piston is smooth and free.
On my CO meter the % rises a fair bit when you blip the throttle , then drops off
Dizzy is a NOS 41422 standard 25d4 , theres no dwell variation and the mark on the pulley is 100% stable on tickover and higher revs , vacuum advance is fine as is the centrifugal backplate , perhaps the curve is wrong , its got a sport cam but ive no sport dizzy to match it .
I know it could be better but just how to do this without spending money ive not got is a mystery :)
Im Fairly sure its not going to melt valves or blow up which is a good thing , unless you think it might Pete :?: :?: :roll:
Just how far do you go with a boggo L4 :?: :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Noddy wrote:
Lotus-e-Clan wrote:
[
EDIT: But having said all that :roll: I'd be VERY keen to optimise the ignition curve first 'cos THAT alone could produce the overall low AFRS when you boot it (so mechanical advance only - no vacuum obviously) and the shape changes in the torque and AFR curves ...
Just how do I do this :roll: :? :)
Well the first thing to do is to plot the actual curve as it is now with absolutely no changes following the dyno test.

Firstly note Static = and the number of distributor degrees actually stamped on the centrifugal advance stop inside the dizzy/
then disconnect the vacuum and note the MECHANICAL advance in CRANK degrees with a strobe for:
  • 1000 rpm (or whatever tickover you use)
    1500
    2000
    2500
    3000
    3500
    4000
    4500
    5000
    5500

    6000 ...or upto the point where the advance simply stops note the exact revs when the advance stops
The most interesting point on the curve at the moment will be 3500 - 5500 where the torque and AFR curves dip then recovers and then dips again.

Once you've got that data post it up possibly with a picture of the springs inside the dizzy (just for info). This is mainly of academic interest /education because the solution will most likely be conversion of your dizzy to a Sport Spec advance curve (no brainer really :lol: )

Now then, it's possible to change the springs at low cost to convert the dizzy to a sport spec assuming the centrifugal advance stop is on the money for a Sport spec (but that can be tweaked too).
The distributor Doctor on line has a comprehensive list of Lucas dizzy specs. So the starting point is to email him the correct dizzy number for a Sport spec 25D4 and he'll send you the correct primary and secondary springs for a few quid.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Thanks again , heres the figures from the WSM , I will check mine when the neighbours are all away but as its a NEW dizzy im hoping this will help for now ,
Il just post up the ones in red from your post if any match and il use the decelerate on engine figures

1000 RPM , standard 0 to 3 degrees ---------------------------------------------- Sport 0 to 4 degrees
2000 RPM 10 TO 14 ---------------------------------------------- 16 TO 20
3000 RPM 15 to 19 --------------------------------------------- 20 to 24
3500 RPM 17 to 21 --------------------------------------------- 22 to 26

Stupid book goes no higher
Advance on mine is 14 degrees and IIRC a sport is 17
Im going to leave the carbs well alone for now but would like to try a sport dizzy or convert mine , Again IIRC its the length of the stop ( the part with the degrees marked ) that determins the over all degrees of advance , by shortening the stop lenght and changing the springs i think its possible to convert mine , vacuum advance unit is also different
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by ChrisBenoy »

Ah I hadn't realised that the Vac unit was different, when I built my dizzy into a sport one (from a sport unit that had inexplicably failed) I changed the stop and the springs over but not the vac unit. Will have to do this soon and see if it helps.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Welding / brazing stuff is the least of my worries :)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by impmann »

FWIW - the Distributor Doctor quoted me £175 to rebuild one of my Sport dizzies. Based on the aggro, plus the fitment on the correct parts (not Chinese crap), I think thats reasonable.

I've got a couple of Sport dizzies here that need rebuilding and one day will get around to having them done.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Vuskys rolling road results

Post by enfielder2000 »

"The sport is marked 3.10.10"

Where is this number show, I can't see anything on my dizzy

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Lotus e clan to the front desk please

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Calling Pete AKA Lotus e clan,
Ive managed to find an old knackered sport dizzy and have retro fitted the bits into my dizzy
Revs like a mad thing at a mad things party but its now running leaner , am I right in guessing that the burn is now more efficient and burning more of the fuel hence the lighter plugs :?: ,
Its certainly quicker off the mark and screams its nuts off even like this :)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Calling Lotus e clan

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

For sure, (my favorite F1 phrase), under load, on wide open throttle, a very low AFR indicates incomplete combustion. I used this fact to home into the best advance for a particular rev band on wide open throttle...ie the best advance setting gives you a higher AFR than a retarded one or indeed one that it too advanced...hard to believe I know, but during this particular method both too advanced AND too retarded give lower AFRs than the optimum advanced setting (regardless of the fueling ...within reason). I got this AFR method to set the advance curve off the net BTW...it worked for me.

The nearer to 14.7 you get, then the more efficient the combustion...but you NEVER want an AFR of 14.7 (or higher :shock: ) on WOT because of the extreme temperature of the burn. At WOT, full power, with good torque, is best found on AFRs of 12.5 to 13.4. My engine feels torquier though on nearer 13.2 at WOT than nearer 12.5, that's for sure.

On part throttle you can get away with a 14.7 AFR but when you go beyond 15 it'll start to misfire especially as the load increases.

SO if you have no misfire on part throttle, or under gentle acceleration on part throttle then there's not much to worry about there.

Obviously you know already that when reading the plugs you need to distinguish between the effect of weakness on part throttle and weakness under full load. I know from my WinLog logs that the amount of time spent on WOT is extremely low even when driving fast on the road but that depends on the state of your engine and gearing of course ...a low powered engine on std gears will be driven on WOT much more often than a high powered one on a CR box.

The other thing to consider is separating the effect of the mechanical advance from the vacuum advance. I you want to be sure the full power WOT advance is right then disconnect the vacuum and do a test drive...if the plugs look weak after that then it's more important you sort that out than when the vacuum is connected (OK it'll run shit on part throttle withOUT the vac advance but you know what I'm getting at.)

Crikey, I've probably gone off track and not answered your original question....but it might be in there somewhere. :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by moose »

but the air leak will effect things.

Dave not having a pop but this is a good example of why everything has to be tip top before going to a RR and modern RR's are poor for old vehicles. with my carb man and my crypton tuner we can usually make for a smoother quicker car than most RR tuned cars, old cars are basic so the basics have to work to their optimum. i know all this is fun tuning rather than trying to win the WRC but how happy would you be now if the split pipe had not been there (would show up on the crypton tuner) and you had that home tuned sport dizzy? it is a serious increase in power and torque (i.e. driveabilty, wanting to rev etc) if you can feel it through the seat of your pants and there is more to come when you now re-tune the carbs to the engine that is wanting to run better. so another bit of info gleened it maybe ten years old and built by you but that was not what was holding the engine back you have built a corker of a motor and if the RR knew what they were doing they would have told you the car felt flat due to lack of advance or slow advance or a combination of both. i now stock altered curve dizzy's for most cars as many people build a cammed engine with massive carbs etc and then to save money leave the old dizzy and no amount of persuasion will make them buy a dizzy off me(even though they are happy for you to try to tweak the carbs at £35 per hour as they believe that is where the fault is and this will release all the power) until you say well try this one i have, it is not 100% for yor engine but... they go for a drive and getting my dizzy back is then the problem.
well done on this home tuning and if i had known you wanted to play this much i would have sent my old crypton FOC down to the national for you. For those that remember the old crypton tuners they were and excellent bit of kit for the day lots of people who did not know what they were doing could play and reccomend new parts which made neglected cars go better (but if you just serviced the neglected car it have the same effect you would just lose out on the + bit on the bill for clipping it to the crypton) if you really know how to use one you can detect bent dizzy shafts, differences in HT lead resistance, advance speed, advance start and finish to the curve etc etc
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

No problem with pop thing , Vacuum advance was checked a few days before using my " remove the pipe and suck " method . I misled slightly as it was the union for the pipe and not the pipe itself , probably split when i reconnected the pipe :roll: :roll: .
Anyway I will continue to play doing small one alteration at a time and see how good i can get it .
RR was just a way of monitoring how things are so far , they cant take the place of real world driving and the sense you get when something is not quite right or indeed spot on .
It certainly has the potential to go a lot better and ive already made inroads , its just time , and the usual funds that hold you back
This trial and error method can be very frustrating but its a great way to learn and ive already gained a fair bit of new knowledge .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by moose »

i run them all round on the rally car and as the rules say i can only run viva type disc conversion that widens the track and i feel will upset the handling i am sticking with drums all round, i would like to do a back to back comparison of any front brake set up but as i have never lost confidence in the drums setup i will concentrate on rallying rather than testing, i am glad to here that first hand experiance they compliment a front disc conversion well, i have driven a standard imp with disc conversion and felt the front was overbraked a bias box would of helped but if you can get the back to retard the car with nearly equal pull the bias difference can be lessend.

Sorry Dave back to needles on those carbs of yours, what make are they again? :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , OH PIFFLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

OK mike, mine are Micra 12 inch and not too overbraked on the front compared to some but the rear now is working as it should and making a bigger contribution to the braking than before....'cos I've change nothing on the front ...just fitted your rear shoes..it can only be down to the rear shoes and the ones I took off were not worn out either! Not saying Malcs shoes are not any good ...just that these are better!

Sorry Noddy-Dave for hijack.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning stuff

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Ive learnt a few things since last week :)
1, A RR bears no resembalance whatsoever to real world driving , what was fine ( ish ) at WOT isnt under normal use
2, My latest needles are wrong but are very close to an ideal so another pair on their way which will hopefully sort this out.
3, Get the ignition side fully perfect before touching carbs ( Lotus e clan and moose are fonts of tuning so should know :D )
4, On variable carbs such as SUs and Strombergs if you get the tickover mixture ( AFR ) absolutely perfect but it doesnt run correctly ( ie. too weak / rich / flat spots ) and everything else like ignition etc is perfect , chances are you have the wrong needle and / or spring fitted , its that simple .
5 , A needle thats perfect for one engine wont nessessarily be good for yours .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by ImpManiac »

This tuning business truly fascinates me. :D It sounds like you are gaining large amounts of engine power and knowledge, Noddy! It makes for great reading.

Something like this sort of information would be great content for Impressions, IMHO. :wink:

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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

More learning today
1, Vusky wont " pink " whatever I do :? :shock: , just bogs right down or refuses to accelerate :o
2, The engine doesnt like the sport dizzys advance curve even though its got a sport cam , :?
3, You cant tell the engines rich or lean using the plug colour and / or exhaust pipe colour with unleaded fuel like you could with leaded. Set the carbs so the ceramic part is a mid brown which was the norm on leaded and it bogs down and runs like a crock of s*** :lol:
4, SU carbs tickover in station 3 - 4 on the needle in an Imp , not 1 - 2 like every other car :roll:
5, Its now finally running great though which is a bonus :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Dave (Noddy)
He are some pics of my plugs as requested.

1) Plugs are "indexed" so electrode faces same direction in each cylinder (anal I know, but as a minimum, at least it gives a tad more info when you want to read them). This is the position of the electrodes at time of plug pictures which follow. The red paint = open side of electrode.
Image

2) Using next picture to show the approx position of the open electrode within each cylinder. NOTE: part of the plug BODY on the open side is "shrouded" by the depth of the PLUG HOLE. And of course my chambers have SS grooves
Image

3) My digital camera is rubbish at showing true colours and so subject colours (the plugs in this case) are influenced by the background colour. :x So this next pic is only useful to show that truest colour of the plug electrode is COFFEE NOT WHITE or GREY as shown in the following two pictures.
Image

4). The dirty grey rag background helps to show the carbon pattern a little better in the next two pictures than the brown board in the previous picture which is included to only show the plugs are COFFEE.
Note that the small BLACK carbon area on the plug body corresponds to the area of the plug body that is "shrouded" by the depth of the plug hole. The rest of the plug body and both electrodes and insulator nose are COFFEE.

I'm very happy with these colours at the time of the photo 'cos I've just returned from a long fast run across the Dales returning from the National at the beginning of August. Virtually none of the journey's end was spent ticking over (no traffic) so I'm happy that the SMALL BLACK carbon area is ONLY due to the plug hole shrouding. In other words, if the plugs were NOT shrouded by the plug hole, I'm pretty sure the entire circumference of the body would be COFFEE coloured the same as electrodes.
Also happy with effect of SS grooving so far looking at these plugs.... I guess more definitive evidence for changes in combustion chamber carbon pattern attributable to SS grooving will have to wait until the head is next removed.
Image
Image
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Big thanks for taking the time to do this for me , mine are a milky coffee colour ATM , I now know what to aim for :D :D
Had a look at my Beemers plugs today , plug body is black , ceramic part is magnolia and the electrode is indeed coffee coloured
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Re: Noddys Natterings , learning more stuff

Post by Meltdown »

/\/\So there we have it. Successful engine tuners take their coffee white no sugar :lol:
Most informative, L-e-C :D I presume you don't intend to whip the head off for SS groove inspection for a long time yet!
I wonder if there's an advantage to be gained from aligning the electrode as attached to the body to the shrouded area? Could be done by shimming the plug so that it screws in just so. Or is that splitting a hair too far :roll:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , On the up

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Vusky seems to be running well , not perfectly perfect but close , plug colours are a tad lighter than ideal but it revs its nuts of , starts and ticks over lovely from cold on slight choke and is very smooth .
Im going to leave it alone and let it settle in for a while and see how she runs then maybe some fine tweaking if nessessary.
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