Topic dedicated to HSA Speed Championship Class N

Post by **pimpdriver** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:01 pm

Stuart, i better get polishing the trailer

Peter K.
With the new categories from the MSA it is getting more difficult to do this. With a standard road car you can compete without any extra safety gear, but if you modify the car to take it out of the roadgoing class, i.e. fit perspex windows, remove the interior then you are in the modified category. Once you are in this category extra safety equipment is mandatory. If we made the category Roadgoing Production then clans are out because they didn't make enough cars. If we went for the next category Roadgoing specialist cars, then all cars need full interior, heaters seats (drivers seat can be replaced with a competition one)
glass windows all round etc, this would rule out the cars that already compete. If we went for the next category Modified Limited Production cars, Imps are okay, Clans are okay ( for this year, min 100 cars) but Davrians aren't eligable because they didn't make enough. So we have gone for Modified Specialist Production cars which only need 20 to be made in any one year - simples. The main reason for the clamp down/categories change is that once the class is specified as in a certain category the Scrutineers know what safety rules have to apply to each class. Also it helps to standardise classes around the country.
So, before your head explodes, if you have a standard car you cannot enter class N anymore, you must have at least a rear rollbar and a 4 point harness, along with Helmet, Overalls and New for this year - flame proof Gloves.

Eric

Post by **Lotus-e-Clan** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:33 pm

OK Eric I'm still a bit unsure...sooooooooo if I went to a meeting in the Clan with

full glass and interior but slight changes like:
carpets but minimal sound proofing
heater but not in the standard place...say I moved it up front for weight redistribution and piped in the hot air
door cards, rear bulkhead trim and rear shelf trim replaced with very light plastic panels (covered with carbon fibre film to look nice)
a high-back race seat with 4, 5 or 6 point harness
rear radiator
a fully modified engine and box
road tyres
....but NO cage

....I would be able to drive in a road-going class or are the road going classes subject to minimum numbers in production?

Post by **Woodstock** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:03 pm

Ref Road Going Cars entered in Modified Production.

I could be wrong, as I've not really thoroughly read this years blue book yet. (Fascinating read by the way, almost as good as counting sheep!)
But I thought, even if you entered the Mod Prod Class, as long as the car entered is road legal, ie still fitted with all lights, road legal tyres, mot and insurance etc, then the likes of cage, harnesses and fire extinguishers were ony recomended.

Just thought I'd try and to the confusion, sorry.

Cheers
Graham

Post by **pimpdriver** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:42 pm

Peter K.
The new Categories for production based cars are

Road-Going series production cars - min quantity 1000 per year
Road-Going Specialist cars - min quantity 20 per year
Modified Limited production cars - min quantity 100 per year (might change to 1000 next year)
Modified Specialist cars - min quantity 20 per year

So Road-going Clans ( and Davrians ) can enter Road-Going Specalist cars because more than 20 were made in a year.
Road-Going Specalist cars and Road-Going series production cars - Rollcage recommend but not compulsory.

So at an event you can enter Road-Going Specalist cars but if any part of your car means your not eligable for that class if you want to move into Modified classes you need the cage - thats what the rules say, if its implimented is another matter

The problem we have for a championship is the only way we can have cars from all the above 4 categories in a Class is to make the Class for Modified Specialist cars which allows all the cars in but all the cars need to conform to the safety regs for the Category of the Class. We are not allow to relax the relgulations, i.e. we can't drop the Mandatory Rollcage reguired for Modified Specialist cars, but you are allowed to tighten the regs, so we can ban slicks and all cars without imp engines.

I will clarify a few points but this is i believe how the new Categories work. I agree with what the MSA are trying to do, to standise classes around the country,but as usual with the MSA, confusion reigns and you have to be a lawyer to work out the Blue-Book. The story is going to be the same with a load of one make classes with cars that are in different categories.

Eric

Eric

Post by **pimpdriver** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:50 pm

Graham
I will check up on this

Eric

Post by **Woodstock** » Sun May 30, 2010 10:18 pm

Just need to post a big special thank you to Graeme and Dave Williamson for the loan of Graemes crash hat at Mallory Park Sprint on Sat 29th May.
Despite sailing through scrutineering at MIRA the week before, it appeared that I had overlooked the new rules and my hat was no longer valid!
Luckily, I had entered the kit car class and Graeme had entered the classic car class, so there was time for me to borrow Graemes hat, make my run, and then deliver it to Graemes dad, Dave, who was waiting at the paddock entrance to give it to Graeme for his run.
This was a brilliant event by the way, despite some early concerns over some vague instructions, and also the horrendous rain, it all turned out great in the end and I think the two Imps (well, 1 Imp and a Davrian) seemed to attract more attention than usual. We even had a dryish third run.
In the kit car class, it meant I was up against 1600 and 1700 Westfieds, so I was chuffed to bits to actually beat one of them and be within 9/10 sec of 2 of the others.
Thanks again Graeme
Cheers
Graham

Post by **Woodstock** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:30 pm

Do we have any new condenders for this years (2011) Hillclimb and Sprint Championship?
I'm afraid I've been lacking some motorvation over the last couple of years, as our numbers are starting to dwindle.
As we keep on saying, the various special Imp classes have been merged, so if we don't keep supporting it, it could disapear alltogether.

Picture here is from the paddock at last years Mallory Park Sprint:

Lets see who intends to join in this year
Thanks
Graham

Post by **ImpManiac** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:56 pm

If I can get my car running again this year, which I hope to do soon, then I might be able to make one or two rounds. I cannot promise and I will not because I am the master of saying I'll do this or that and then not getting around to it

but I really do want to do this, so shall try. Money is the biggest problem for me, though.

But I want to do this, so shall pull out the stops.

IM

Post by **Lotus-e-Clan** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:12 pm

Post by **bks974c** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:42 pm

[quote="Lotus-e-Clan"]I don't want to fit a roll cage or plumbed in extinguisher at this point.

[/quote]

Hi Pete

Your a braver man than, I know the clan is supposed to be strong but ........

Good luck in getting out this year.

Scott

Post by **Lotus-e-Clan** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:13 pm

Well the 998 is currently stripped. Just getting deck heights sorted then its reassembly time and back into the Imp. It's about time I reappeared but torn between doing events on Jersey , doing the Gurston championship or the HSA.

Travelling for the HSA is a major factor and its nearly as cheap to do Jersey, Gurston being my local hill is the cheapest but means running the same event effectively all year.

Or maybe its time to find an event for the Clan?

Post by **onomatopoeia** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:32 pm

pimpdriver wrote: The problem we have for a championship is the only way we can have cars from all the above 4 categories in a Class is to make the Class for Modified Specialist cars which allows all the cars in but all the cars need to conform to the safety regs for the Category of the Class. We are not allow to relax the relgulations, i.e. we can't drop the Mandatory Rollcage reguired for Modified Specialist cars, but you are allowed to tighten the regs, so we can ban slicks and all cars without imp engines.

I can't believe I missed this and given it's over a year old it's probably resolved. However, the categories are mandatory, but there is nothing to stop a championship class spanning multiple catgegories. Championship scores can be calculated independent of what class cars run in at any given event. I didn't look at the HSA championship regs this year so don't know if they've done this.

Graham Williamson was at the Silverstone event yesterday as I saw the Imp from course control, but the 20 minute lunch break for the officials and marshals meant I didn't have chance to go and have a chat and nose around his car

.

Post by **Meltdown** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:41 pm

I saw the car in the paddock. If I'd known it was GW I'd have stuck around...haven't seen him for 20 years or so

Post by **pimpdriver** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:23 pm

Mark
The HSA classes are scored independent of the class the car is run on the day, but - our championship regs were passed back to us last year when they went to approval, because we had classes the had multiple categories. We had to do some work to appease the MSA, which was very galling to see at the first event I went to, to see a Ginetta class with cars from all categories, road and racing cars. As usual, the MSA rules are very variable, or how they are interpreted. We had to change our rules to get MSA approval, i can't see what we could do different.

Eric

Post by **19James** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:32 pm

benwick3 wrote:Gerry,

One thing that comes out of all this detailed cost analysis is that there's no such thing as cheap motorsport. Also too much detail is not healthy for ones other half!

Pete Richards

I think you'll find that PCTs are usually about £20 each driver and you are going all day which really is good value for money

Cheers, James

Post by **pimpdriver** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:40 pm

We have 5 entrants in class N this year as below

Stuart Cairney Hillman Imp 998
Graham Cashmore Davrian Mk 6 1040
Ifan Davies Davrian Mk6 998
Mark Paterson Ginetta G15 998
Graeme Williamson Hillman Imp 930

Great to see 2 new guys in Ifan and Mark, along with the guys who kept the class alive last year - thanks guys.

If you fancy a go, we are a friendly championship, with lots of Imp history. Its never cheap this motorsport lark, i'm not going to start the arguments about who's discipline is cheaper or better miles per pound, but Hillclimbing and sprinting is fun and relatively affordable. Have a go - its only money

Post by **onomatopoeia** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:29 pm

pimpdriver wrote:Mark
The HSA classes are scored independent of the class the car is run on the day, but - our championship regs were passed back to us last year when they went to approval, because we had classes the had multiple categories. We had to do some work to appease the MSA, which was very galling to see at the first event I went to, to see a Ginetta class with cars from all categories, road and racing cars. As usual, the MSA rules are very variable, or how they are interpreted. We had to change our rules to get MSA approval, i can't see what we could do different.

Eric

Unfortunately nothing. While the MSA don't make the regulations (sort of), the permenant staff do get to be the final arbiters in things like issuing championship permits and yes, some of the decisions do lack consistency.

I'll stop there before I start naming names and get in trouble.

Post by **StuartC** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:24 pm

Some in car footage from Gurston last weekend (non - HSA). Not a particularly quick run but good fun nonetheless.....

This coming Sunday 24th is the HSA championship round at Loton Park where the runners include Eric Morrey in action with the Clan along with Mark Paterson in his G15 and Stuart Cairney in his Imp. Loton Park is 9 miles west of Shrewsbury in the village of Alberbury

Post by **StuartC** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:24 pm

If you've ever been to Gurston Down you will know just how steep the final climb is up Burke's Rise from Ashes to the finish line. Last weekend saw the HSA visit Gurston and 'Pimpdriver' Eric clocked 95mph over the finish line in the 998 turbo Clan!!
To put that in perspective on a good day when I've skipped the lunchtime cheeseburger my stripped out full race 998 Imp will clock 75mph over the finish......
Eric's best time of 35.53 seconds also left a few Scoobies and Evos in his wake, not to mention the odd Westfield.
Fantastic achievement!

Post by **chris** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:23 pm

This winter/next year (first half) Im turning my purple imp into a track car, want to do a semi space frame, propbably rawlson arches and will have a bike engine in the middle.

Hopefully itll be eligible to have a go in a class?? Not really sure but want to try and aim for a class that Ill be allowed in!

Chris

Post by **pimpdriver** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:57 pm

Cheers Stuart, good weekend wasn't it. Graham (Voodoo on here) and I had a great tussle all weekend, and i'm not sure where that last time came from - but i'll take it.

Chris
With your anticipated mods, there will be only one class for you in Hillclimbs and Sprints, and that's Sports Libre. This is basically a class for any car that doesn't conform to the Production classes but whose wheels are covered. (i.e not a single seater open wheeler).The only downside is you must have a full cage and a proper seat and a 6 point harness for safety. As soon as you swap engines from what was fitted by the manufacturer, you are in Sports Libre. As long as you keep it under 2 litre you can run it on a 'B' licence, i.e. the starting licence.

Any more help , just ask

Eric

Post by **chris** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:52 pm

wow cheers for the information Eric, looks like Ive got my work cut out for me then! Would the full cage need to be a safety devices type all marked up? Or would say a 32mm CDS made cage be sufficient?

Do you think I would stand a chance in Sports Libre? I would stay with the imp engine/box but if anything happened mid season I couldnt afford to fix a modified imp engine/box in comparison to a std bike engine/box etc.

thanks
Chris

Post by **onomatopoeia** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:46 am

chris wrote:wow cheers for the information Eric, looks like Ive got my work cut out for me then! Would the full cage need to be a safety devices type all marked up? Or would say a 32mm CDS made cage be sufficient?

Do you think I would stand a chance in Sports Libre? I would stay with the imp engine/box but if anything happened mid season I couldnt afford to fix a modified imp engine/box in comparison to a std bike engine/box etc.

thanks
Chris

Cages don't have to be made by a known manufacturer so can be home made, but they do have to comply with a set of technical specifications (tube diameters, thickness, minimum radius of bends, mounting sizes etc etc etc) laid down in the blue book. This is available for download as a series of PDFs on the MSA website. 32mm is not sufficient, IIRC 45mm or 50mm for the main hoop (depending on tube thickness).

You would not stand a chance in libre. You will be competing against bike engined radicals and the like, and they don't all run standard engines taken straight from the bike either

Post by **StuartC** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:44 pm

Next Sunday 9th October sees the final round of this year's REIS sponsored HSA championship. Both Graham Cashmore and Mark Paterson have done well this year and they are currently tied in 4th place in the overall standings as well as for the class N win. Mark has competed in 10 rounds in his G15 and Graham 9 rounds in his Dav so they will both be dropping scores (9 rounds count); Graham can gain a maximum of 4 points while Mark can gain a maximum of 6. There are lots of permutations and breaking the existing class record will help; this currently stands at 39.67 having been reset last year due to regulation changes. If its wet - who knows? Graham probably has more experience of Curborough than Mark and he will need to use all of this to come out tops on the day. Also competing are Ifan Davies in another Dav and Stuart Cairney in an Imp. Eric Morrey is officiating as secretary of the meeting and is not competing.

Post by **ImpManiac** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:39 pm

I'd love to go see this round. I'll have to see nearer the weekend...

IM

Post by **ibbo** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:59 pm

they must be leaving the handbrake on

i used to hold the record at 37.00 seconds in my old davrian my son has never forgiven me for selling it

Post by **Woodstock** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:51 pm

StuartC wrote: Graham probably has more experience of Curborough than Mark and he will need to use all of this to come out tops on the day.

...No pressure then! My PB is only a 38.58 on 1A tyres. I've got some 1B's now, but the 1040 is out, and I'm running dads ex Stiletto 998 on bike carbs. The head and cam is much more "mild", but you never know, that could be a good thing at Curborough.

Post by **StuartC** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:45 pm

A couple of in-Imp videos from the Curborough event a couple of weeks back. Bounced over the kerbs a bit at the Molehill in the first timed run which was just over half a second slower than in the run-off where I almost fumbled the gear change at the hairpin....

Post by **Lotus-e-Clan** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:37 am

Nice one Stuart.

You're using quite short gears and by the sounds of it (I can't see your rev counter) you didn't rev so high in 2nd so you could get into 3rd gear early for paddock bend.

Molehill negotiation was very sweet with smooth braking and into 2nd gear without upsetting the car (this is something that I can't get right). Hairpin negotiated in 2nd looked OK and you seemed to use a lot of curb on the exit? Then up into 3rd and 4th over the line...what was you terminal speed /revs over the line?

Post by **StuartC** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:30 pm

Thanks
Speed over the finish line is 78mph on the first run which is about 7500 in 4th (according to the spreadsheet I use) with my short gearing. I dont get time to look at the rev counter but the 1st shift light on the dash top is programmed to come on at 8000 with the other 3 following in 400rpm steps. On the 2nd run I was trying to pull it round tighter at the hairpin and I didnt run out so wide on the exit.

Post by **Woodstock** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:32 pm

I need to do my follow up for Impression soon. Can anyone tell me Mark Paterson's (G15) wifes name? I'm afraid I've forgot and I just need it for the group photo of all of us, which she kindly took with my camera.
Cheers
Graham

Post by **StuartC** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:47 pm

I've been racking my brains and then it just came to me - Mrs Paterson

Have you asked Colin?

Post by **StuartC** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:56 pm

I've been racking my brains and then it just came to me - Mrs Paterson

Ok time to eat my words - it turns out that Judith kept her maiden name when she married Mark

Post by **19James** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:49 pm

ibbo wrote:they must be leaving the handbrake on i used to hold the record at 37.00 seconds in my old davrian my son has never forgiven me for selling it

No your right i havent forgiven you

Post by **Woodstock** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:58 pm

Just noticed that for 2015, the "modified specialist" class for Imp powered cars up to 1040cc is still live.
However, although this includes Imps, Clans & Davrians, if I'm not mistaken, this class is not specifically for road legal cars, so if you were looking to dabble into Sprints/Hillclimbs with your road legal Imp, you could be against stripped out racers on slicks.

It's a shame we had to loose the road going class as that seemed to be the happiest times. But overall entries for the 3 separate classes were getting low, so I completely understand and appreciate why it had to be trimmed down to 1.

I'm afraid I'm as guilty as anyone for not competing lately. I'd done it from 96-2012 inclusive, but I must admit I haven't missed it as much as I thought I might have over the last 2 years. After 17 years I think the novelty had started to wear off, and the all travelling was becoming a bit of a bore......and before Ibbo says anything, yes you're right: perhaps it's really because I didn't win much either

The Davrian has now been fitted back with a nice standard gearbox, so I'm looking forward to enjoying it on the road next year.

For those still thinking of starting sprints/hillclimbs, please go for it, it is good fun, and I still enjoy the memories. It would be nice to keep this topic going, weather it is the HSA championship or just sprints/hillclimbs in general.

Happy New Year
Graham

Post by **ibbo** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:55 pm

it wasn't the winning that mattered graham in its heyday when there was lots of us out there in our imps it was the social side I loved going for a beer the night before and all the banter fun times I will never forget

Post by **ImpManiac** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:46 pm

I still want to sprint and hill climb my Imp some day.

Two house moves in the next eight months and the imminent loss of a garage mean it will be a couple of years until I have the car ready. But I am determined to realise my dream.

Of course, the HSA Imp class may have disappeared by then... And petrol may have run out...

IM

Post by **Lars Hagermark** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:42 pm

ImpManiac wrote:... But I am determined to realise my dream.

They say that keeping your hopes and dreams alive is the best way to stay alive.

Happy New Year to you Paul and your loved ones.

Post by **ImpManiac** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:54 pm

Lars Hagermark(DJH705) wrote:
ImpManiac wrote:... But I am determined to realise my dream.
They say that keeping your hopes and dreams alive is the best way to stay alive.
Happy New Year to you Paul and your loved ones.

I certainly agree.

Best wishes from Mrs. IM and me to you and your loved ones, Lars, my friend!

IM