Nods news , Sometimes its the little things .

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james
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Re: Noddys Natterings , BACK FROM THE NATIONAL

Post by james » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:27 pm

Noddy wrote:from the Noddy clan
You have a Clan now? :lol:
Noddy wrote:turned on the wipers and ----------------- NOTHING
Eep, that's nasty - happened to my Dad's MGB on the M25 when 50 miles from home. That was the motor, so no chance to fix it - a long slow drive home down the back lanes was the only answer. And then it started snowing. :? :shock:
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,Singer , some interior shots

Post by bazzateer » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:53 pm

67cali wrote:You missed a bit on the door pocket, it's still bear metal. :lol:
Grizzly? Brown? Black? :wink: :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings ,Singer , some interior shots

Post by kilty » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:10 pm

bazzateer wrote:
67cali wrote:You missed a bit on the door pocket, it's still bear metal. :lol:
Grizzly? Brown? Black? :wink: :lol:
:P Maybe a confusion about the colour, it`s not Polar white. :roll: :oops:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit lower

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:56 pm

Spent the day fitting newness national weekend purchases , The Singer ( now nicnamed Thursdays Child ) has always sat a bit high at the front
Heres how it was
Image


And a few of how it is now , negative camber is 3 degrees ish so will play with this at some point
Image

Image
Last edited by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane on Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit lower

Post by james » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:08 pm

Looks excellent. :D And a bit of negative camber is just what the doctor ordered - ideal for improving fast cornering grip. :twisted:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit lower

Post by Lars Hagermark » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:08 pm

Beautiful!
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit lower

Post by ImpManiac » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:14 pm

The stance of the Singer is now spot on, Noddy! :D :D Fabulous!

It was great to catch up with you and Mrs. Noddy too, my dear friend! :wink: Thank you also for taking the time to look at my alternator for me. I shall fit it now with confidence. :mrgreen:

IM 8)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit negative

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:20 pm

After much looking this morning I recon the negative camber was a bit much so Ive spent a few hours sorting this out . Ive done the mod via Millingtons , these stub axles were already modded but only by 1mm so ive doubled it to 2mm , seems a lot better , also been up my local friendly garage and sorted out the tracking which was toeing out 1 degree and also adjusted the headlights which were now too low , did it all myself and gave them a tenner for the tool use


Heres how it was , ive had to lighten up the piccy as it wasnt very clear ( crap photo skills )
Image


And heres after ive altered it , I dont think its excessive now but would like your opinions
Image


And this is how it sits now , quite chuffed , il move the number plate up at some point though as i recon il rip it off otherwise :lol:
Image
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by kilty » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:47 pm

I might not have noticed if you hadn`t shown us mate! Looking good though, as usual. I`ve got the stubs ready to do mine, it`s a tad more negatory than yours. :P
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by bks974c » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:33 pm

The shape of the wheel arches leads to an optical illusion of the camber being more than it actually is. I drop a plumb line and then measure the distance to the top and bottom of the wheel and then stick it in here to check. I usually aim for 1-2 degrees negative.

http://www.furybusa.org.uk/camber.php

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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:54 pm

bks974c wrote:The shape of the wheel arches leads to an optical illusion of the camber being more than it actually is. I drop a plumb line and then measure the distance to the top and bottom of the wheel and then stick it in here to check. I usually aim for 1-2 degrees negative.

http://www.furybusa.org.uk/camber.php

Scott
Just tried this

Based on a wheel diameter of 365mm edge to edge and a 14mm deviation top to bottom my camber is 2.20 % , I can live with that :)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by classiccapsule » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:48 pm

Well, enthused by the National and deciding to deal with my inclination to be negative head on, I saw Noddy's post and decided I would give it a go. Got to work and soon had the Chamois in bits. Sadly I hadn't got some of the parts I needed, so as my hands were dirty, Sandra said she'd drop into the car parts shop while she was out getting some shopping in. I quickly wrote out a list of what I thought I needed and off she went.

Anyway she came back an hour or so later. I used what she brought me but I think I must have got it wrong. Either the bloke in the car parts shop didn't get what I wanted, my spelling was wrong or Sandra mixed the lists up. It's all back together, but the handlings all over the place and the brakes really smell when they get hot. Here's a photo, any idea what I've done wrong?

Is it purely a parts issue or is it the set up? :? :? :? :oops:





























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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by kilty » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:04 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :P Quality!!
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by Lars Hagermark » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:48 pm

Not very much wrong there.
Camber appears to be within limits.
Perhaps the tyre compound is a little bit too soft though. :lol:
Binning those huge wheel caps will improve brake cooling and make the smell disappear. :wink: :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:49 am

I think you have a parts issue Eddie :lol: :lol: .
Il run through the mod step by step if you wish , perhaps theres a better compound to use :lol:
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by classiccapsule » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:26 pm

Must have been the way I wrote camber :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by ImpManiac » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:18 pm

:lol: :lol: Maybe you 'had the shakes' when you wrote CAMBER and wrote CAMEMBERT, huh? :idea:

:wink:

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Re: Noddys Natterings , A bit Negative

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:33 am

We Went for a blast in the Singer yesterday and ive got to say the handling is superb , very planted , very controllable and the best its ever been.
Ride is a bit harsher probably due to the Van rear shocks ive just fitted as a trial but thats a small price to pay for such wonderful handling.

Well happy :D :D
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:34 pm

Ive changed the filter housing on the Singer this morning
Two reasons for doing this ,
1 , It had a spin on cartridge and ive no filters left in stock for these but do have 20 plus paper old school ones
2, I wanted to see if the spin on filter was causing the excessive 80+ PSI oil pressure on initial fire up .
On removing the housing I found that this valve was no longer in its hole and just rattling about in there :o :shock: , not sure what harm its done to the engine but its been like it a fair while :evil:
It looks like the oil has been bypassing the cooler but ive no idea as ive never come across this before
Il scrap the housing regardless but will remove the oil cooler elbows and relieve valve should anyone need them
Any clues as to what happens if this valve is missing in action :?: :?:
Just hope the oil hasnt been by-passing the filter the whole time , Possible panic on then :lol:

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then !!

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:59 pm

I think that's the "blocked filter bypass valve" which means some of your oil has bypassed the filter blocked or not?

Interested to see what your pressure will be like with a paper canister filter ...maybe back to normal.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then !!

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:06 pm

Lotus-e-Clan wrote:I think that's the "blocked filter bypass valve" which means some of your oil has bypassed the filter blocked or not?

Interested to see what your pressure will be like with a paper canister filter ...maybe back to normal.
It will indeed
Its different being a canister type as theres only one of these valves not two , looking at it it seems impossible for the oil to by-pass the filter on these , valve not there does mean the cooler is by-passed by the looks of it .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then !!

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:18 pm

So it's a "blocked cooler bypass valve" then?

The screw-ons having there own internal blocked filter bypass valve?

I'm slightly confused I must admit. :lol:

But either way, I've been saying for some time that the modern screw-ons have micro pores suitable for thinner modern oils so the thick old school stuff will bypass the blocked filter vavle when cold and thick.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then !!

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:36 pm

Ive had a look at another spin on housing ive got without oil cooler take-offs , theres no valve fitted so my guess is its something to do with the cooler,
I think your right on the spin on filter , i use VR1 oil which is like glue when cold so this might be the high cold pressure cause , il report back on fire up tomorrow when its cold
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then !!

Post by bks974c » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:11 pm

I remember removing the valve when using that housing without an oil cooler, it was essential as without the route through the cooler it would not have flowed round the engine. So iirc all that has happened the oil would have bypassed the oil cooler but been through the filter - no harm done. :D

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then !!

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:29 pm

bks974c wrote:I remember removing the valve when using that housing without an oil cooler, it was essential as without the route through the cooler it would not have flowed round the engine. So iirc all that has happened the oil would have bypassed the oil cooler but been through the filter - no harm done. :D

Scott
Thats my thoughts on it , nice to have an expert confirm. :D
Ive been for a blast and the oil pressure has indeed altered , When hot its down from 55psi to 50psi at anything over 3000rpm and 53psi at 6000rpm , on tickover its down from 30psi to 25 psi , so it looks as if the spin on filter does restrict flow or do something due to the finer micro pores .

So , has the modern spin on filter have smaller micro pores to ones in 1974 / 5 / 6 :?:
Are modern ones no longer suitable for 20/50 oil . ?
It would good to somehow compare the filter material used in both .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then !!

Post by benwick3 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:43 pm

No need to scrap the housing. Just refit the valve and re-stake around it. However, if you are determined to scrap just send it and the valve to me.

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good then !!

Post by cov_climax » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:03 pm

or tap a thread for a tapered pipe bung, no need for a cooler by-pass really.

i got rid of my spin of housing after erratic oil pressure, even with an adjustable relief valve it was often over 100psi cold and 80psi hot, i tried all sorts, because it would hold say 60psi up to 3500rpm then above that it would just climb off the gauge, almost as if the relief valve couldn't spill enough oil i tried changing the the plunger to a ball bearing, opening out the holes in the relief body, machining a groove around the outside to allow the rear hole to to flow more oil, i even made special shim washers to index it on the threads to align the relief holes with the hole in the housing.

in the end gave up and swapped to paper element type and virtually all the above were cured..... might just be co-incidental though. oh and the pressure was measured at the middle mains bung
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:54 am

Fired up the Singer this morning , stone cold oil pressure only went to 60 psi and not above even when i pulled away.
It would seem modern spin on filters are unsuitable for 20/50 oil and can cause excessive oil pressure on start up . :)
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:37 pm

See. .. I got that bit right then! :lol:

So I wonder if all spin-ons are the same? The last spin-on I used with the Imp Sport engine was the larger Volvo item and that gave high cold pressure (80+).

The Lotus 912 engine oil spec is 20/50 and uses a spin-on. This then also explains why some owners are reporting off the scale cold oil pressures (7+ bar). My cold pressures are normal using a Lotus original filter so maybe other owners who have high oil pressure are using non-Lotus modern equivalents?

Maybe need a new thread for folk to report their cold pressures and type of filters used?
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:02 pm

Lotus-e-Clan wrote:See. .. I got that bit right then! :lol:
Goes without saying really
Lotus-e-Clan wrote:So I wonder if all spin-ons are the same?
Perhaps the canisters have remained the same but the internal filters have changed with the times , the majority of cars run thin oil these days so for a filter manufacturer to produce different micro bore stuff for different cars would be an issue , they probably have a " one shoe fits all " filter and run with that.
Ive no idea mind just guessing .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:09 pm

Noddy wrote: Perhaps the canisters have remained the same but the internal filters have changed with the times , the majority of cars run thin oil these days so for a filter manufacturer to produce different micro bore stuff for different cars would be an issue , they probably have a " one shoe fits all " filter and run with that.
Ive no idea mind just guessing .
You're probably right. I guess when I buy my next Lotus "original" filter I'll get off scale cold oil pressure like other 912 owners (unless it's NOS).
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:16 pm

NOS are all we have for the non spin on filters so theres been no issues thus far .
I believe Bob has been looking into getting these re-made , this micro bore issue needs to be sorted before hand if so or we will all end up with off the scale cold oil pressure .
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by moose » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:41 pm

i can supply the correct spin on filters, there are many types that fit the thread and seal dia but you need the filters that fit the engines of the day that ran the 20/50 oil. race/rally spec and road available, for you Dave road filter, get in touch if you want to try a back to back comparison will supply one for free if you report back, if you do not want the trouble and fiddle of swappping back then back again etc no problem. i will not be supplying to anybody else on mass as it is too much hassle for the gain and i will probably have all my research and investment poached by someone else who will under cut me and make me look bad (happened with parts 3 times now so no more, but if anyone is stuck and needs help on a club member to club member level i will of course help out (basically what i am saying is i will not sell for profit).
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:50 pm

Well someone needs to supply the right filter type Mike so you should benefit from the situation. If other traders haven't cottoned-on then 'tis up to them to catch-up. 8)

At face value, high initial cold oil pressure would seem harmless BUT NOT SO if the fine micro pores are causing the blocked filter bypass valve to open. This would mean the initial cold oil circulation to the bearings is unfiltered and overtime increased wear is inevitable!
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by moose » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:57 pm

only benefit i want is no cost or hassle to me and the satisfaction of helping a fellow club memember after looking hard at supplying quality parts and work, i am taking a different track away from imps
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by bks974c » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:04 pm

moose wrote:i can supply the correct spin on filters, there are many types that fit the thread and seal dia but you need the filters that fit the engines of the day that ran the 20/50 oil. race/rally spec and road available, for you Dave road filter, get in touch if you want to try a back to back comparison will supply one for free if you report back, if you do not want the trouble and fiddle of swappping back then back again etc no problem. i will not be supplying to anybody else on mass as it is too much hassle for the gain and i will probably have all my research and investment poached by someone else who will under cut me and make me look bad (happened with parts 3 times now so no more, but if anyone is stuck and needs help on a club member to club member level i will of course help out (basically what i am saying is i will not sell for profit).
Hi Mike

I'm happy to take you up on the offer (happy to pay for the filter) and give you the back to back comparison. I'm running the Volvo filter (Wix WL7214) on the rally car at the moment and have high cold oil pressure and you know I'm not going to undermine you. Would also change the oil pressure gauge as its a bit sticky so give more accurate feedback.

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by moose » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:19 pm

e-mail me Scott to sort out the details i am working till wednesday then off to germany then back to work so could be 2 weeks before i can sort anything out.
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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by bks974c » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:12 pm

Hi Mike

Will do - there no hurry from my point of view as new filter just been put on and have Durham Dales on the 2nd and Speedfair at Knockhill on the 8/9th Sept,
David out on either ?

Be better to change it after that when I have more time to record the results.

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by 617sqn » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:23 am

I've converted a spin-on oil filter housing for a mate recently, which didn't have the elbow tappings opened out. I blocked the original port with a 16 mm grub screw, loctited into the pre-tapped port drilling. I'm trying to work out what would happen if the filter was blocked :? Would the spin-on be subjected to however much pressure the pump could generate and possibly fail, or is the original bleed valve not a part of this process and is only there to assure there will be a flow of oil if the cooler got blocked ?

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Re: Noddys Natterings , Well thats not so good , RESULT

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:14 am

I'm confused about this too.

The screw-ons must have a internal relief valve if screw-on blocks are designed without one. If not, then that is a worry. The way I see it is, normally, there is a system pressure drop due to the presence of the filter (pressure reading beyond the filter) and if the filter is bypassed (blocked or too restrictive to thick oil) the systemic pressure goes high until the oil thins sufficiently to pass through the filter pores.
74 Clan Crusader 1040 Red 190 bhp/ton
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