Datsun engined Imp. What was that?!!....

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:21 am

Ray Payne told me when I asked about them, no no you dont want to go down that route on an IMP. :? So he didnt think they were a good idea, maybe he tried them out? The standard fitment is fine for standardish suspension anyway, its only when you got to extreme driveshaft angles it becomes a problem, and they werent designed for that much anyway.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by 617sqn » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:16 am

The engineering is great. They look great, but why bother.... I'd rather keep my eye on donut condition and have to replace them occasionally than spend £315 or so on an item that may wreck my tyranny, or require the removal of same in order to fit a centre sprung clutch (at further additional cost) and may have noise implications. I really cannot see the point unless one is building from scratch a vehicle that will have extremes of suspension travel. The air suspension lads will be the main purchasers, I would imagine. And good luck to them, because their modifications are magnificent.

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:33 am

Yeah I figure that is where the market is.. Folk who run such low cars that they need the extra driveshaft angle. Or those running huge power but then I figure the gearbox wouldn't last anyway? How much power can an imp box take if driven sensibly - not clutch dumped etc?
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by johnh875 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:04 am

I couldn't put a figure on the limit, but there definitely is one. Russ Day used to run a 10A powered Imp (may have been 12A?) in autocross years ago, and had problems stopping the gearbox cases splitting via the main shafts being pushed apart, I don't think he was able to effectively reinforce them despite trying, either.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:00 am

A 12a is roughly about 110lbft torque at 4000 so not an absurdly huge amount. However isn't autocross quite harsh on drivelines?
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:22 am

If you get sudden wheel spin at high revs then it suddenly bites the shock load might break a gearbox?, you could get lots of that off road on uneven ground?
In fact the standard gearbox is quite amazing considering it was designed to cope with the original mark1 Imps 37 bhp, same goes for the doughnuts, folk put many times the power through them expecting them to be ok still at 100 bhp.
In fact with an early mark1 liquorice driveshafts might have been all that was needed :lol:
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:11 pm

Yeah the mk1 shafts that were on this car when the previous owner was running a supercharger on the Datsun had a distinctly twisted look :D
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by johnh875 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:52 pm

yoeddynz wrote:A 12a is roughly about 110lbft torque at 4000 so not an absurdly huge amount. However isn't autocross quite harsh on drivelines?
There would be a lot of first and second gear work, some stopping and starting but given the gearbox issues and rotoflexes I doubt he would be deliberately harsh on it, but I never saw the car run.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:45 am

I'd love to know how he joined the Rotary to the Imp box. The Mazdas have quite large diameter flywheels. Do you know if the car still exists?

I've owned heaps of Rotaries over the last 17 years and I still really like them, however they are quite chunky in weight.. a bit too much for the rear of an Imp. But certainly it seems that's not put folk off as there have been quite a few Rotor imps created over the years eh.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:57 am

May have used a VW or a Hewland box?
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by colimp66 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:35 am

The Nun wrote:May have used a VW or a Hewland box?
Just like this one with a rotary and VW transporter transaxle.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22088

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:47 pm

Ahhhh yes - the car that Niall built. I knew him from a really fun UK based Rotary forum I belonged to, sadly like many good forums that one is now dead :-(

He had the build up on there. Great wee car. THIRSTY!!! :D

There are adaptor plates available out of the States to bolt Mazda Rotaries onto VW boxes. A very popular swap in the states.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by johnh875 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:26 am

Not sure, maybe he adapted the Imp flywheel to the Mazda or made a custom one, presumably with an adapter plate for the bellhousing. Frank Schoenberger in Qld had the car from what I can remember.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:42 am

I'll ask frank.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:17 am

Franks was a Subaru engined version I believe?
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by johnh875 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:54 pm

Frank had lots of Imps! Including some rare ones, eg one of the half-dozen Commer vans brought out by Rootes Australia, one of the Farmimp ute conversions from NZ, and I think a Chamois (not many in Australia).
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:05 pm

There's a chamois being offered for sale right now in OZ on a FB group. Its a project. Asking $14k aud !!!! :shock:
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by johnh875 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:09 am

It's times like these I probably should be on FB, but there you go!

I haven't heard of too many Imp sales in Australia and don't follow them religiously, but I can only hope (?!?) $14k is a reasonable price. Somehow I'm not so sure.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:16 am

I think its a bit excessive, claiming its because there is only 4 of them in OZ. but hey- someone may well buy it and that can only be good for all other Imp owners because it bumps the value up?

Certainly its worked that way for old Mazda Rotaries in NZ and Oz. The prices folk are paying now days, for what really are still just pretty bland cars, is crazy!!! I sold my Rx3 coupe for far too little. If only we could see into the future... everyone in the UK would have kept their old 2 door escorts ! :D
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by 617sqn » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:32 am

People have been asking stupid prices for Minis over here for years. No accounting for taste. :lol:

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 am

I was watching a program last night about car auctions where a 65 Cooper S which was so rotten it had to be sat on a wooden pallet otherwise it would have broken in two, sold for 18 grand, with 8 folk bidding for it, when the chap who bought it was asked of it was worth what he had paid for it, he said well it was only 1000 above what someone else wanted to pay for it, the guy seemed to think if it was restored to as new condition it would be worth a value approaching the 60 grand mark, just wait until the IMP Sports are in that area, another 2 years or so 8)
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by johnh875 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:41 pm

I'm not sure how you could claim there were only 4 in the country, back in the day several Rootes dealers would import cars outside what Rootes Australia sold and I have heard about a few Chamois, not to mention what has been brought in more recently - one of our club members brought a Californian with him when he came back from the UK.

A Cooper S was auctioned here for about AUD$90k a couple of years ago - well over its estimate.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:08 am

That is a heck of a lot of money for what really is just a mini with go faster stripes (showing my full blown knowledge of Minis right there....)

What irks me is that these cars, which were designed to be taken by the scruff of their neck and trashed with joyous abandon on fun twisty roads, have now reached a value whereby the owners only see them as an asset and horde them away never to see the road again except for an occasional careful trip to a classic car show.

Yawn!!!
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:16 am

Down to rarity isnt it? If all those ever made were still around they would be worth about 200 quid each?
Then as most were modified those still in standard form are worth more, modifying your car devalues it and the further you go with it the less desirable it becomes to those wanting the one you could buy new in the showroom when they were in their youth.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by johnh875 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:15 am

I don't know what inspired such a high price in that particular case, but I do remember going with a friend to look at Cooper S's about 20 years ago and he had about a dozen different things to look for to determine if the car had been re-shelled or not, and whether different components were original Cooper S bits or not. I think he was looking at $15k or so back then. Different people want different things from cars, there will be some owners who still race theirs.

Being all restored and shiny is certainly a factor - not wanting to get that first stone chip I suppose, or for some not wanting to spend a day cleaning the car after every drive.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by The Nun » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:29 am

You can go overboard, I had a friend who restored his TR6 and then whenever he wanted to use it his wife had to follow in the Land Rover with trailer and cover in case he should get caught in the rain so he could put on so it didnt get dirty? Upon returning home he then spent the next 3 nights under the car cleaning it off.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by 617sqn » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:41 am

Yeah. I've come across people like that. Good on them if that's how they want to be, but to me a car SO clean underneath that you feel compelled to set up a mirror to prove it is a tad OTT . Cars were built for a specific purpose : getting people and things from A to B in a safe efficient way. To eat your dinner, you serve it up on a plate :lol:

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by bazzateer » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:52 am

617sqn wrote:Imps were built for a specific purpose : getting people and things from A to B in a fast and fun way.

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by 617sqn » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:15 am

Haha, thanks Baz. :D That's what I meant. Don't get me wrong, I like Stan tidy. But he's used, so pristine will never happen !

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by bazzateer » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:03 pm

Likewise!
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:38 pm

Both mine are used a lot , Singers tidy but hardly perfect , Vuskys an unpolished scanky workhorse - just the way i love it :D
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:52 pm

617sqn wrote: To eat your dinner, you serve it up on a plate :lol:

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What is a plate? We just use our hands down this way. Meat off bbq, onto bun/bread, into mouth.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:59 pm

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane wrote:Both mine are used a lot , Singers tidy but hardly perfect , Vuskys an unpolished scanky workhorse - just the way i love it :D
My Imp has been named leaky because one output seal still insists on weeping and a little bit goes a long way once it spins off the doughnut! Plus, as I was warned, Imps do like to suck dust back into the engine bay! So I'm not even going to stress about the cleanliness. This car is to be trashed. It owes me very little money- just a lot of time but we do this hobby for fun so time is not an actual cost then eh :-)

bl***y leaky seal though. Luckily its the really easy to get to N/S one. I need to suss whether its sneaking past the seal, which I have just checked and tightened last week, or getting past the o ring that seals the bearing adjuster to the carrier.

I have sealed up the join between the mk3 press fit spline/spider just in case. I have also looked for cracks in the housing and its fine. Its definitely that seal area...

I think..
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by Peter Hurst » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:28 am

yoeddynz wrote:
Dave ' Linwood ' Lane wrote:Both mine are used a lot , Singers tidy but hardly perfect , Vuskys an unpolished scanky workhorse - just the way i love it :D
My Imp has been named leaky because one output seal still insists on weeping and a little bit goes a long way once it spins off the doughnut! Plus, as I was warned, Imps do like to suck dust back into the engine bay! So I'm not even going to stress about the cleanliness. This car is to be trashed. It owes me very little money- just a lot of time but we do this hobby for fun so time is not an actual cost then eh :-)

bl***y leaky seal though. Luckily its the really easy to get to N/S one. I need to suss whether its sneaking past the seal, which I have just checked and tightened last week, or getting past the o ring that seals the bearing adjuster to the carrier.

I have sealed up the join between the mk3 press fit spline/spider just in case. I have also looked for cracks in the housing and its fine. Its definitely that seal area...

I think..
A transaxle output shaft seal leaking, in my experience, results in the oil running down the casing and dripping off the bottom of the box with the doughnut staying dry.
You say you have sealed the spider to the spline but again in my experience that's where the transmission oil comes from if it dipping off the doughnut
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:24 pm

I'll certainly check that again but i had cleaned the spider end thoroughly with brake cleaner and a tooth brush, let it dry in the sun. There is a slight cavity where the end of the axle doesn't quite sit flush with the outside face of the spider and this I filled with automotive silicone then let set. Is be surprised if its leaked past the splines now.

I think it might well be dripping just onto the spinning spider bolt nuts and getting flicked out from them.

My plan is to clean up the mess, take the car for a good trash and get the oil hot.
Once home put the car on the hoist and drain enough fluid so I can remove the shaft with out it coming out there. I've become adept at this now and it's certainly very easy with a hoist.
Clean and dry around the seal area, put shaft back in, remount axle etc, refill box with still hot oil.

Lower car back end onto steel bench to take weight so shafts sit a they do when it's on the ground.

Make a cup of tea (very important this bit) and watch for leak. I want to see where exactly its coming from.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by Peter Hurst » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:00 am

yoeddynz wrote:I'll certainly check that again but i had cleaned the spider end thoroughly with brake cleaner and a tooth brush, let it dry in the sun. There is a slight cavity where the end of the axle doesn't quite sit flush with the outside face of the spider and this I filled with automotive silicone then let set. Is be surprised if its leaked past the splines now.

I think it might well be dripping just onto the spinning spider bolt nuts and getting flicked out from them.

My plan is to clean up the mess, take the car for a good trash and get the oil hot.
Once home put the car on the hoist and drain enough fluid so I can remove the shaft with out it coming out there. I've become adept at this now and it's certainly very easy with a hoist.
Clean and dry around the seal area, put shaft back in, remount axle etc, refill box with still hot oil.

Lower car back end onto steel bench to take weight so shafts sit a they do when it's on the ground.

Make a cup of tea (very important this bit) and watch for leak. I want to see where exactly its coming from.
If you jack car up just on the one side don't even have to drain the oil!
When I had similar issue after changing seal and still leaking took shaft out and with just a light tap came apart
I used another shaft I had but you could just replace O ring
IMG_0596small (2017_01_22 12_54_02 UTC).jpg
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:42 am

Wow. :( . So the pressed together ones can come apart?! I this common?
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by 617sqn » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:44 am

Early type, I believe. Later ones were welded together ?

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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by yoeddynz » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:44 pm

Mine are the very late mk3 type. Certainly no welding obvious but what I thought was a very tight machine press fit.
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Re: Datsun engined Imp. First roadtrip...

Post by 617sqn » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:46 pm

Hmm. Interesting....

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