EHK 744G - 1969 Super

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Pog
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EHK 744G - 1969 Super

Post by Pog » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:38 pm

Hi everyone,

This post has been 3 years in the making and I couldn't be more excited - this shall be my very own build thread!

A bit of background - I was never really into cars as a kid, until I started to learn the joys of driving at 17 and it was then I knew that someday I would want a car project of my own. Not being one to follow the usual trend, the usual Beetles and M***s didn't really excite me. And then 1 day I was scrolling through one of the car pages I followed online and saw a rather peculiar boxy little thing and the simple act of not knowing what it was caught my eye. I started to do some research - rear engined, rear wheel drive, all independent suspension... what an interesting car! I knew that this would be the project for me. I joined the club and started to look for a suitable car for sale. Life got in the way, I met a girl, moved into a little flat with no garage and so the project never went any further.

But I did keep searching. And one day I found on the good ol' 'Bay' a listing for an Imp engine which was too good miss, a grand total of £9 and it was mine! Still in a little flat, I didn't exactly have anywhere to store it and so it's been with a good friend of mine in his shed for2 whole years! The girl is now my wife and we have recently moved into a beautiful house, with an all important garage! Which finally brings me to now, the engine is with me at last and the project can begin! So here we go:

ImageEngine finally home by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

There wasn't any description on the listing and so I have very little knowledge of the engine or its condition. It's seized and as far as I can see, it's an L4:

ImageLate model 171 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

Without any prior mechanical knowledge or experience, I just want to start small rather than dive right into an entire shell restoration - so I'll just start with the rebuilding of this and see how I get on. I have a trusty Haynes manual, but no doubt I shall be asking for advice from you lovely people.

Thank you for your time if you've come this far! I am very excited to see how this project unfurls.

Pog
Last edited by Pog on Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:20 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:54 pm

Welcome along - engines not an L4 though -7010171 is a standard MK2 head - L4s have the numbers 71981533 on them.
For your information just in case your interested.
AM stands for Aeroplane and Marine - this was the company that cast the heads . Rootes were unwilling or more likely unable to cast the heads at Linwood to the required quality . Cylinder heads were all high pressure casings - block - transaxle castings were all low pressure castings and done at Linwood itself .
Im guessing but the 4 after AM could be die number 4 ,
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Bobbycham » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:57 pm

My suggestion would be to buy an engine stand , bolted to it the engine can be completely stripped and refurbished and rebuilt,
Engine stand can also be adapted for use as turning frame for Imp shell (2 engine stands needed)
You have to start somewhere , now you have that important part , garage.
Good luck with project, look forward to hearing of your progress ,
We are here to help.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by pubcrawler » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:30 am

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane wrote:For your information just in case your interested. AM stands for Aeroplane and Marine - this was the company that cast the heads
Thanks Dave, have been wondering for some time what it stood for :D
A friend has a Dolomite Sprint with the same casting letters on his engine :o
Someone said they thought it was a Midlands firm :wink:
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:18 am

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane wrote:Welcome along - engines not an L4 though -7010171 is a standard MK2 head - L4s have the numbers 71981533 on them.
See, I should have known that, must have got too excited and mixed up my numbers. Ah well.

I know the mk2 heads can go to sport valve sizes, but can you modify the head for the oil drain, double valve springs and sport cam? I'd like to end up with a sport spec like engine. Or is it easier just to find a new head?

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by John Simister » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:04 am

Isn't AM Aeroplane and Motor?

Pog, good luck with the project, and with finding a car to go with your engine. A good Imp is great fun to drive, so keep that in the back of your mind if you ever get discouraged and things don't go quite as they should.

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:06 pm

John Simister wrote:Isn't AM Aeroplane and Motor?

John
could be - my info was from a mag but it could well be wrong :oops:
EDIT - You are correct - its aeroplane and motor
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Grahame59 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:45 pm

I was just about to post to say that AM stood for Aeroplane and Motor but I see John beat me to it — how do I know it stands for Aeroplane and Motor? Because John told me so in 1981! :lol:

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by The Nun » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:59 pm

Not AM for After Mini :o then? seeing as they beat them to it. :lol:

An IMPs a good choice for a starter car, you have to learn quickly, they keep you on your toes as theres always something needing to be done, you will never get to be a thumb twiddler with one thats a fact, or er Hum! rich either.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by kilty » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:08 pm

You're all wrong. The AM heads were all built before the teabags ran out. There were none cast in the afternoons. The PM moulds were scrapped.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:51 pm

Spent my first 15 mins on the engine!

I thought I could start by removing the broken spark plugs, but my sockets didn't go big enough and the adjustable spanner I have didn't go wide enough either! I get the feeling this is going to happen quite a lot as I start out and realize I don't have the right tools - ah well, we crack on and make do.

So I moved onto something I could do with what I have - the cam cover is off and I managed to remove the timing sprocket as instructed by my manual. It says next to remove the dowel, but that wouldn't budge one bit!

It was at this point my wife came into the garage to say the pasta bake I'd put on was starting to catch, so that concluded my first attempt at tinkering haha.

ImageIMG_0373 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by kilty » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:24 pm

You don't have to remove the dowel.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:17 pm

Well I followed Kilty's advice and left the dowel where it is, removed the cam carrier without snapping the camshaft, so that's good.

Question: all these 11mm nuts and spacers - they can all be used wherever can't they? They don't need to go back on the bolt they came from?

I then attempted to undo the cylinder head bolts, yet another thing that wouldn't budge! So I've sprayed some WD40 in the hope that will help loosen them by the time I go back to it. Any tips otherwise?

Sorry these aren't massive updates, but I'm just doing little bits as and when I can. Baby steps and all that!

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Bobbycham » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:55 pm

They won't be 11mm nuts they'll be 7\16" , All nuts & bolts are imperial (inches) as far as l know.
And if they're the nuts from cam carrier , yes they are interchangeable.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:10 pm

Well guys, sustained my first injury!

These head bolts are properly tight. After the last failed attempt, I doused them in WD40, which seemed to do the trick as the first 3 bolts did start to unscrew, but the 4th just wouldn't move. I put my absolute back into it and the socket slipped off the bolt and one of the studs grazed all the way up my wrist. Ouch.

Also, worryingly, one of the bolts as it started to loosen went *ping* and is now completely loose i.e. it just moves freely up and down the hole now. Is that bad? Something I did wrong?

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by John Simister » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:27 am

I'm sorry to have to tell you that you have almost certainly broken the bolt. Nothing you have done wrong. It was weakened by corrosion and the threaded part is still corroded into the block. It might be possible to extract it when the cylinder head is off. It will involve careful drilling and an extractor tool such as an 'Easy Out', but soak it well in penetrating fluid first. Plus Gas is much more effective than WD40. I read somewhere that a mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid is even better, but I haven't tried it.

And buy yourself a proper non-metric socket set! A 3/8in square drive one is generally more useful for an Imp engine than a 1/2in drive one.

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by ImpManiac » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:09 pm

Welcome, Pog! :D

Another tip for you. Rather than use lots and lots of force and risk slipping off the piece on which you are working, use leverage instead. :idea: In this case, a longer wrench might have helped. If you do not (yet) have a longer wrench, use a piece of tube over the handle of your existing tool. :idea:

Sorry you've already discovered sheared bolts and studs. These are all too common on old motors. They are just a fact of life. :roll: Any decent machining shop should have any remains of sheared bolts or studs out in short order, though. Shouldn't be too costly.

Enjoy your project! :)

IM 8)
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:14 pm

Exciting update guys!

Well firstly, picked up a great deal on a proper 90pc socket set with non metric sizes, so that's a great addition for me.

ImpManiac, you're my hero! I had one of those screw together handles from a decking stain brush which worked perfectly for extending the handle. Not gonna lie, they were still mighty stubborn, but it certainly worked!

First to come off were the spark plugs, one completely crumbled on me they were so corroded :o

ImageIMG_0415 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

Next, I worked my way around the cylinder head bolts. 3 days of spraying with penetrating fluid and with added leverage they were a bit more cooperative. Sadly 3 more went *ping*, so that's a shame. I won't attempt getting them out, I'll let a machine shop do that, don't want to risk damaging the block. Which brings me to this, I found some more stamps on the side of the block:

ImageIMG_0416 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

B1 is the Talbot 928 block isn't it?

Anyhoo, eventually, I got the head off! So so chuffed, felt like a real step in the right direction. Looks a bit sorry inside though:

ImageIMG_0419 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

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Last edited by Pog on Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by The Nun » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:52 pm

B1 is the piston grade/fitting tolerance so they knew which ones to put in on the production line, nothing to do with saying it's. B1 930 engine,
Some are stamped up A, B, A1 etc
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by 617sqn » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:51 pm

But nice that all four cylinders are/were the same standard. I've occasionally had better luck with trying to tighten stubborn bolts before attempting to undo them. And PlusGas is definitely better than wd40. Anyway, enjoy :D

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:11 pm

Ah that's what they mean, thanks guys! Fount of knowledge you lot :)

Now. The sump is off :
ImageIMG_0424 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

But the timing chain cover will not budge. I can't find any bolts that are still holding it together, have I missed something?
ImageIMG_0423 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

I don't know how much force I should be using, if any at all? The cylinder head came right off once the bolts were undone, would have thought this would be the same?

Pog
Last edited by Pog on Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Bobbycham » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:19 pm

Educated guess but oil pump would need to come out as it's still engaged into crank.
Sealing gasket could be holding on for dear life?
Not been into the engine side of restoration yet ,so just a wild stab in the dark (you know the feeling Pog?) :lol:
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by cov_climax » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:11 pm

Gasket and O-rings will be holding it, give it a tap with a lump of wood on the engine mount lug, always works got me. Oil pump doesn't need to come off, but its easier now rather than chasing the timing cover around the bench later.

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by ImpManiac » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:59 am

Good work, Pog. :) You will need a decent machine shop to remove those seized fasteners - bolts, studs and what have you.

Are you going to clean up all the bits yourself or will you have it done professionally? Just curious. :wink:

IM 8)
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:21 pm

Thanks IM. Chesman Engineering is less than an hour away from me, I think it'd be in pretty safe hands with them :D

I plan to have the parts vapour blasted, want a real nice finish to them.

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:21 am

Hey guys,

Well it's taken a good couple weeks of soaking, wiggling, more soaking, but the last piston is free and the strip down is complete!

ImageLast piston out! by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

Well, 99% complete. What on earth is this bit and how does it come off? I'm scared of rounding the nut.

ImageIMG_0549 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

Condition is to be expected - will be taking the block to Chesman for the work.

ImageIMG_0550 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

ImageIMG_0552 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

I was hoping that they could supply the suitable parts along with the work, but they tell me they don't. So my question is how do I know which oversize pistons etc to order before I know how much machine work it's going to take to make as new? Or am I getting ahead of myself?

I'm wanting to blueprint the engine, so would like to have the machine work measured around the parts. Was thinking +030" overbore, would that be enough?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated :)

Pog
Last edited by Pog on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by The Nun » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:31 am

Well ideally if you want it spot on to maximum design tolerances and blueprinted, you probably need to start with all new parts or those that are currently still at the bottom of their tolerance range, the engine ought to go to one of the top IMP engine builders, someone who knows their stuff so its built up correctly and its going to be reliable, wont be cheap mind you, but then neither is an engine thats unreliable and keeps packing up, you pays your money and makes your choice, hopefully the right one.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Bobbycham » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:39 pm

Pog , its the oil warning light switch, you'll probably find something similar looking which is the water temp sender, it's on the cylinder head , they just unscrew for removal, make sure you are using correct size spanner
(only too easy to round off the corners using spanners that are nearly right) not the end of the world if it does break as you've got broken head studs to remove , very much the same way of getting remaining threaded sections out for both items .
There are a series of holes drilled through crankcase to move oil around to where it's needed ,on a rebuild these would ideally be cleaned thoroughly before assembly

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by tiker » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:50 pm

The machine shop will measure the bores they will know what size pistons you need,its surprising how much of a difference .001" makes and they will hone to size once they have measured the new pistons if you want to blueprint the engine you will need all the crank shells measured in position before you have the crank ground . It takes a lot of time to blueprint an engine correctly
There may be people that say they have a blueprinted engine but I doubt that. must fully understand how hard it is to do, are really cost basically you're engine has no tolerance in the machining everything has to be the same 1 dimension out and its scrap you make that bit again are you use selective assembly ,but who has access to a endless supply of shims ,bearings thrust washer's, cranks,conrods, ect it would be very hard to do it today poss on works cars years ago ?
Last edited by tiker on Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:39 pm

Been a while since my last post, things have been up the air these past few months as I've recently started a new job. Quite the change in career path as I went from technology to the motor industry! Really delighted that I've managed to join a training program with Lexus! It has meant a drop in salary until the training is complete (12 months), so very little spare cash to put into this project, hence the lack of progress...

But a bit of elbow grease is free! So I decided it would be good to clean the block as best I could, just to have something to do. Came out pretty good, much better than it was by any rate!

ImageIMG_1170 by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

Once funds allow for the machine work and new parts to happen, then I plan to have the block vapour blasted to really make the aluminium shine like new again!

Any comments welcome :)

Pog
Last edited by Pog on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by ImpManiac » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:28 pm

Well done on the new position with Lexus! :D The salary drop should be well worth it in the long run.

As you say, despite a lack of funds to progress with expensive jobs, like buying parts and machining engines, there are things you can do right now. Stripping components down, cleaning them and storing them, not forgetting to label as much as possible :idea: , will save you time and energy later on. You could even start to work on the rusty bits. How is the bodyshell? Suspension? Items like brake backplates, gear selector assembly, etc.?

You have chosen wisely by choosing an Imp. :wink: They are so much fun to drive! Even a standard Imp, with it's 40-odd horsepower, is an absolute joy to drive. I think a large part of this is the sheer contrast with more modern machinery, which is heavy, bloated and anaesthetised through electronic meddling. (Mind you, I do love my 2003 Vectra! :mrgreen: )

What's next? :?:

IM 8)
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EHK744G - 1969 Super - first venture into car restoration!

Post by Pog » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:21 pm

Well guys, I've been looking forward to making this post for 4 years... I finally have an Imp in the garage! I still can't quite believe it, and now I'm totally overwhelmed and have absolutely no idea what I'm doing... But I just can't wait to get stuck in.

The car was partially stripped by the previous owner, a wonderful 88yr old chap, who did much of the bodywork including new wheel arches, sills, parts of the floor as well as boxing the front suspension H brackets - so he clearly knew his way around an Imp shell. It needs tidying but all in all it seems to be a good, straight car to start with.

Setting off from Tilbury to its new home in Northampton:
Imageimage by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

Most important though is everything is accounted for and complete in boxes, so I'll just need to figure out where it all goes!

In its new home:
Imageimage by Godfrey Hatton, on Flickr

No doubt I'll be calling upon all your knowledge and expertise, so please just bear with me! I'll be sure to keep the updates coming when I can.

Pog
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by oli » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:20 pm

I have a spare set of servicable +20 pistons available if you are interested. I also have several built up short engines (oversized - +20, +30, and +40) available.
Get in touch if you need any more info.

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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by Pog » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:16 am

Thanks Oli, included in the sale of the car however was no less than 4 engines in various states of finish! So I definitely have a choice of blocks! Kind of you to suggest though.

Forum question.. how do I change the header of this thread so that becomes the new title? I thought I did it by changing the subject on the last post but it hasn't.
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Re: My first ever car project - and I've chosen an Imp!

Post by 617sqn » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:18 am

Just press "edit" on your first post and re-title it Pog.

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paulchin
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Re: EHK 744G - 1969 Super - first venture into car restorati

Post by paulchin » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:56 am

Nice one - presumably that's the one that was advertised in the November club mag (Impromptu)?

If so, looks like you got a bargain! Do keep us posted on how it goes.
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Bobbycham
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Re: EHK 744G - 1969 Super - first venture into car restorati

Post by Bobbycham » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:37 pm

Good to see you back on here with positive results as far as getting car , don't be surprised if repairs turn out to be,
"get you bye bodges ", HOPE NOT, for your sake ,but it's so often the case that you're putting right other peoples so called repairs.
Any of the blokes on here that have restored cars will tell you the same.

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Re: EHK 744G - 1969 Super - first venture into car restorati

Post by Pog » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:01 pm

paulchin wrote:Nice one - presumably that's the one that was advertised in the November club mag (Impromptu)?

If so, looks like you got a bargain! Do keep us posted on how it goes.
The very one! Indeed, it was just the right car at the right price at the right time with the right people. The old couple were just so nice, they couldn't believe a 27yr old was so keen and they just wanted to see it go to a good home. I promised them a ride when it's finished, so I'd best pull my finger out!
Bobbycham wrote:Good to see you back on here with positive results as far as getting car , don't be surprised if repairs turn out to be, "get you bye bodges ", HOPE NOT, for your sake ,but it's so often the case that you're putting right other peoples so called repairs. Any of the blokes on here that have restored cars will tell you the same.

Bob Imp005
Oh I don't doubt! I've certainly read enough restoration threads to see what shocks can arise, which is why my plans for the car is to have it chemically stripped to avoid any hidden nasties. I want to do it right first time.

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Re: EHK 744G - 1969 Super - first venture into car restorati

Post by The Nun » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:47 pm

Make sure all trace of any stripping chemicals are got rid of though as remnants can stay in the seams and continue eating it away.
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Re: EHK 744G - 1969 Super - first venture into car restorati

Post by bazzateer » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:01 am

The garage looks a bit dark. Looks like you may have power. I'd recommend painting the walls an ceiling with a few coats of white emulsion and fitting a couple of cheap flourescent lights before you start on the car. It'll make a huge difference.
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