VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:57 pm

No problem, I think the point you were referring to was at the hairpin where it tightens on the exit, there were multiple lines including the ones where I changed down to first and gave it a bootful to counteract the understeer with some oversteer.

Quickest probably just to brake more and drive through the corner at a reduced speed :shock:

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:34 pm

Got a tour on Sunday with Caledonian Classic and Historic Motorsport Club, 140 miles through the Scottish Borders and wanted to sort a couple of issues.

The first, the alternator doesn't have a stay and moves a little however it doesn't go far as it's stopped by the engine mount. I had a plan but that didn't work out so I took a crescent wrench and drilled a hole in it and placed the other end over the engine mount bolt head 8). Interesting look.
IMG_20190405_112810.jpg
The second, change the transaxle mounts, after Imp Ecosse and the 100 miles run to Kames last weekend I finally admitted defeat with the bleeding eardrums. The competition mounts are great but they transmit a lot of noise and vibration especially above 5000 rpm and on longer runs it quickly becomes very wearing.

It's still noisy but the bleeding has stopped :lol:, had to adjust the gear linkage as jumping out of second after changing the mounts, on that subject no jumping out of 3rd at Kames after adjusting it previously :D .

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by colimp66 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:22 am

Scott,

My ears have just healed after the Sunday run at Ecosse :lol: still :D from the drive too.

Enjoy the run this weekend in the Borders.

Cheers
Col.
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:02 pm

Cracking Day Out :D

Event started off from The Scots Pine Restaurant Eddleston near Peebles, after signing on, a bacon roll and coffee and wee chat with fellow competitors. Full entry with 40 cars.
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IMG_20190407_091015.jpg
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Mist had lifted a little as we set off on a 65 miles run to Hawick using many back roads that offered terrific views over the Scottish Borders Scenery, well it would have done if the mist had lifted from the high moor roads :roll: Inspite of this it was a great run on good roads, the use of the intercom headset made it a pleasant experience.

At Hawick we had use of JOHNSTONE OF HAWICKS cafe where we had a coffee and tiffen, sat chatting until we were called to get going again.

44 miles to Andrew Cowan's to see his car collection which includes 2 works Imps and the London to Sydney Hunter all arranged by the Jim Clark Trust who were raffling a Lotus Evora and raised £970 for the trust who are currently redeveloping the museum.

From there a 32 mile run back towards East Lothian via the longformacus to Gifford road, well used in the past when road rallying where the mist was particularly thick.

Had a very nice tea in the Goblin Ha. Gifford before setting off for home.

209 miles in total, no oil or water used, 50 mpg on the first section and 40 mpg for the day.

Noise noticed pulling out of T junctions which needs checking before next outing, sounds driveshaft related.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Tue May 07, 2019 7:38 pm

Took VAK out today - no sight of the noise I heard last time out - if you know what I mean :lol:

Oil and water all good so ready for tomorrows track night at Forrestburn hillclimb.

Weather not looking great so didn't even bother washing it,

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Thu May 09, 2019 7:01 am

Well it was well washed by the end of the night, thoroughly miserable weather but had a great time.

By the time I got there I wasn't feeling the love for the event, I had left without my helmet and had to turn around and get it thankfully hadn't got too far, then when I got on the motorway it was at a crawl so came off at the first junction but so had a good number of others so the going was quite slow initially.

Finally got to the approach road up to Forrestburn and it says road ahead closed :evil: drove past sign anyway only to find the works had been finished. Really felt someone was trying to tell me not to bother however had a great night.

First runs were about finding the levels of grip as didn't know how the tyres would cope but surprising amount of front end grip and rears quite predictable when I found the limit.

Runs 1-10 uploaded to youtube where you can see a big improvement and increasing confidence as they go on.
Run 1 search for the rest if interested.
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:00 pm

Clan hasn't turned a wheel since the last Forrestburn Track Night so with an hour to go before I was due to leave I put fuel in, check the oil/water and tyre pressure. Good to go :D

Weather was looking to be a repeat of last months but stopped as I left and remained dry for the rest of the evening :D :D :D :D

Video of one of the runs

Knocking sound during wheels spin so stopped early and will check it out before Errol Show this Sunday. No noises on the way home :?

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:12 pm

2 car shows and a track day in VAK in the last month.

Today it passed it's MOT so ready for another year, and since for a change it's not peeing down, I will take it to the Club meeting tonight :D.

Glamis Show on the 14th and the Coulter Autotest then prep if for the Full day track session at Oulton Park on the Wednesday before the National.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:36 pm

.
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by 617sqn » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:21 pm

We heard you the first time, Scott :lol: :lol:

Andy G
Member No. 7500, and Stan's best mate.
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:55 pm

Didn't think anyone was listening :lol:

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:34 pm

Cracking turn out tonight, it must have been the sun :D

Must have been 20 plus people there but more importantly 2 Clans 5 imps 1 Midget and a Spartan, sorry if I missed anyone.

Should have taken some pics but too busy chatting :o

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:30 pm

Last couple of times out I've noticed the Clan has been running hotter, normally 82-85 degrees with an occasional rise to 90 if stuck traffic although I might have sorted that previously when I changed the kick in point for the fan :? Sits at 82 then creeps up to 90 and doesn't fall back so readily. 82 degree thermostat I believe.

Anyhoo, thought there would be no harm in checking over the system, pulled the radiator out and flushed it through and nothing apparent- tubes all clear as far as I can see/flows ok. Pulled the hoses off both ends of the water pump and flushed it both ways from the header tank and block ends.

Then I gave up because of the midges but it was starting to get dark anyway. Next time I remove the thermostat and flush the block before checking that the thermostats working properly.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:24 am

Radiator back in, hose back on, thermostat removed and checked - OK, flushed through block.

Made up a new thermostat gasket, only could find some red gasket compound - that's really stick stuff :o just waiting on it drying before putting water in and bleeding. Once I'm happy everything is alright I'll add the antifreeze.

Exhaust has developed a very annoying vibration at 4000rpm and believe it may be the reason for the broken mount on the exhaust.
Fitted a couple of MINI exhaust rubber bobbins between the existing mountings, no modifications apart from a little tweek to their alignment. :D

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:17 pm

FWIW Scott.

I now mount the entire exhaust rigidly to the engine. And definitely not anywhere to the bodywork.

Previously, I used bobbins on the engine exhaust bracket and the extra vibe in the system is a COUNTER vibe to the engine vibe so shakes the box apart. Mentioned it to Eric (PimpDriver) and he said he always mounts his rigidly to the engine for the same reason and has no problems. It makes sense. The exhaust system moves with the engine and the engine mounts do their job of insulating noise. Clan004
74 Clan Crusader 1040 Red 190 bhp/ton
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:38 pm

Peter

VAK's exhaust is solidly mounted to the engine, it's likely that it's one of the two heat shields that is vibrating but more difficult to alter their mountings so altering the exhaust mounts and hope that changes the frequency.

Thanks anyway.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:05 pm

bks974c wrote:Peter

VAK's exhaust is solidly mounted to the engine, it's likely that it's one of the two heat shields that is vibrating but more difficult to alter their mountings so altering the exhaust mounts and hope that changes the frequency.

Thanks anyway.

Scott
Ok I misunderstood. I thought you meant the rubber mini bobbins had been fitted to the exhaust bracket from the get go. Certainly don't want rubber damping between the exhaust and the engine as a permanent fixture. Clan004
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:10 pm

What should be a simple task quickly becomes a PIA. :evil:

Took the Clan out today to check the changes I had done were good, temp behaved itself so drain once more, flush and refill with antifreeze mix. Easy, that is until the nozzle on the end of the hose pops off and drops into the header tank, which seems to require half the car dismantling to remove and shake the nozzle out.

Thankfully putting it back was much easier :D On the journey home temp control seemed better, rose to 85 when stationary in traffic and then fell back to 82 at moderate speeds. Gave it a wee blast on the Motorway and temp rose to 90 but didn't come back down again when speed reduced. I'm OK with 90 but with Oulton Park coming up slightly concerned what sustained high revs and a potentially high ambient temp might do, however it could be peeing down and cold then nothing to worry about :shock:

Think I need to do a little checking with the digital thermometer and check what the gauge is reporting is correct, hand on the radiator shows its working - hot on the way in cooler on the way out. the water does pass over the laminova oil cooler on it's way back to the block so worth checking how much that is influencing the engine temp.

Bobbins on the exhaust bracket have done their job no annoying vibration at 4000rpm now. :D

Reinstated the engine steady bar which seems to have stopped/reduced the "tramp" noise I was experiencing.
I think the issue was having gone back to standard engine/gearbox mounts due to liking the quiet life, the engine moves a lot more as quite a torquey engine compounded with having double UJ driveshafts it was forcing the joints to the limits of their motion. It quite surprising how much the standard driveshafts help locate the engine and box. Dominoes again. :roll:
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Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:24 pm

Checking with the digital thermometer revealed the Racetech capillary gauge is over reading by about 10 degrees at 90. Have ordered a new one despite this one being only 2 years old but was always a bit short so this time its the 12ft rather than 9ft so will fit better.

While checking went round measuring various points, the temp drops by 17 degrees just travelling to the front rad but picks up some on the way back to rear mounted header tank. The temp difference across the Laminova oil cooler was +10 degrees and the oil hoses -20.

With Oulton Park fast approaching I started preparing VAK, changed the oil and filter, replaced the gear oil, cleaned and oiled the air filter, stripped cleaned and lubricated the rear brakes and fitted new shoes. The New shoes meant I had to back off the hand brake cable a bit. Free'd off the external master switch cut off cable.
Looked out wheels and tyres and started on a list of everything else I need to do.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by johnh875 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:17 am

It can be a bother when hose fittings come off - (V8 Supercars pit lane fire)

Is your steady bar 2 piece adjustable and not a gas strut or similar that it looks like it might be? My race car has a similar thing although done much differently - a solid bar bolted from the block to parcel shelf.

I had a quirk with temperature years ago, at I suppose what you would call motorway speeds the temp would creep up slightly - running at 6000 rpm in third would quickly drop it back down, which I took to be the water pump not doing its job. Thought of doing that after not having overheating at 6000 in fourth.
Imping (on & off) for 20+ years
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:45 am

Its an actual engine steady bar, hard plastic inside as compressible material and to reduce NVH.

The water pump as an issue is in the back of my mind and have bought a new one should I need to try that.
It's a 930 pump and at one time you could pick them up easily for about £12 unfortunately like Imp bits they are getting harder to find.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:13 am

Fitted new temp gauge this morning and much happier with the way it fits as able to run it with gentle curves.

I had hoped to do a comparison test before I fitted the new one but the capillary tube broke taking it out. :cry:

Just the test drive to see if it makes any difference.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:52 am

No real change. motorway running, it's still at 90 degrees. Only change I did notice was the gauge seemed to react quicker as it warmed up. Up to temp (82 degrees) in 3 miles.

Although no reason to suspect a water pump issue it's the only thing that's not been inspected so once it has cooled down I'll remove it and check it out.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:01 pm

On the motorway (sustained high speeds) you should have more air though the rad but it does sound like (from what I've read) that the extra heat in the Laminova at high revs is entering the system on return to the engine and if the coolant flow rate is under par then it will affect flow through both engine and Laminova.

My Laminova is plumbed differently to yours. It's plumbed to keep the oil temp at the Laminova the same as cylinder head coolant temp (ie the coolant and oil temp gauges read the same most of the time at around 80C). Excess heat from the oil above coolant temp (ie the delta between coolant and oil) is dumped into the start of the (traditionally plumbed) heater circuit which also has 2x 10 row Mocal rads receiving ram air at the nose (in the spoiler) to remove as much heat as possible from the Laminova/heater circuit.
The Laminova/ heater circuit has it's own booster pump which only runs at full speed when the return Heater/Laminova coolant (EVANS) rises above above 45C. This cool Evans from the nose goes direct into the bottom hose and is pumped along with the cool Evans from the rad into the water jacket. The oil temp delta between the sensor at the Laminova and sensor at the sump is at least -10C, it often sits at -12C and the biggest oil temp delta I've seen is around -18C when at higher cruising speeds going down hill (ie high/speed low load) in normal British summer ambient air (18C- 20C).

Both designs/routes (yours or mine) are valid, both with pros and cons, and I don't claim that my routing is ultimately any better at cooling than yours, I just prefer to see the oil temp kept close to coolant temp in winter and summer. But apart from the difference between our cooling circuit routing/designs -mine has a variable coolant flow rate and a manual full-flow override mode.

Full flow (80L/min) makes a massive difference in cooling if I switch it in manually ... I can quell any spike during high ambient temps by flicking the pump manually to full flow to the point that it then runs too cool when the car is on the move in full ram air. So my guess is that your suspicions about your water pump (in)efficiency is probably right? Clan004
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:10 pm

Thanks Peter useful insight.

Because it's not a new system but a new problem I'm thinking that something has changed, as ever it's the last thing you look at - because you stop looking after that :lol:

Anyhoo, after removing the pump the bearings seem a little iffy and it might be the belt slipping at high revs due to the extra resistance :? as don't think they are that bad - easy to turn by hand but a little gritty. Drain hole is at the top of the pump when fitted on the Imp engine so that's not going to help.

No problem I have another so it's just a case of swapping it, no chance :roll:

The 930 assembly uses the Avenger/Sunbeam pump or at least a version of it, comparing them the new one is longer and upon fitting it deeper too :oops: Will post some pics later, just taking a break for a cuppa. The impeller fouls the housing - try two gaskets - better but not quite, 3 gaskets and perfect, lucky I had spare ones :D . At least I know the impeller is a close fit, can only be good for efficiency and flow.

Now to address the 2nd issue pulley alignment, as the pump is longer it projects rearward (as fitted) too far which means spacing it forward, after much messing about with washers and filing bits I get it where I'm happy :D

However, that means I also have to reposition the alternator, it's almost there now. off once more fit another washer and hopefully good to go.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:22 pm

Thinking about the position of the Laminova, the green Clan had a rear rad and the Laminova was also in the bottom hose just before the engine. It never gave any issues apart from one hot hot trackday and after that added a couple of heater matrix's underneath the headlights and plumbed them through the heater circuit with a pump.

VAK should be better able to cool with its front rad, it also has an electric pump but just to improve the heater.

When I did the temp testing the surface temp of the rad after the fan was 24 degrees by the time it gets back to the engine irrc it was 56 degrees, maybe 65 as it's picking up heat from the other copper pipe in the sill and the laminova. All seems reasonable to me.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by Peter Hurst » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:04 pm

bks974c wrote:Thanks Peter useful insight.

Because it's not a new system but a new problem I'm thinking that something has changed, as ever it's the last thing you look at - because you stop looking after that :lol:

Anyhoo, after removing the pump the bearings seem a little iffy and it might be the belt slipping at high revs due to the extra resistance :? as don't think they are that bad - easy to turn by hand but a little gritty. Drain hole is at the top of the pump when fitted on the Imp engine so that's not going to help.

No problem I have another so it's just a case of swapping it, no chance :roll:

The 930 assembly uses the Avenger/Sunbeam pump or at least a version of it, comparing them the new one is longer and upon fitting it deeper too :oops: Will post some pics later, just taking a break for a cuppa. The impeller fouls the housing - try two gaskets - better but not quite, 3 gaskets and perfect, lucky I had spare ones :D . At least I know the impeller is a close fit, can only be good for efficiency and flow.

Now to address the 2nd issue pulley alignment, as the pump is longer it projects rearward (as fitted) too far which means spacing it forward, after much messing about with washers and filing bits I get it where I'm happy :D

However, that means I also have to reposition the alternator, it's almost there now. off once more fit another washer and hopefully good to go.

Scott
Before I went the BMW route I was intending to build a 998 using a Sunbeam pump rather than the Imp one. Acquired a NOS and a used one and they are different with regard to projection. As the lugs for bolting to the block are the same perhaps the pulley offsets are different to account for the different projections of the impellor part of the pump assembly
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:38 pm

Peter H

The NOS one appears to have a pump for a viscous fan, the other a fixed fan.

If you still have them I would be interested in taking them off your hands.

Cheers
Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:23 pm

Took the Clan out again and after the usual bleeding issues took it onto the motorway did 10 miles @ 6000 rpm and it sat steady at 91 degrees - still higher than I'd like to see. on the return road it fell back to 82/83.

What now :?: put in the 74 degree thermostat and try again or remove the centre and try that. Discuss.

My thought is try the 74 first.
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by Lebowski snr » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:11 pm

Scott,
I don't know which pump you use but I would avoid using the pump with the pressed steel impeller. I have a Sunbeam Ti owned from new and the first time I changed the pump I bought an after market one with the pressed steel impeller. The running temperatures went up particularly on the motorways and during warm weather the electric fan would always run for a few minutes after switch off, this hardly ever happened with the original pump. The second replacement pump, again after market, had a cast impeller and in use lowered the temperatures to the original levels.
All other coolant items, thermostat and radiator, were the originals.
Hope this helps.

Pete.
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:14 pm

Lotus-e-Clan wrote:On the motorway (sustained high speeds) you should have more air though the rad but it does sound like (from what I've read) that the extra heat in the Laminova at high revs is entering the system on return to the engine and if the coolant flow rate is under par then it will affect flow through both engine and Laminova.

My Laminova is plumbed differently to yours. It's plumbed to keep the oil temp at the Laminova the same as cylinder head coolant temp (ie the coolant and oil temp gauges read the same most of the time at around 80C). Excess heat from the oil above coolant temp (ie the delta between coolant and oil) is dumped into the start of the (traditionally plumbed) heater circuit which also has 2x 10 row Mocal rads receiving ram air at the nose (in the spoiler) to remove as much heat as possible from the Laminova/heater circuit.
The Laminova/ heater circuit has it's own booster pump which only runs at full speed when the return Heater/Laminova coolant (EVANS) rises above above 45C. This cool Evans from the nose goes direct into the bottom hose and is pumped along with the cool Evans from the rad into the water jacket. The oil temp delta between the sensor at the Laminova and sensor at the sump is at least -10C, it often sits at -12C and the biggest oil temp delta I've seen is around -18C when at higher cruising speeds going down hill (ie high/speed low load) in normal British summer ambient air (18C- 20C).

Both designs/routes (yours or mine) are valid, both with pros and cons, and I don't claim that my routing is ultimately any better at cooling than yours, I just prefer to see the oil temp kept close to coolant temp in winter and summer. But apart from the difference between our cooling circuit routing/designs -mine has a variable coolant flow rate and a manual full-flow override mode.

Full flow (80L/min) makes a massive difference in cooling if I switch it in manually ... I can quell any spike during high ambient temps by flicking the pump manually to full flow to the point that it then runs too cool when the car is on the move in full ram air. So my guess is that your suspicions about your water pump (in)efficiency is probably right? Clan004
I have used a Davies Craig pump with controller and didn't like it for the historic rallying I was doing.
The issue I had with it was the time lag - if you booted it on a test the pump only switched to 100% when the preset temp was reached by then the temp was still rising, a manual pump switches automatically as responds inline with rpm so it's already pumping hard before the temps spike.

The more I think about my perceived issue I don't think there is one :? having removed the thermostat it's marked 84 so by my understanding that when it starts to open and is fully open sometime after than - I'd guess at 91.Changing to the one stamped 75 assuming a similar difference is 82 degree which is what I want to see for peace of mind.

Running at 91 degrees give you very little time to react if it goes higher, now there's a thought, check engine management system for temp warning.

Edit - no function as such but it does have a second fan controller which could be used to turn on a high temp warning light also available is fuel and ignition corrections vs temp so possible to add fuel to cool and/or retard ignition at say 100 degrees - anyone else done this ?

Scott
Last edited by bks974c on Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:18 pm

Lebowski snr wrote:Scott,
I don't know which pump you use but I would avoid using the pump with the pressed steel impeller. I have a Sunbeam Ti owned from new and the first time I changed the pump I bought an after market one with the pressed steel impeller. The running temperatures went up particularly on the motorways and during warm weather the electric fan would always run for a few minutes after switch off, this hardly ever happened with the original pump. The second replacement pump, again after market, had a cast impeller and in use lowered the temperatures to the original levels.
All other coolant items, thermostat and radiator, were the originals.
Hope this helps.

Pete.
Yes, looking at them side by side the pressed steel one does look like a poor design. It's the cast one in now.

Thanks
Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:19 am

Yes the EWP temp controller is reactive to temp rises! And for this reason, the position of the sensor needs to be kept well within the water jacket. The sensor should not be fitted anywhere else other than directly within the cylinder head jacket (say next to the gauge sensor) otherwise the delay between temp rise and pump reaction is lengthened proportionate to the distance from the cylinder head temp gauge sensor.

The original sensor fitting which had a copper wire coiled around it to keep it within the jacket was rubbish. Once the EWP got to full flow it would wash it out of position. I found mine washed back into the top hose on more than one occasion (greatly delaying the pump reaction to temp rise). I fixed the issue by integrating the sensor with an old T stat housing having stripped out the centre bi-metal plunger and spring (sketch below).
Image

The pump reaction is now as good as instant (but still reactive).

That said, whilst the (reactive) temp controller is a perfect solution for road work, the new optimised sensor position is still not the answer for RACING because the flow is obviously still reactive. For racing you need a constant (full) coolant flow at all times - so hence you can flick the manual override switch when racing. Clan004
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:07 pm

Running out of ideas now, temp still reading 91 and now been on the motorway yet, put in the 75 degree thermostat and no change in the running temp although it is hotter today about 26-30.

Appreciate any ideas, I'm going to bring home the IR thermometer but it maybe just too much heat being put into the system, although the heat going to the rad is cooled by the return pipe in the sill it's also being transported back to the engine. Do I remove the sill end cover and hope that air enters the sill and provides cooling. The other idea is to disconect the oil feed to the laminova and replumb through a convention or bog brush oil cooler.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:35 pm

Keep it simple and take three temp readings
    • 1) where the bottom hose goes into the engine
      2) at the cylinder head top hose and
      3) at the front rad input hose.
Do that for normal driving running at 80C and when it goes to 90C during a motorway blast (pull over to hard shoulder first! :lol: ) and compare the two sets of data.

Allows a range of interpretations - for example ....
    • a) If there is a big delta between 1) and 2) on the 90c motorway runs then the engine is overheating on the motorway (eg HG issue or the fueling map or ignition timing is out at high rpm on part throttle (cruising)) -but your rad must be working great!
      b) If there is a small delta between 1) and 2) on the 90c motorway runs then the either the rad or your hose routing (inc Laminova) might be to blame
      c) etc...


You've got to define the magnitude of "big" and "small" deltas mind you. I think with a full front rad I'd want the bottom hose to the engine to be definitely no more than 60C ... and a lot below during high speed motorway blasts to be really happy Clan004. My small 10 row front Mocals give a return of about 42C in hot weather and 32C during cooler weather .. with a heater supply hose temp around 78C - 80C (shy of cylinder head temp). I can be sure about this because I have temp sensors in few places so i can read them in real time... coolant sensors: 1.cyl head (mechanical), 2. front mocal return hose to EWP - Oil sensors: 1) Laminova return, 2) oil sump plus Ambient air sensor in front spoiler.
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:59 pm

Feed hose to engine block in the 70's, top hose in the 80's rad top in the 60's but return from the rad about the same :shock:

The rad is a double pass type from a mk1 Metro, going to check the baffle in the tank is still in place.

Edit Removed rad and poured water into one stub while tilted up and it runs out the other one, don't think it should do that :roll: Picking up borescope tomorrow to double check it and then need to find someone to repair it pronto.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:28 am

bks974c wrote:Feed hose to engine block in the 70's, top hose in the 80's rad top in the 60's but return from the rad about the same :shock:

The rad is a double pass type from a mk1 Metro, going to check the baffle in the tank is still in place.

Edit Removed rad and poured water into one stub while tilted up and it runs out the other one, don't think it should do that :roll: Picking up borescope tomorrow to double check it and then need to find someone to repair it pronto.

Scott
Sounds like you have found the problem! :D
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:16 am

Hopefully, the borescope confirm my suspicion so took the rad along to the local rad repair shop- wee one man business and he pulls one out from stock :shock: Mind this is a rare rad - a mk1 Metro, they can not be found on the internet apart from a few used ones in far flung countries and the man 10 miles along the road has one :D

£60 later I'm home and checking it out - water flows where it supposed :D too it doesn't have the bleed outlet that my does so ordered an adaptor for the hose if I have problems bleeding. Fingers crossed I don't or that it arrives before I'm off.

Away now to mod it to take the fan and mounts.

Scott
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:13 pm

Modified the new radiator to take the fan then refitted and bleed the system before taking it out again.
IMG_20190726_133238.jpg
IMG_20190726_183317.jpg
During the run the temp fluctuated between 75/80 cycling back and forth depending on load, looks like it's sorted after all the hassle. :D Is it bigger, the new water pump has a fountain coming out the weep hole, seal looks to have totally failed. :twisted:
IMG_20190726_200055_LI.jpg
I'm tempted to use epoxy putty to seal the hole and just run it until the bearing fails - will it last the track day at Oulton Park ? Take the old pump with me and change if necessary

Stick the old pump back on but will require changing the mounting again for the pump and alternator :cry:
Malcolm Anderson has a completed assembly that I'm collecting at the National so options there.

Don't really want to replumb for the electric pump as too many changes including different Alternator belt length without a water pump.

:? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? Scott :evil: :evil:
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Re: VAK 1972 Clan Crusader

Post by bks974c » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:44 am

After a glass or two and a bit of cogitating last night, the latest plan is to refit the old pump - " Sorry for doubting you. loyal and faithful servant". Rather than re spacing it I'll make up a spacer for the pulley to move it backwards and back in-line.

Much simpler - I hope :|

Thanks to everyone that made suggestions, they do help kick the old grey cells into gear.

Scott
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