A Californian drying out in South Africa

[African Imp]

Have you got any that line up spot on? They all seem to be slightly off centre but as long as the contacts are parallel with each other and mate up, being slightly off centre wouldn't make too much difference to their operation?
I use Cooper S contacts with the stronger spring and fibre heel from mini specialists which seem better made to me.

I would think your correct.

This set is marked 180 while another that looks the same is marked 070, that set looks ok.

The genuine Lucas has a small ridge on the underside where the screw fits, I guess that will grip the base plate better?

I used the Cooper S points on my race Imp back in 1971 but they are really Rocking Horse Poo to find out here!

[African Imp]

Checking water pump pullies that I have of the smaller and regular size, I see that wear is greater on the inside of the shaft hole. Given that the pulley will center with the shaft if there is no wear on the nut end of the hole, the logic is to stop the pulley from moving?

Spun up on a lathe the pulley looks good, so if the wear inside is taken care of there will be no movement.

With this one I applied the Loctite 648, then tightened the nut up, the inner end of the pulley faces to the bearing which squares things up, I left the Loctite 648 and hour, removed the nut and the pulley was firm and without movement, nut and washer back on and the assembly is ready to use.

I have since done the same fitting on a second water pump assembly using Loctite to keep the pulley central to the impellor shaft, next will be to remove the water pump from the cars engine and replace with one of them.

[African Imp]

Have you got any that line up spot on? They all seem to be slightly off centre but as long as the contacts are parallel with each other and mate up, being slightly off centre wouldn't make too much difference to their operation?
I use Cooper S contacts with the stronger spring and fibre heel from mini specialists which seem better made to me.

I see that the subject of Cooper S points was discussed some time back, November 21 in 2021, Moose tells me that they are good to 10,000 RPM, a good way of testing them is to press on the heel and if its painful to open the points they will be the stronger ones.

[The Nun]

I don't know if Mini Coopers revved to 10000 rpm though they were only 1940s design A series Morris Minor based werent they? Real antique technology and miles apart from the Imp design,
And as we know Minor clutches fly apart over 6000 that's why they're no good in an Imp.

[Uncle Henry]

One of the reasons I'm not M*ni lover, and I actually detest the Morris 1000 with a passion ! And I have experience of both. In either case, it's only the vans I have any time for. Let the Devil take 'em to burn.

AG

[The Nun]

Minors were still being sold new in 72, K reg, yet park one next to a K reg imp and the designs look 50 years apart, me too I can't see the attraction to Minors.
Maybe it's because they're so basic and simple just about anyone can work on them and that can't be said for the imp, certainly not anyone can work on them, not if you want a successful outcome anyway.

[African Imp]

I don't know if Mini Coopers revved to 10000 rpm though they were only 1940s design A series Morris Minor based werent they? Real antique technology and miles apart from the Imp design,
And as we know Minor clutches fly apart over 6000 that's why they're no good in an Imp.

Moose was quoting some 8000 RPM on the race Mini engines, so using points fit for 8000 RPM made no sense, better to up rate them as they did?

The points in my picture are standards.

[African Imp]

How about a spare water pump?

I keep a couple as built up assemblies, as one will be going into the engine bay one of these days my mind turned to another spare pump.

Which impeller, the one on the right has a stainless shaft, none magnetic so I assume its a 316 grade?

A really fine piece of work, its cast and not machined , so who made it?

The blades on the other one are in better condition though!

The alloy half with the brass nipple is due to the pump arriving with the original alloy nipple being hacksawed off!

[African Imp]

This water pump shaft in stainless steel has been moulded, the only machining is the ends to fit the bearing and thread parts.

[The Nun]

What do you mean, moulded?
Made in a mould like casting or plastic injection.
The steel shaft should not be removed according to the workshop manual, but it does come off I've seen it, so it must just be a simple press or shrink fit and removing would ruin the fit and it could end up coming loose?
An all stainless shaft and impellor,? and reinforced plastic housing? would improve the life of the pump no end as we know its shaft/impellor corrosion that ruins the seal running surfaces then it causes leakage and any Imp now not in daily use or at least run one day a week, will be leaking within 6 months and need the pump replacing, or overhauling

[moose]

A proper build A series is capable of big RPM. Just like the imp engine development with porting , manifolds, cam design has seen more power using less revs so engines now built with more modern thinking rev less, make more power and last longer.

The 10K rpm points are an old school Idea and if used only to 7000 rpm they give a more positive open and closed action, plus they are made for mtorosport applications so the quality far exceeds anything for a few quid on the internet. Therefore you get better reliability, ok they cost more but last longer, the contacts do not wear out as fast, the plastic heel does not wear as fast so you will find yourself checking the gap at service intervals where in the past it would have been a new set of points. Couple that with the condensers I make they do last a very long time. The only danger is you may forget to regularly lube the cam.

[African Imp]

A proper build A series is capable of big RPM. Just like the imp engine development with porting , manifolds, cam design has seen more power using less revs so engines now built with more modern thinking rev less, make more power and last longer.

The 10K rpm points are an old school Idea and if used only to 7000 rpm they give a more positive open and closed action, plus they are made for mtorosport applications so the quality far exceeds anything for a few quid on the internet. Therefore you get better reliability, ok they cost more but last longer, the contacts do not wear out as fast, the plastic heel does not wear as fast so you will find yourself checking the gap at service intervals where in the past it would have been a new set of points. Couple that with the condensers I make they do last a very long time. The only danger is you may forget to regularly lube the cam.

Is that Mini in reverse??

[African Imp]

What do you mean, moulded?
Made in a mould like casting or plastic injection.
The steel shaft should not be removed according to the workshop manual, but it does come off I've seen it, so it must just be a simple press or shrink fit and removing would ruin the fit and it could end up coming loose?
An all stainless shaft and impellor,? and reinforced plastic housing? would improve the life of the pump no end as we know its shaft/impellor corrosion that ruins the seal running surfaces then it causes leakage and any Imp now not in daily use or at least run one day a week, will be leaking within 6 months and need the pump replacing, or overhauling

Yes, its been moulded in a metal mould, looks like it anyway as I see no machine marks on it bar the threaded ends and the steps to take the pulley and bearing.

I did have one that the actual vanes were a plastic, Oli knows more about that one.

The shaft must press out, as the kit that came from one of the vendors to Eric Wells was a used impellor and a new shaft, fitted 6mm out too!

[spares]

Yes the shaft can push out (usually but not always) I have seen them shifted.

They need to be pressed into exactly the right place, there is very little tolerance inside the housing. Faces for the seal need to be gently faced on a lathe - Roy I know you have one of those, just need to shape a tool to fit in the face. Of course you could pin it in place once you're happy.

The complete kits from RPS (blue box from Dutch Rootes) have all the parts separate... Bit like a jigsaw puzzle...

Plastic impellers do also exist, don't rust but can crack

BEWARE - impellers can be different diameters and must be a close fit in the housing. Someone told me there are about 17 different pump types, i.e. different makes and fitments over the years. Putting them together is not a simple job and can be like juggling cheese...

Finally, the shaft part sticking out where the pulley goes on must be 5/8", not more or the nut and thick washer will not clamp down on the pully leading it to wobble loose and instantly destroy the Wodruff keyway.

Always follow the exact assembly procedure in the WSM141 workshop manual and use good quality 6202-2S bearings (not C3 ones). Ask me how I know all of this...???

[The Nun]

Ask me how I know all of this...???

How do you know all this Bob?

[spares]

If you buy me a beer I'll tell you!

[African Imp]

Yes the shaft can push out (usually but not always) I have seen them shifted.

They need to be pressed into exactly the right place, there is very little tolerance inside the housing. Faces for the seal need to be gently faced on a lathe - Roy I know you have one of those, just need to shape a tool to fit in the face. Of course you could pin it in place once you're happy.

The complete kits from RPS (blue box from Dutch Rootes) have all the parts separate... Bit like a jigsaw puzzle...

Plastic impellers do also exist, don't rust but can crack

BEWARE - impellers can be different diameters and must be a close fit in the housing. Someone told me there are about 17 different pump types, i.e. different makes and fitments over the years. Putting them together is not a simple job and can be like juggling cheese...

Finally, the shaft part sticking out where the pulley goes on must be 5/8", not more or the nut and thick washer will not clamp down on the pully leading it to wobble loose and instantly destroy the Wodruff keyway.

Always follow the exact assembly procedure in the WSM141 workshop manual and use good quality 6202-2S bearings (not C3 ones). Ask me how I know all of this...???

Thanks on the advice!

Yes I see large differences in the water pumps, cases, nipples, bearing positions, one impeller that I tried to fit yesterday jambed the seals solid as it is flat across the opposite face to the vanes, what pump did that come off I wonder?

My favorite impeller is this one, its in a pump that Eric Wells owned and I rebuilt for him, the carbon seal runs on stainless, the center hub and blades are moulded plastic, very well made.

[African Imp]

What do you mean, moulded?
Made in a mould like casting or plastic injection.
The steel shaft should not be removed according to the workshop manual, but it does come off I've seen it, so it must just be a simple press or shrink fit and removing would ruin the fit and it could end up coming loose?
An all stainless shaft and impellor,? and reinforced plastic housing? would improve the life of the pump no end as we know its shaft/impellor corrosion that ruins the seal running surfaces then it causes leakage and any Imp now not in daily use or at least run one day a week, will be leaking within 6 months and need the pump replacing, or overhauling

Yes, its been moulded in a metal mould, looks like it anyway as I see no machine marks on it bar the threaded ends and the steps to take the pulley and bearing.

I did have one that the actual vanes were a plastic, Oli knows more about that one.

The shaft must press out, as the kit that came from one of the vendors to Eric Wells was a used impellor and a new shaft, fitted 6mm out too!

I try and use bearings by SKF but sometimes you have to take whats in stock, all the bearings I have used in recent years have been the 6202 2RSC3 versions, not the C2, what is the issue with the C3 types please?

[spares]

C3 bearings are for electric motors that run at high speed. They have more play and designed to close up when they get hot. You want C0/ CN which are the normal type. Most internet sellers don't seem to know the difference.

See https://shop.eriks.nl/en/bearing-clearance

We had some pumps a few years back fitted accidentally with C3 bearings at the factory - they all fell apart and had to be re-done

[African Imp]

C3 bearings are for electric motors that run at high speed. They have more play and designed to close up when they get hot. You want C0/ CN which are the normal type. Most internet sellers don't seem to know the difference.

See https://shop.eriks.nl/en/bearing-clearance

We had some pumps a few years back fitted accidentally with C3 bearings at the factory - they all fell apart and had to be re-done

Wow! Today I know more than I did yesterday! many thanks for the link as I had no idea.

My Aerogen 4 wind charger uses the same bearings as our water pumps, those made by SKF lasted longer, I wonder were they the C2 type? All of the bearings I have here are C3, excepting one by FAG on the pump I assembled yesterday, the number is 6202 and without any other number behind it.

[The Nun]

C2 I thought you meant Citroën getting a bit technical like R2 D2

[African Imp]

C2 I thought you meant Citroën getting a bit technical like R2 D2

I had an XR3 once!

[African Imp]

Checking the impellers that I have and Bob is correct, lots of different sizes, some are smaller than others, one is shaped wrongly, as in the one in the lathe chuck is way larger in one direction than the one next to it and when fitted to the pump case just locked up on the carbon seals.

However, its probably the best impeller that I have and worth the time to machine it down to fit.

I have four others, they all have four x 1/4" holes in the impeller blade, so the one in the lathe needs the same?

[African Imp]

This is my job for the morning, the water pump on the engine has a wobble on the pulley, that is a sure way to knock out the bearings I think?

Best to just do an exchange for an assembly that is good.

[African Imp]

Replacement water pump is now fitted, next the Caltex Extended Life coolant goes back in, looks good to me after some years in the Singer Chamois Sport engine.

[The Nun]

No obvious rusting, does the inside the pump look OK still?
How old is the coolant now and have you ever had to top it up with just water?

[African Imp]

No obvious rusting, does the inside the pump look OK still?
How old is the coolant now and have you ever had to top it up with just water?

I have not opened the pump body but the inlets are nice and clean.

I very rarely top up with water, just the Caltex stuff, its been in use now a good few years!

[African Imp]

My notes on the rebuilt pump tell me that its a new impeller, that actually means a new shaft ex the UK and with a used impeller pressed on.

It was 6mm out of position on the shaft, so much for whoever supplied it?

I have used new bearings and with the plastic covers removed, then applied Wynns marine grease before refitting the covers.

The carbon seals have been used but they will be in good condition.

After a test drive I found some coolant had dripped out of the red shroud, was it coolant that split when I over filled the header tank?

Another drive and there is none seen now, there is a drip from the casing, where the paper gasket fits, I have found the four bolts that close the case body were loose, now tight, lets check again tomorrow!

[The Nun]

It's good your Imp keeps giving you a new job to do everyday so you're not getting bored though

[African Imp]

It's good your Imp keeps giving you a new job to do everyday so you're not getting bored though

Yes, its a hobby and a nice one, not too large a project?

My leaking water pump, I think the coolant seen on the lip of the red shroud for the radiator will have been sucked in from the leak in the water pump body above it?

There is a new set of seals fitted!

I have done a re check the four bolts to the pump, yes, they went tighter, then think about some radiator sealant if the leak continues?

Joint to water pump has stopped leaking, there is still a drop of coolant on the red shroud, via the carbon seals I guess, nothing drips on the floor, so progress?

[The Nun]

Keeps you from being under Jean's feet whilst she trying to do the dusting

[African Imp]

With the water pump just removed in the vice on the bench and with the same pulley re fitted I see that the impeller shaft is bent!

Pulley in the lathe and turning it looks good?

This will be an interesting impeller shaft to strip and see how it is bent?

[The Nun]

Shaft is soft as tripe, any hammering and levering to remove a stuck on pulley will easily damage the shaft i suspect?

[African Imp]

Shaft is soft as tripe, any hammering and levering to remove a stuck on pulley will easily damage the shaft i suspect?

There was I thinking that the pulley was at fault, its not a bad fit on the shaft and spins up fine in the lathe, which is good news as for me decent pulleys are in short supply.

[The Nun]

You can always get a new deep groove alloy one if you're really stuck to find a new original?

[African Imp]

You can always get a new deep groove alloy one if you're really stuck to find a new original?

I was thinking of making one but its probably outside my skill level at the moment?

What I have discovered is that the pulleys wear on the inside of the mount hole, they will clamp down just fine to begin with, then loosen and the wear starts again, the Loctite 648 stops that movement now and what I end up with is fully useable pulleys.

[African Imp]

Labels, I have them in stock!

Ok, as its my car I dont really need one do I?

[The Nun]

We don't have Caltex branded coolant here in the UK though, I've never seen any anyway.

[African Imp]

We don't have Caltex branded coolant here in the UK though, I've never seen any anyway.

Shame, I guess one by Ford or Audi or similar will do the same, I can post the technical info for you.

It sure works for me, this is the inside of the pump I removed yesterday!

I have to assume that my engine is as clean, plus the radiator's and hoses also?

[African Imp]

The Caltex Halvoline label does indeed mention Ford/GM/Jaguar/VW so you should be able to match it quite easily?

Here its around R100 a liter, say 4.20 pounds?

To me its well worth it!

[Uncle Henry]

Never had much luck with 4Life and such coolants. What's more, I don't think they're necessary. Deionised water and Blucol do just fine. You can keep you snake oil stuff.

AG

[The Nun]

I use distilled water and Bluecol, you supposed to renew it every 2 years though.

[Uncle Henry]

Supposed to, but how many people ever have ? Brake fluid is another 18 month 2 year alleged life span. Just waiting for the silicon fluid gang to get smirking (another overrated product in my view - im gonna be popular). Get an antifreeze tester and see what resolves.

AG

[The Nun]

I use silicone brake fluid, but only for the reason it doesn't damage paintwork if there's an accidental spill, I also use 2 separate larger fluid reservoirs because I don't like the fact the original only has a tablespoons worth of reserve.

[African Imp]

To my surprise the pump just removed was fitted way back in June 2020, it had new seals and bearings fitted, the seals could be re used?

The bearings have no makers name or marks on them, excepting 107 on the black plastic covers, I did pack them with Wynns marine grease and that grease still looks good, the bearings feel ok too!

This is after being in coolant some four years now, the grease has worked!

[The Nun]

Out of interest how many miles has the pump done between overhauls?

[African Imp]

Out of interest how many miles has the pump done between overhauls?

About 2500kms only, please understand that the pump was not leaking, it was a bent shaft and the wobble on the pulley that caused me to fit another pump.

With new seals and bearings which are greased.

Seems fine now!

[African Imp]

Never had much luck with 4Life and such coolants. What's more, I don't think they're necessary. Deionised water and Blucol do just fine. You can keep you snake oil stuff.

AG

Blucol is not sold in South Africa, I used the best grade antifreeze in my 1966 Jaguar 3.8 S type, the result was the alloy cylinder head was eaten away.

I did a lot of searching for the Caltex Extended Life Coolant, that included phoning Caltex to discuss its use.

They then kindly laid in a supply at my local Caltex garage in Hout Bay, South Africa, that was say six years back, a good product and good service too!

[African Imp]

The points sets that I have here with white plastic parts may have been made and sold by a UK company named Intermotor?

[African Imp]

Another local area drive, say four miles, hills and stop starts so a mix of everything, there is a very small drop of coolant seen on the red cowl, so the carbon seals are bedding in now?