A Californian drying out in South Africa

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by Bobbycham » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:20 pm

617sqn wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:49 am
What's your point, Mike ? 🤔

Andy G
Any information is a bonus , not much else going on on here.
I certainly never gave IMPeller designs any thought before today.
Alternatively he could just be bored with this page, and any addition is pushing us closer to next page

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by 617sqn » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:22 pm

I see. Its all rather random usually anyway :lol:

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by 617sqn » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:24 pm

Just got back to base from a job. This is what I'm attending to at the moment....

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by moose » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:13 pm

The pictures did not copy across otherwise it would have been more informative. The imp impeller is a semi closed type. I changed to italics and bold the section that states that an fully enclosed impeller is more efficient. I am now looking into the pump casing to impeller clearances to improve performance, better quality mechanical seals that require no bedding in and have already found some improved sealed bearings in stainless steel. Possibly a different impeller of the closed type. I will then test the pumps (closed impeller and shafts and casings machined to close the gap around standard impeller) by seeing how fast it can empty a container of a given amount of water and compare it to a NOS water pump.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:16 pm

For readers information I was asked not to post information on Imp water pumps, as my ideas may lead to others trying to repair them themselves?

I have done three of them myself, many mistakes seen and sorted out, beware new parts may not be the correct parts for your pump!
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by 617sqn » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:31 pm

Really ? What's wrong with DIY vehicle maintenance ?

Go for it, Mike. If anyone can, you can ! 8)

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by moose » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 pm

I will not step on anyone's toes if somebody out there is doing a good job for impers and the club by providing re-furbished spare pumps i will just go down the route of better performance one for my rally car if it works and is reliable and whoever is doing pumps wants to use what i have discovered (if it works) to improve reliability of standard pumps and then work with me to create higher flow versions i am cool with that. There cannot be that much secret info, it is two bearings, two mech seals, 1 gasket, 1 semi open impeller. I have enough to do with all the motorsport parts i produce and car preparation i carry out.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:59 am

The re use of existing parts is an ongoing event for me, when it is alloy often an application of epoxy fixes things.

The small spigot that feeds the side of the engine block is such an item.

On the right is a spare one that was made more serviceable with an application of JB Weld epoxy, it is now bolted in place.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:02 am

When fitting the oil sump this time I added a flat washer under the standard spring washer, this was for two reasons, the flat washer will not damage the new paint on the sump.

I have used Hylomar as the sealant as then I can remove the sump if required, the Hylomar can normally then be reused?
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:04 am

Some new items have too come from the UK as they are no longer sold in the RSA.

The Imp Club Spares Department supplied the oil and temperature sender units.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by 617sqn » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:46 am

this was for two reasons, the flat washer will not damage the new paint on the sump.
Can't see the second reason !? Doesn't a flat washer underneath a spring washer negate the sharp edges reason for being ? ie cutting in to nut and surface of the item clamped to prevent it coming undone. Just thinking aloud....

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by moose » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:17 am

Andy that is not how a spring washer locks. It is the spring trying to expand that applies a tension load on the stud/bolt. It is the tension or stretch of the bolt/stud that keeps things tight. Torque is the turning motion of the nut/bolt on the threads that is calculated to put set level of tension on the stud/bolt which is why you should apply lubricant on threads to reduce the drag of the threads rotating so more torque (stretch) is transferred to the stud/bolt.

The value of the clamping force is usually referred to as the
tightening torque.
As the clamping force is a linear function of both the turning
angle of the screw and the pitch of the thread, there is a direct
relation between the clamping force and the tightening torque
within the elastic range of the screw elongation. However, only
about 10% of the torque applied is transferred into clamping
force. The remaining tightening force is consumed in friction in
the screw joint – 40% of the torque to overcome the friction in
the thread and 50% in friction under the screw head.
If a screw is lubricated, the friction in the threads and under
the head is decreased and the relation between tightening
torque and clamping force is changed. If the same torque is
applied as before lubrication, a lot more torque will be transformed into clamping force. At worst this might lead to the
tension in the screw exceeding the tensile strength and breaking of the screw.
On the other hand, if the screw is completely dry of lubricant
the clamping force might be too small to withstand the forces
for which the joint is designed, with the risk that the screw
becomes loose.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by 617sqn » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:31 am

OK, understood. Better not buy cheap Chinese spring washers then, as they probably wouldn't have the necessary tension in-built. I think I'd rely more on Loctite these days.

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by moose » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:02 am

Regards Moose
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by The Nun » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:15 am

moose wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 pm
I will not step on anyone's toes if somebody out there is doing a good job
Stamp on a few feet Mike, lets have some good proven parts that are going to last updated with modern tech that still look more or less as it should, so I dont mean update to electric pumps etc which look totally wrong to me.

Rebuilding the originals with the same components means they dont last as the quality of those repair parts isnt what it was, so whilst someone might be doing a "good job" its only as good as the parts available to repair it with, which tend to be a sub quality version of what the original was.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by 617sqn » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:46 pm

Ditto 👍🏽

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by oli » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:08 pm

Moose,

do you lubricate the threads on head studs (when used instead of bolts), and if so, what do you use?

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:38 am

Progress on the 1966 Singer Chamois Sport rebuilt engine included testing the spin on oil filter was leak proof?

To do that I joined the oil cooler outlet and inlet pipes with a length of clear hose, then using a Lucas starter motor and spare battery I turned the engine over.

It was also a test for the new oil pump, which is pumping Shell Oils 20W/50 oil for high mileage engines, both petrol and diesels, that oil has a higher ZDDP content and will suit an Imp engine better.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by moose » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:04 am

Hi Oli. Yes i would lubricate the threads on head studs if you are using ARP studs and nuts they will come with a good lubricant. ARP lubricant can be bought on line there are others molybedium (not sure of the correct spelling) is used in most proper thread lubricants, on the ARP site there is good tech info on thread stretch and torque etc.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by The Nun » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:30 am

African Imp wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:38 am
, then using a Lucas starter motor and spare battery I turned the engine over.
You need a guard on that Roy, rotating machinery, just in case someone puts their fingers in or you get your hair caught in it, H&S and all that, most accidents happen at home etc :-o
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by 617sqn » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:36 am

South Africa is still a man's country : no poofy safety requirements. You learn by your mistakes and cotton wool wrapping is banned. Just like it was here in the good old days when we didn't have "nanny" stopping us from finding out ourselves. :)

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:50 am

The Nun wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:30 am
African Imp wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:38 am
, then using a Lucas starter motor and spare battery I turned the engine over.
You need a guard on that Roy, rotating machinery, just in case someone puts their fingers in or you get your hair caught in it, H&S and all that, most accidents happen at home etc :-o
That will include the air cooling fan to the raidiator as well?

Rootes Comps, had one I saw it in the homologation papers once?

Part number 7103412 Radiator fan and water pump guard, Official equipment group 2 F.I.A recocognition 5015
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:25 am

When cranking the rebuilt 916cc Imp engine over to check for oil leaks I also tested the compression on number two cylinder.

What was I expecting, a higher reading?

It is about the same reading as the engine I am about to remove.

I have to assume that the reading will increase as the piston rings bed in?

Note, a spare engine that I have was rebuilt with its used pistons and new piston rings, I tested that also, it reads to 1200 on the same gauge, that engine has never run since it was fitted with new rings, the bores are run in of course.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by The Nun » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:54 am

African Imp wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:25 am

never run since it was fitted with new rings, the bores are run in of course.
Arent you supposed to roughen up the bores, ie de glaze them so the new rings will bed in and not fit new rings to already run in bores? otherwise they might never bed in?
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:08 am

The Nun wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:54 am
African Imp wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:25 am

never run since it was fitted with new rings, the bores are run in of course.
Arent you supposed to roughen up the bores, ie de glaze them so the new rings will bed in and not fit new rings to already run in bores? otherwise they might never bed in?
The bores are fresh as in a rebore to accept the brand new Hepolite Powermax 0.060" sized pistons that I bought off Bob Allan at Imp 04 on the Wirral, Cheshire.

So they will have been honed after the re bore?
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:54 am

A start yesterday and the progress made will see the engine that is in the car removed today. :D
Removal of the heat shield between the silencer and the Stromberg carbs added to the work, which is why the shields used to be discarded when the cars were serviced?
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:36 am

Having the back drop panels connected to their lower parts was remembered on the heat shield side but not on the radiator side.

It is an absolute pain and means that I have to re position the radiator and crawl under the car with a screw driver to free off the retaining screw, yet another reason why panels were removed in service?
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by The Nun » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:39 am

Ah I see the bores have been honed, you said they had been already run in which is why I asked as honing isn't running in you have to use the engine for that.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by The Nun » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:42 am

Why did you take the rad out, its extra work you don't need to to do just an engine swop?
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:50 am

The Nun wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:42 am
Why did you take the rad out, its extra work you don't need to to do just an engine swop?
I always do, then the engine to transaxle bolts plus the Lucas starter bolts are more accessable, I can also wash out the radiator.
While I did later in the day, muck came out, sediment I guess, not a huge amount but the radiator is cleaner inside now.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:50 pm

Unfortunately I found that the plug hole nearest the transaxle had worn threads, so I called in Nicholas to put a Helicoil in.

That was not cheap, labour and traveling time saw me asked for R750 for the job, about 40 pounds?

Still it was done here and as always Nic does a good job.

The small section that was left is the section from the standard coil that was not required.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:13 pm

Why would the teeth on the flywheel ring gear wear more in one area that others?

The starter sounded normal, there are nine teeth on the starter gear.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by 617sqn » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:28 pm

I would say £40 was a bargain, to be honest ! :o I think you'll find that most engines tend to stop in the same place ? Therefore, it follows that the starter will pick up at the same section too. A consequence of the firing order, perhaps. 1 - 3 - 4 - 2.

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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by The Nun » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:16 pm

Maybe a pre engaged starter might help on your teeth wear that way the pinion isn't crashing into mesh with it turning?
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:19 pm

with the head fitted dont you end up with a cylinder full of swarf doing it like that
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:34 pm

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:19 pm
with the head fitted dont you end up with a cylinder full of swarf doing it like that
Yes, we vacuumed what we could to remove the swarf, then I used a high pressure air line and with a face mask on, that blew the rest of the junk out, the face mask turned out to be important, as when the air was blasted into the cylinder I could feel small pieces of thread tappings hit my face.

I should add that the valves were set to be closed before this process was started.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:13 am

617sqn wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:28 pm
I would say £40 was a bargain, to be honest ! :o I think you'll find that most engines tend to stop in the same place ? Therefore, it follows that the starter will pick up at the same section too. A consequence of the firing order, perhaps. 1 - 3 - 4 - 2.

Andy G
So if I want to re use the flywheel on this crank I turn it 180 degrees from where it is now? The ring gear teeth are fine excepting those that are damaged.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:56 am

Having Nic here to do the Helicoil reminded me of a few years back when he sorted out the threads on the 998cc engine block I had made.
Some cylinder head threads were less than good, so Nic put an insert into all ten thread holes.
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by The Nun » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:39 am

Like everything it's ok except where it's no good. Flywheel is doweled for balance isn't it so you put it on in the same place every time?
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Re: A Californian drying out in South Africa

Post by African Imp » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:43 am

The Nun wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:39 am
Like everything it's ok except where it's no good. Flywheel is doweled for balance isn't it so you put it on in the same place every time?
There are two dowel pegs opposit each other, so you can fit it either way?
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