Gilbert: The Green One- and Monte "head" for Hatton

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Mark One
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Gilbert: The Green One- and Monte "head" for Hatton

Post by Mark One » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:14 pm

Meet Gilbert, my 1966 Imp Super. I bought him in June 2012, but I got to know of him in 2011, but I did not know this when I set off to view Gilbert for the first time.
Gbert 12-08-12 DSC_0349_031.JPG
I saw the advert for him on Car and Classic. A few e-mails and phone calls later the family and I were on our way up to Stockport to have a look (in the pouring rain- remember last, so called, summer?). It was while talking to the owner about how he acquired the car as part of his house purchase that I recalled the article in the Manchester Evening News of the previous year- a topic that was also discussed on this forum, at that time, in the Internet Finds section (I think).

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ry--859192

The car was in exceptional nick for its age and very, very solid. It hadn't been taxed (so presumably driven) since 2008. With only 50 odd thousand on the clock was worth a punt. An offer was made and duly accepted. So, soaking wet, we went back home to make preparations to pick the car up the following weekend.

I'll leave it there for now, and continue the story later of Gilbert's return to the road and his current state of health as I attempt to get him fully smartened up for this year's 50th celebrations.
Last edited by Mark One on Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by 19James » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:27 pm

Very smart :)
What year is it? I presume it's a Rootes 60's car because of the badges and the model :)
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:44 pm

James, does this give you a clue? :wink:
Mark One wrote:Meet Gilbert, my 1966 Imp Super.
It looks to be a lovely wee Imp. 8) I am looking forward to the next instalment.

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by Dom » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:37 am

Interesting back ground! Are those bunkers ? Looks like it's at an airport or somthing :lol:

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by pubcrawler » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:18 am

A nice colour :D , brown interior by any chance :?: :lol:
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One-part Two

Post by Mark One » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:13 pm

Guys. Thanks for the comments.
Yes, it is brown on the inside. There's joke in there somewhere, but I can't think of it: "I say, I say, I say, what's green on the outside and brown on the inside?" "I don'k know, what is green on the outside, etc, etc.......". Surely some wag can finish this on off :D !

Back to the story:

One week later, still raining. I'd hired a retired hotelier by the name of Martin, who happens to have a hobby that involves tractors and a recovery vehicle, to help me get the car back from Stockport to Sleap Aerodrome (well spotted Dom 8) ) in Shropshire.

Here's a few pics of the exercise:
Gilbert 16-06-12 IMG_2313_033forum.JPG
Gilbert being towed onto the truck.
Gilbert 16-06-12 IMG_2317_037forum.JPG
Getting tied down and ready to go.
Gilbert 16-06-12 IMG_2320_032forum.JPG
On the M6: Fastest Gilbert's been in years!
Gilbert 16-06-12 IMG_2321_036forum.JPG
Back at the airfield (still raining).
It was then down to work to first of all understand more fully what I'd actually shelled out cash for, then to start the job of re-commissioning and hopefully get Gilbert roadworthy and MOT'd in time for the National at Cromford. Plenty of time. After all, the National was six weeks away and Gilbert had only been off the road for 8 years. More to follow.....
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by Mark One » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:39 pm

Part Three:

Having got Gilbert into a nice dry hangar it was time to get down to the business of getting him going again. I have already posted on this bit in another section of the forum:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24156#p228208

Prior to taking Gilbert for his MOT, the family and I used half a bottle of T-Cut to peel back years of surface grime and Gilbert came up looking really quite respectable. Inside, the front carpets were pretty mouldy and not at all worth saving, so they went and so did most of the old car smell, luckily.

So here are a few more pictures:
Gilbert pre T Cut 30-06-12 IMG_2340_034forum.JPG
Solid floorpan and no smelly front carpets
Slight rip on the drivers' seat. Something else for later on.
Gbert 12-08-12 DSC_0350_038forum.JPG
Half a bottle of T-Cut later
imp 05-08-12 DSC_0318_041forum.JPG
Show and Shine, Cromford
imp 05-08-12 DSC_0335_039forum.JPG
2nd place in the most original category
The trip to and from Cromford went really well. My wife, who followed in our modern there and back as a type of back up vehicle-cum-tent transporter, remarked at how the exhaust cleared as the car got more miles under its belt. Gilbert coped well with all the hilly bits and enjoyed the run out to Castleton- well half of it. We got as far as Chatsworth, and started to notice a mis-fire. Tick over was fine, but under load, the car started to struggle. We decided to head back to the campsite, just in case. Back at the site, Andy Jones suggested that the problem was probably down to the use of a new condensor. So off to a second hand stall, where I bought two old ones and fitted one. This sorted the problem completely- Well done Shrigley Engineering. Another suped up imp engine courtesy of Andy Jones 8).

By the time we got the car back home, the engine was running really sweetly. All the years of idleness, blown away during the course of the National week.

The only other matter to report, was a gradual appearance over the National weekend and subsequent weeks of an oily film and build up in the radiator. No loss of water, or overheating, but a sure sign of an underlying head problem. This was revealed later when, at the end of the summer, I laid Gilbert up and started the preparations for 2013.

To be continued.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by pubcrawler » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:27 am

I have a pair of good condition brown front seats that came out of my '65 Orchid green Imp if you're interested :D .
Can upload photo's if necessary :o .
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by Mark One » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:41 pm

pubcrawler wrote:good condition brown front seats
Martin- I've just sent you an e-mail.

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:57 pm

Great write up, Mark. :D I really like your car! 8) I miss trundling about in my standard metallic brown Mk. 3 Imp Super... Happy days... :wink:

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- Part 4

Post by Mark One » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:11 pm

Late Autumn, and time had arrived to lay Gilbert up for a few months. We'd had some great drives out into the Shropshire Hills since coming back from the National. One favourite regular jaunt was to go and purchase a crate of two of Big Nev's bitter from the Six Bells brew pub in Bishops Castle. A cracking little pub with larger than life Nev as the jovial "mine host". The run to and from Bishops Castle is perfect imping territory. A bit of fast A road and dual carriageway around Shrewsbury followed by winding, twisting, undulating A road through Ponstbury and over the hill with a fast twisting decent into Bishops Castle.

Back to Gilbert: I'd lined up another Martin for the next phase of work. Not the Martin with the tractors and recovery vehicle, but this time a Martin with, erm, a recovery vehicle, and a car restoration business. Martin O'Dowd, former proprietor of the Moggie Factory in Telford, who did such a fantastic paint job on my Traveller in 2005 that I fancied using his services to give Gilbert a new lick of paint. Martin's business is now run mainly by his son under the guise of "Retro Autos", and is still in the same Telford premises. Retro Autos no longer only specialises in Moggies and has diversified. Martin has some interesting imp related stories with previous clients, including an occasion when he was visited by Corgi who wanted to use a Stiletto in his workshop as the basis of the model they had planned to introduce. This model was subsequently produced by Lledo and Martin was given the clay pre-production model as a payment in kind. Whilst visiting Martin with Gilbert to scope out the work on the imp, he had in his workshop a Hillman Hunter of Irish origin that he is presently restoring for an Irish customer. I had arranged with Martin to pick Gilbert up on New Years day after I'd removed Gilbert's engine, gearbox and stripped out much of the trim.

Anybody recognise the white imp on this:
http://www.retroauto.co.uk/

http://www.sixbellsbrewery.com/sixbells/

Here are a couple of shots of Gilbert heading off on 1st January:
DSC_0434 01-01-13 imp_042forum.JPG
Gilbert on the Retro Autos pick up.
DSC_0435 01-01-13 imp _043forum.JPG
Ready for the off.
Whilst Gilbert was away, I turned my attention to dismantling his curly block engine, but that's for the next instalment.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:46 pm

I like the sound of the Six Bells and your run out to it! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by Mark One » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:16 pm

ImpManiac wrote:I like the sound of the Six Bells and your run out to it!
I'm sure you can find an interesting route from your manor :D
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- Engine/Gearbox

Post by Mark One » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:55 pm

During the cold dark months, the conservatory at home became the engine workshop (courtesy of a very understanding Mrs. Mark One :roll: ). Gilbert's giblets got placed on the work-mate and dismantled, various bits cleaned up and everything inspected. The block, head, pistons and crank went up to Andy Jones (Shrigley Engineering) with the intention of having it all cleaned, crank polished, new guides, skim, etc. However, Andy's eagle eyes spotted a serious flaw in piston No.3 liner at the top. You can see in the photo the pitted steel, which could be the source to the appearance over the summer of oily scum in the radiator. A corresponding corroded patch in the head where it rested on this part of the block really meant it was not going to be worthwhile trying to skim it out to try to save the engine/head.
IMG_2448_045forum.JPG
Corroded part of liner
A bit of personal head scratching, and off to the back of my "shed" to locate bits of engine that had been acquired with a previous imp purchase. After further dismantling in the conservatory and liberal applications of diet coke into a couple of the bores of one of the blocks to free up two seized pistons (thanks Professor Jones for the chemistry lesson :idea:), it was back up to Andy's with two blocks, an L4 head, two cranks and an assortment of pistons. There was enough out of this lot to make up a whole engine plus a short engine as a spare. In fact, one of the blocks and cranks, if not totally unused, had seen very little action :o. A couple of intervening weeks over Christmas and following the purchase of gaskets, bearing shells, timing chains, etc (thanks Imp Spares and Ben Boult!!), it was back up to Andy's place to pick up all the clean shiny stuff and start the engine re-build back in the workshopservatory. Mrs. Mark One certainly deserved her Christmas present :lol: .
IMG_2447 engine_050forum.JPG
Engine ready to go back in Gilbert.
IMG_2447 gearbox_049forum.JPG
Gearbox cleaned up. A couple of oil leaks, hopefully sorted around the rear flange and gear selector shaft.

Bodywork related matters next....
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- Engine/Gearbox

Post by long_gone_John » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:05 am

Mark One wrote: A bit of personal head scratching, and off to the back of my "shed" to locate bits of engine that had been acquired with a previous imp purchase. After further dismantling in the conservatory and liberal applications of diet coke into a couple of the bores of one of the blocks to free up two seized pistons (thanks Professor Jones for the chemistry lesson :idea:), it was back up to Andy's with two blocks, an L4 head, two cranks and an assortment of pistons. There was enough out of this lot to make up a whole engine plus a short engine as a spare.
:wink: ...Ahhh! Now that really takes me back. I used to build/rebuild with the contents of breakers bits and odds 'n sodds - never a 'smoker' among emm 8)

Keep it Real... lovely motor M8

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:04 am

'Tis a lovely car. Enjoyable thread too. :D

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by pubcrawler » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:16 am

Good to meet up with Mark (the owner of Gilbert) last week and pass on my unwanted front seats.
Jus a pity the car was still at the sprayers :o , look forward to seeing it at a future show :D
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by Mark One » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:49 pm

Cheers Martin. Good to meet with you too.

Looking forward to getting the car back and finishing it off with those wonderful seats :D

Here's to the summer 8)
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- Bodywork

Post by Mark One » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:04 pm

Bringing the story up to date now. Here is where we are at with Gilbert.

Work progressed much more slowly than anticipated due to the exceptionally cold weather and prolonged winter. However, Martin and his son at Retro Autos cracked on as best they could. Gilbert was further stripped and prepared for painting. As is the norm, more rust showed up than anticipated, but nothing alarming. The rear lower quarters were probably the worst affected areas. Both these needed cutting out and replacing. A couple of wheel arch repairs needed and a hole appeared behind the front screen (that explained the rain leaking in on more than one occasion :!: ).
IMAG4197_053forum.JPG
Filler and holes in the rear near side quarter
New lower rear quarters fitted:
IMAG4222_047forum.JPG
IMAG4189_046forum.JPG
And here is where Gilbert is at now. This is him in primed state. There is still a lot to do, so I am now resigned to not having an imp for the Coventry IMP 50 celebrations in May, but not at all despondent. Gilbert is coming along nicely.
IMG_2442_051forum.JPG
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- Bodywork

Post by ImpManiac » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:01 pm

Mark One wrote:Gilbert is coming along nicely.
I am inclined to agree. :mrgreen: Very nicely, in fact. :wink:

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by bdann0875 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:48 am

Car is looking good.
Keep up the good work.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by welshrover » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:48 pm

looking good . Imp007 8)
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by gnatman » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:06 pm

The car is a real cracker. Great colour too.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- Getting Greener

Post by Mark One » Tue May 07, 2013 10:54 pm

Thanks for comments so far, guys. Time for an update:

Imp 50 in Coventry came and went sans Imp, however, it was still one of the most memorable, and most enjoyed events I've been to with the Imp Club. However, it was with a little trepidation on Saturday that we set off for Coventry in true Carry on 1960s Camping style in my trusted Morris Traveller packed to the rafters with family and camping gear. I was hoping that somehow it would be ok to join in the fun and games with at least a classic car, albeit front engined and most definitely, non-impish. I need not have worried. From arriving at the camp site on the Saturday, to leaving the Midland Air Museum on the Monday, the Traveller fitted in really well. Impers and non-impers alike passing comment and the traveller catalysing many a conversation everywhere we went :) . What a brilliant club! I have to say my son's idea of a window sticker really paid off in helping me explain my impless predicament :oops:
IMG_2457_054forum.JPG
Window sticker in the Traveller
So it was on arrival home, after seeing so many fantastic imps, that I decided that today (Tuesday), I'd pop down to Retro Autos and see how Gilbert was shaping up. Martin O'Dowde had already contacted me over the weekend requesting that he has my spare wheel to paint along with the four already on the car, so there was my ready made excuse. Gilbert was outside enjoying the sunshine looking pretty stunning in the new Orchid Green paint job. Windscreen and rear quarter windows are now refitted. The wheels, doors, front lid and engine cover are the main items left to paint as well as some undersealing and rust proofing prior to re-attachment of the remaining pieces of trim. Here are some shots from today:
IMG_2490_055forum.JPG
IMG_2491_056forum.JPG
IMG_2492_057forum.JPG
Will it be ready in time for Perth, or will the Traveller need another run out?
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by pubcrawler » Wed May 08, 2013 6:21 am

Looking really good can't wait to see it in the flesh :o . Makes me want to go and re-spray mine :lol: .
Good to meet up at Coventry and I love your Moggy Woody :D
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Wed May 08, 2013 1:43 pm

Ah! The Traveller was yours! :mrgreen: What a lovely car! Both Mrs. IM and I liked that lots too.

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by Mark One » Wed May 08, 2013 10:59 pm

'Twas I!...Were you camped on the field near us? Hope I didn't trip over your guy ropes on the way back from the clubhouse, hic! :wink:
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Thu May 09, 2013 10:29 am

^^ If your question about camping was addressed to me, Mrs. IM and I were not camping on the field. We were bedding down at her sister's house in Burbage, near Hinckley - only about 20 minutes away by car. :D

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by Mark One » Thu May 09, 2013 7:45 pm

ImpManiac wrote:^^Mrs. IM and I were not camping on the field.
I wonder who's guy ropes it was then? :lol:
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Fri May 10, 2013 11:28 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:?

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Gilbert's home!

Post by Mark One » Tue May 28, 2013 9:18 pm

Due to the long cold-snap earlier in the year, it did take longer than anticipated to get the paint finished, but here he is back at base and ready for me to put all the bits and bobs back in/on:
DSC_0475_065forum.JPG
DSC_0479_062forum.JPG
I am rather pleased with outcome.

Here's the engine and transaxle going back in on Monday:
image-4-1_064forum.JPG
image-3_063forum.JPG
Today, my son and I replaced the heater hoses using the instructions from the Forum "How To" section. It took a couple of hours to do the first side, and then only an hour to do the remaining side. All went in rather well :D. A good set of instructions.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by pubcrawler » Wed May 29, 2013 4:43 pm

Best part of any restoration Mark is putting the bits back on :D , providing you know where they all go :lol:
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Thu May 30, 2013 4:22 pm

The car is looking spot on! Very nice indeed! :mrgreen:

Imp005

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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- Back on the road!!

Post by Mark One » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:23 pm

It's been a few hectic weeks of juggling work commitments and finding time to get Gilbert back up an running. I finally got the engine and electrics reconnected, filled all the fluids, for good measure replaced throttle and choke cables and put one of Malcolm's balls :oops: in its appropriate spot.

It was now getting close to actually firing up the little tinker, and I have to admit I actually had butterflies in my stomach :o . Would it start? If it did, would it fill the air with smoke? etc, etc,......So, here goes: First of all, I turned the engine over without the plugs to get the oil pressure up and distributed. Then the first try in anger and- Nothing. The fuel pump wasn't priming, so it was disconnected and primed by hand. Reconnected the pump and fuel line. Second attempt, still no joy..... Then third go, and the engine fired into life :D It sounded great. Smoooooth, rattle free, no leaks! The stainless sport exhaust that I'd fitted sounded superb. Eventually, we were up to temp and whilst it was on the way up, I had the water bleed pipe connected from the by-pass valve and into the open radiator. It wouldn't idle, so kept the choke out slightly and tried to engage 1st. It wouldn't go in. 2nd? No good. 3rd and 4th were engageable. Bit puzzling this, so I switched off the engine and tried to engage the gears with everything stopped. This worked, so I started the engine again and this time got all four gears (and reverse), so it was out onto the taxi way and off for a little spin on the airfield perimeter track just as daylight was beginning to fade. Brilliant! That beer was going to taste good tonight :D . A little bit of fiddling with the mixture on the 1.5 inch stromberg, richening it seemed to get a nice even idle, and I decided to quit while on top and return the next day to take full stock.

The following day, I checked all lights worked, wipers, etc and put on the nice shiny new number plates and Gilbert was ready for his road test. I took him home (20 miles) eyeing the temperature gauge with regularity, but got home without a glitch and parked Gilbert up for the afternoon on my drive way, gleaming in the sun 8) . Once the engine cooled, it was time to check the colour of the plugs and was pleased to note they were all a nice biscuit brown colour. The water in the radiator was at the level it was before the trip also, and oil level was just where it started :) . Then later, in the early evening, took him back to the airfield. So forty miles so far and no major issues.

One thing I did notice when doing my final preparations, is a bit of play in one of the track rod inner bushes, so that'll need sorting before MOT time at the end of July. Also, I have a small leak of transmission oil from one of the drive shaft seals, which is a bit disappointing because I had changed these shortly before last years MOT and up until taking Gilbert off the road, there were no leaks from this area. Something, however that I'll sort when time permits....In the meantime, Bob Allan is sourcing a double lipped seal which should do the trick.

So here's a few photos:
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Engine almost ready to go.
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Back at the airfield after Gilbert's re-introduction to the roads.
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Nice and shiny, eh?
I am now waiting for new carpets to arrive courtesy of Coverdale Carpets in Wigan and can then complete the job by fitting also the excellent seats that Martin "Pubcrawler" Parkes dropped off a few month back at my house.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by pubcrawler » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:42 am

Glad to see Gilbert is up and running, looks like you've made a really good job and can't wait to view it in the flesh :o :lol:
Owner of the Green Heartbeat Imp from Aidensfield!
Martin Parkes.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:08 pm

That is really good to hear, Mark! :D Gilbert is looking fabulous and, from the sound of it, running nicely too. Lovely work! :mrgreen:

IM 8)
Paul Harrison
imp: a small demon : FIEND : a mischievous child : URCHIN
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- Pubcrawler Seat Package

Post by Mark One » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:04 pm

Got the new carpets delivered this week from Coverdale. Having mused over a many different colours, in the end, had to go for poo brown again. Anything else just would not have been proper :lol:
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Surprised to see the difference in colour though between the old carpet and the new set.
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And now the piece of resistance (drum roll please :roll: ) Martin Parkes, take a bow. These are your seats:
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.

Job done! Well nearly. I have been getting a bit of fuel starvation when out on my little test drives. First off, the filter on the inlet to the fuel pump got blocked. Removed it, thinking "can't be any more in there". But there was. The next time it happened (after 40 trouble free miles), the fuel pump was hosting a crud convention, and a piece of cellophane was partially blocking the filter gauze :oops: . Then, the following day a few more problems, but not as severe. Still pulling crud through though. Funny, but there were none of these antics before I took Gilbert off the road last Autumn. So today, the petrol tank came out and the fuel line got replaced with nylon tubing. The petrol tank also had a good swill around and few more bits and pieces came out. Although the old fuel line wasn't rusty on the the outside, I could see a definite orange colour in the bore, and, it was very brittle upon pulling off the car. It quite easily snapped into three or four pieces. So, a job that I should have done when I got the car last summer.

We'll now see how Gilbert performs over the weekend!
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by ImpManiac » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:20 am

Your Imp is looking really good! :mrgreen:

I think I'll go down the nylon fuel pipe route when I am reassemling my Chamois.

IM 8)
Paul Harrison
imp: a small demon : FIEND : a mischievous child : URCHIN
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One

Post by pubcrawler » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:09 am

Interior looks just as mine was when I bought it only a lot cleaner :lol:
So glad the seats went to good use, finishes it off nicely :D .
Owner of the Green Heartbeat Imp from Aidensfield!
Martin Parkes.
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Re: Gilbert: The Green One- He's ready for the road North!

Post by Mark One » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:01 pm

We are off Perth next week. It's been a bit busy with MOT preparation and little tweeks here and there. But, since the rebuild, Gilbert's done over 600 miles, gone through plenty of warm up/ cool down cycles, so here's a list of jobs in no particular order:

- Two new track rod end inner bushes fitted prior to MOT.
- New rubber gaiters (complete set) fitted to steering rack, again prior to MOT as old ones were leaking.
- Replaced one n/s brake cylinder (siezed over the winter).
- Got MOT with no advisory notices :D
- Replaced 1.5 inch Stromberg with original Solex and added a nifty little chrome topped K&N air filter. The Stromberg just wouldn't settle and it gave a flat spot at around 2700 rpm. Pity really. It's a nice looking carb that I bought for an imp in the 80's, but couldn't get it to operate properly back then. However, I thought that was down to me then in my "yoof" not realising that this type of carburettor needs a drop or two of oil in the dash pot :oops:. Car runs great now though with the Solex!
- Re-torqued the head and checked valve clearances.
- Replaced offside drive shaft u/j.
- Retarded ignition a few degrees- from 10 deg to ~6 deg at 1000 rpm (to arrest slight pinking on hard acceleration).

Please say hello if you recognise Gilbert up in Scotland, that's if we make it :wink: !
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