Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawasaki Engine.

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Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawasaki Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:50 pm

Hi, I have been rebuilding my Stiletto for about 3 years now, but the project has hit a few snags with vinyl roof supply and mainly the weather as I don't have a garage any more. Funds were also becoming a problem as the car really needs a lot spent on to get it back to the condition it was when I previously owned it.

Well last week after chatting to some people at Zcars I have decided to put a bike engine in and a full roll cage and go an have some track day fun.
Just finish off the welding and paint the whole car the original claret, roof as well. Imp023
Rip the rest of the mouse eaten interior out and a pair of bucket seats with full harnesses.

Engine has been bought (GPZ900R) and I have a chain drive to diff conversion sourced.

Has anyone else gone the bike power route?
Disk conversion for the front brakes is a must.

I'm going to mid mount the engine for better balance.

Any thoughts or things to look out for?
Last edited by Dogsbody on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
70 Sunbeam Stiletto (again)125bhp Kawasaki Ninja power.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Lars Hagermark » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:40 pm

Dogsbody wrote:... I'm going to mid mount the engine for better balance.
Static balance will certainly be more towards 50-50 but, considering Imp suspension design, I'm not sure it will be good for dynamic balance.
Interesting project though. Hope to see more of it. Good Luck. :)
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:21 pm

I do lots of trackday with my Ford Puma and fancy using the Stiletto for some.
We live about 6 miles from a racing circuit and have 4 airfield within 15 miles that are used for trackday.
So it will get used quite a lot. :D
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by imp.sport » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:06 am

Dogsbody wrote: Has anyone else gone the bike power route?
Disk conversion for the front brakes is a must.

I'm going to mid mount the engine for better balance.

Any thoughts or things to look out for?
Plenty have attempted it and sold them as an unfinished project. Only a few have finished the job though.
Most on here have only a small interest in cutting an Imp up to take another engine so looking here may get you what your after.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... +Imp&mid=0

Here is a video of one that got finished.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3kqSAT1j_k

If you do this remember to wear something like this
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Otherwise before you know it you will need a pair of these.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by ImpManiac » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:32 pm

Dogsbody, a bike engine can indeed be fitted mid-ships in an Imp, Stiletto or what have you. It has been done. :idea: But do not underestimate how tricky it can be. :!: The best advice is to be certain that this is the route you want to take and to commit to the task. Otherwise, a sound Stiletto shell, now a rare beast, would get cut up for potentially nothing.

So go ahead and plan out what would need to be done. Just please don't go cutting a sound shell about until you understand the full implications of what you are taking on. :wink:

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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by oli » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:51 pm

Get a rough saloon shell instead if you feel you still want to do it - even a remotely solid Stiletto shell is now a VERY rare thing. One day you WILL regret having ruined it, and even if you aren't kicking yourself by then, others will be lining up to do it for you!
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:57 am

I shall heed all the advice, and won't start cutting anything till I'm sure.
I'm intending to make up a separate frame with the diff mounted and engine which will bolt into the car, using some of the original engine / gear box mounts.

I do know how rare the Stiletto's are now, 74 when I last looked at "how many left" But me an this car have "History" going back about 25 years.
I have used it for 12 car rallying in the past and fancy the pair of use having some track fun this time around.

Image
Image

There was a chap at Keevil a few weeks back with a very nice imp out on track with Motorsport Events.
All properly put together with competition parts. YYU 610H
http://www.mgphoto.co.uk/mp_client/pict ... _1254t.jpg
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by bazzateer » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:26 am

Put the Kwakker in the Allegro, much better idea! :D
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by bks974c » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:46 am

Baz

Looks like an old photo when the car was looking much better.

You can understand why he would keep the Stiletto but why would he have kept the Allegro :roll: :wink:

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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by basil imp » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:08 am

Why don't you put the engine out the back like the original imp engine and drive a differential straight off the bike engine. It was done a while ago, it means you can keep the stock suspension (otherwise if you go mid mount then you will need to change it) and only removal of the parcel shelf is needed. I have a few pictures somewhere. Balance would still be good as the bike lump will be roughly the same weight.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by bazzateer » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:20 am

bks974c wrote:Baz

Looks like an old photo when the car was looking much better.

You can understand why he would keep the Stiletto but why would he have kept the Allegro :roll: :wink:

Scott
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:15 pm

Allegro was the wife's. worst car ever made. :lol:
I have a company who will add the original gear box output spline / flanges to the diff for me.
So No cutting and I will be using original drive shafts and suspension. :D

That pictures was 24 years ago. My daily driver was a 2.1 Pinto powered MK2 Escort in those days. :shock:
In the back ground here.
Image
I want the engine mid mounted as it will improve the balance of the car.
Rear engined tend to be tricky to catch when they go sideways.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by bks974c » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:06 am

Dogsbody wrote:I want the engine mid mounted as it will improve the balance of the car.
Rear engined tend to be tricky to catch when they go sideways.
The Imp is actually a very good handling and balanced car, just watch them in competition.

Good shocks are essential, getting them sideways is not usually the problem a little lift and being gentle on the inputs will usually bring it back in line.
Over reacting to it puts it into a series of swings which ends in a spin.

Scott

Sideways pic at start of topic
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17060&hilit=gls
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by bazzateer » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:14 am

In my experience they only let go when you get it wrong.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by 67cali » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:50 pm

oli wrote:Get a rough saloon shell instead if you feel you still want to do it - even a remotely solid Stiletto shell is now a VERY rare thing. One day you WILL regret having ruined it, and even if you aren't kicking yourself by then, others will be lining up to do it for you!
I think that's a bit of an unfair comment. Just because a majority of people on here would not like to see a coupe cut up, doesn't mean EVERYONE would regret doing it. I appreciate moods and attitudes change as you age, but not everyone has to conform to a set way of thinking, that's what we have recently been saying about the club in another thread, and how good it is that we are so diverce.

It has come to light that he has some serious history with a particular Stiletto, but if it was me, I'd not want to bother with a saloon, I don't like them that much, it's coupes and vans that float my boat.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by classiccapsule » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:44 am

Wahey, same colour as mine. Claret Metallic-ish. First one I've ever seen :-)
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:53 pm

Yes, I had the bonnet resprayed when I owned it first time.
Need the whole car doing now, but I do have some cellulose the right colour tucked away :wink:
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:59 am

classiccapsule wrote:Wahey, same colour as mine. Claret Metallic-ish. First one I've ever seen :-)
I have a couple of litres of the original pint in Cellulose Claret if anyone is interested?
Don't think you can buy Cellulose any more.
Not sure what its worth ?

I have decided to go to a flat colour for ease of painting and as the car won't be going original I'm not to bothered.
Ford Rosso Red it will be, my favourite colour for a car.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by SuperSport » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:48 pm

DB,

Quite apart from any cutting that you may need to drop the bike engine into the shell, you are going to need some serious amounts of weight loss to make things fly and not knock out the bike engine in minutes few.

My BMW bike motor puts out Sport-sized power and gets me to 60 in little over the amount of time for the car drivers at the traffic lights to ask 'Where is the bike that was just here'. But the point is that my bike is under a quarter of the Imp kerb weight with a much smaller profile to push through the air.

Bike motors appear good on power(if your ears can stand the 10,000 rpm), however the torque is roughly the same as an Imp Sport at twice the revs and are not designed to haul 5-600 kilo (even assuming you could trim at least 300 lb of its waistline) In perspective it would be like trying to enjoy 'spirited' riding with (at least) 4 'average sized' pro rugby playing mates on the back !

I understand the 'track day fun' bit, but unless you are going to trailer it everywhere you are going to need it to be road legal and more importantly road drive-able. The gearing will be pretty low in order to get moving and this means a lot of gearchanging - they are built to do 150 on 5 gears and that is a lot of work at normal road conditions.

Bottom line, a huge amount of work to fabricate the install, even more to drop the weight more than a Size Zero model before a fashion shoot, insurance and MoT issues if you want to drive it to the track and all for 115-120 bhp at an ear numbing 10,000 rpm.

Have you considered Kart racing or buying a second hand Caterham 7 ?

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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:16 pm

I already do plenty of track days, I live about 6 miles from Castle Combe and we have various airfields used for trackdays within about 12 miles of home.

My current trackday car is my daily driver, a Tickford Ford Racing Puma running a 40 bhp shot of Nitrous Oxide.
So just over 200 bhp.
But its a very rare car to abuse on track like I do, most aren't even daily drivers.
Image
Image
I already own the Stiletto , its RWD and stripped out as I have been rebuilding it.

Just asking for a decent engine and some fun , plus I will cry a lot less if I bend it than the Puma.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by SuperSport » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:29 pm

Looked at pic, which one of the three by the car are you ?? (well someone had to ask ! :lol:

If you are looking for some thought food - how about a Subaru flat four mated to a VW transaxle (mechanical side of this is already established practice in the Camper and Bus world).

Now a 250 brake Stiletto drifting..........

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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:42 pm

Lady asked if she could hold my Helmet....who was I to say no :D

I could always fit my NOS kit in the Stiletto if a decide I need more power.
Gives the Puma 39 BHP and 45Ib/ft of torque.

Cost is my limiting factor, if I find there is not enough power I will fit a more powerful bike engine :wink:
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Lars Hagermark » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:55 pm

Dogsbody wrote:Just asking for a decent engine and some fun , plus I will cry a lot less if I bend it than the Puma.
I get your point about power and fun, and agree with most of it. However, in a not very distant future the Puma will probably fetch less than a reasonably good Stiletto. If you don't bend it this year or next - after that you'd perhaps be happier to bend the Puma. :lol:
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:16 am

Lars Hagermark(DJH705) wrote:
Dogsbody wrote:Just asking for a decent engine and some fun , plus I will cry a lot less if I bend it than the Puma.
I get your point about power and fun, and agree with most of it. However, in a not very distant future the Puma will probably fetch less than a reasonably good Stiletto. If you don't bend it this year or next - after that you'd perhaps be happier to bend the Puma. :lol:
:lol:

I would hope I don't bend anything...
Just want a bit of cheap RWD and me and THIS Stiletto have history doing that going back 25 years :D
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by ben-yates » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:45 am

Dogsbody wrote: I would hope I don't bend anything...
Just want a bit of cheap RWD and me and THIS Stiletto have history doing that going back 25 years :D
I like what your doing, i dont think every imp should be returend to its original form, obviously some should but others should be able to be adapted to be a better car, and the price of a decent engine you could probs pay someone to do the conversion for you, for example twin 40s, its £1000+ to install them to an imp, a 998, there is a short block going for £850, i mean yeah you could do it cheaper but if your not chasing any regs then go for it
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:04 pm

My budget is sub £1k :shock:

So far I have the engine, 4 into 1 exhaust and engine electrics and have paid out £150
Diff will be around £300
I don't need reverse for the MOT , but my friendly MOT testing station want me to promise to push in off the ramp :lol:

Metal and fabrication cost will be zero as its up the street of my trade.
Painting will be materials only as i'm pretty good with a spray gun too. :D

My time scale is running by August, so watch this space.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by ben-yates » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:43 pm

Dogsbody wrote:My budget is sub £1k :shock:

So far I have the engine, 4 into 1 exhaust and engine electrics and have paid out £150
Diff will be around £300
I don't need reverse for the MOT , but my friendly MOT testing station want me to promise to push in off the ramp :lol:

Metal and fabrication cost will be zero as its up the street of my trade.
Painting will be materials only as i'm pretty good with a spray gun too. :D

My time scale is running by August, so watch this space.
Well good luck to you, i want a bike engined coupe so if you do give up drop me a pm :evil:
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by bks974c » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Dogsbody wrote:My budget is sub £1k :shock:

My time scale is running by August, so watch this space.
Good Luck but I'd put money on it coming in way over that, unless it what you've told the missus :wink:

Last car I put a time on was Karen's Sport said 3 weeks and took 3 years and a lot more money than planned, now it will be ready when its ready and will cost far more than its worth but there's worse things to spend your money on.

Scott
Last edited by bks974c on Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:23 pm

bks974c wrote: Good Luck but I'd put money on it coming is way over that, unless it what you've told the missus :wink:
:wink:

I would hate to add up the cost of my Progressive Nitrous oxide system in the Puma, think I said £300 :lol: maybe double of triple that ...
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by lewisparrot » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:56 pm

HI I HAVE JUST RECENTLY FITTED A ZZR 1100 ENGINE TO MY MK1 1964 IMP AND IT IS NOW ON THE ROAD TAXED AND TESTED IF YOU SEND ME YOUR EMAIL I WILL FORWARD YOU A COUPLE OF PICS AND WILL TRY AND HELP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE GOOD LUCK LEWIS MY EMAIL IS LEWISWELCH@NTLWORLD.COM
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:45 am

Just emailed you Lewis :-).
Almost identical engine to mine. The zzr is an upgrade option if 120bhp and 65ib/ft of torque isn't enough :-)
70 Sunbeam Stiletto (again)125bhp Kawasaki Ninja power.
00 Ford Racing Puma (by Tickford) with 40 bhp of Nitrous Oxide.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by bks974c » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:59 am

Lewis

I'm sure there are plenty of others that would be interested in your project if you felt like posting about it.

Scott
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by ImpManiac » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:10 am

^^ Yep. Me, for example! :mrgreen:

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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:10 pm

Diff sorted now, I can dump the rotor flex's as I have CV joints :) I'm gearing it for around 120 mph :shock:

Front suspension and steering rack dropped off today, I found the 4 bolts that go through the floor to hold the rack and rear front suspension were missing :shock: So If any one has some spare or can tell me the thread please...Or they are going metric with Nylocs :lol:

Thanks you Lewis, your ZZR1100 Imp looks sensational, had to be Green really with a Kawasaki engine :wink:
If I decide 125 BHP isn't enough thats the engine I will fit as its a direct replacement, 202 mph when it was in the bike :shock:

I picked up an oil cooler on EBay tonight, the last part required from Kawasaki.

Malcolm will be getting a call tomorrow too for some lowered uprated springs.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by basil imp » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:31 pm

I think some pics should be posted of that car :D
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Dogsbody
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:47 pm

As soon as I get the cover off it I will :wink: I don't have a garage any more so the car sits outside.
So I'm very restricted by the weather.
As I'm going the bike engine route now and non original, the vinyl roof won't be happening so I can get the glass back in soon and make it water tight :)
70 Sunbeam Stiletto (again)125bhp Kawasaki Ninja power.
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by moose » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:56 pm

threads for holding rear part of front suspension on 5/16 unf, have you considered weight distribution etc before ordering uprated imp springs if the engine and box is lighter or not loading the shell with weight in exactly the same place as the imp set up you may need different rated springs! always makes me think when i here of these bike engine conversions does it b£$%er up the handling i know that when the hewland box was tried in the imp the engine had to be movd back a couple of inches the hewland box was used so a more powerfull imp engine could be used but the project was abandoned due to the old 998 imp being faster overall due to better handling compared to the more powerful engine mounted 2 inch further back, not trying to put you off or anything but non of the bike engine posts have ever mentioned weight distribution and keeping the imps handling balanced and there are (to my knowledge) no posts on here of completed projects with feedback on the overall package.
Regards Moose
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by Dogsbody » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:40 am

Thanks for the bolt info :)

I contacted Malcolm about the springs and explained what I am doing with the engine etc.
His suggestion is what I'm using.

Almost all the weight will be inside the passenger compartment, I'm ditching the tank spare wheel, bumpers bonnet will be fibre glass.
It weight at extremities that can cause problems with handling normally.
I will be fitting adjustable dampers so I can have a play when its going :wink:
70 Sunbeam Stiletto (again)125bhp Kawasaki Ninja power.
00 Ford Racing Puma (by Tickford) with 40 bhp of Nitrous Oxide.
81 Matra Murena 2.2
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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by ImpManiac » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:10 am

^^ ... Plus you can get springs in a wide range of ratings and lengths for not much money any time you need them to adjust your setup. 8)

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Re: Sunbeam Stiletto with a Kawaski Engine.

Post by moose » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:01 pm

the thing i was trying to make you think about was the design of the imp suspension was very clever and i can see loosing weight as well as adding it or placing it in a different place on the car needs to be designed into the bike engine conversion it only took a few KG's moved rearwards on the hewland boxed car and the leverage applied to the rear trailing arms that had been carefully calculated to work in harmony with the front wishbones had been upset, we all know slightly stiffer springs polybushes and dampers that can be adjusted improve an imp but they are not a dramatic change whereas shifting the weight about will make a huge difference either way i.e. lighter or heavier, it is the positioning of this weight. for example Kwak engine and box lighter than an imp and moved forwards to the passenger compartment would mean softer springs on the rear as there is less leverage on the rear trailing arms to move the springs this would then upset the balance between front and rear and you might be out of the adjustable range for the front end, honestly not trying to put you off i am trying to help make it a success as i would like to see one in action!

regards mike
Regards Moose
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