Clan JO JASON - New Mirror indicators

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Re: Clan JO JASON - some lecky mods

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

617sqn wrote:viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18843

Andy G
Oooo yeah!

Forgot about that one. I'd even posted something about certain pull switches to avoid (cheap/bad quality). :oops:
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Re: Clan JO JASON - some lecky mods

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane wrote:Sounds complicated but very good , your as mad as me re. electrics :) :lol:
Yer but you are much neater.

You'll see when I post pictures of the hardware installed in a couple of days time! :lol:
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Re: Clan JO JASON - refit of 'improved' comp transaxle mount

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Gear change has been a bit hit or miss recently and I've been getting an annoying random rattle /knock from behind the rear firewall.

Inspection of the very old STD transaxle mounts revealed delamination in one mount plus sinkage. The sinkage in the rubber meant the transaxle had dropped such that the gear change rod had sunk towards the bottom of the central hole within cross member (but not touching). Thinking this might be the cause of the poor gear change and maybe also the cause of the random rattle/knock, I decided to bite-the-bullet and re-fit Mike's competition mounts.

Moose's Mk1 transaxle mounts...
Image

The rubber within these mounts is minimal making them very stiff but unfortunately they transmit nearly ALL of the transaxle noise into the cabin. This made input-shaft bearing rumble plus the inherent whine from straight-cut CR cogs on 3rd and 4th last time I used them, a bit wearing. A noisy cabin is OK for a single purpose competition car but mine is very much a road car atm.

:idea: So this time I decided to fit Mike's Mk1 comp mounts onto a bed of rubber in an attempt to cut down the noise transmission through the rear cross member.

A rough computer sketch of the 'faux rubber' gaskets fitted between transaxle mount and rear Cross member (gaskets coloured orange in the sketch....)
Image
A solid proper rubber pad about 1/8th inch thick would be ideal but unfortunately I had nothing like that in the garage to hand. Found a spare 'rubber' car mat about 1/16th inch thick and cut out 2 sets of gaskets. Not ideal - especially as the mat is made from a 'faux rubber plastic' (albeit relatively soft plastic ) which obviously won't be as good at insulating sound/vibrations as real rubber. Given the lack of thickness in the mat, I made 2-ply gaskets for each mount.

I also enlarged the cross member bolt holes quite a bit to ensure that the comp mount bolts don't touch the cross member. Finally I added a third 'faux rubber' gasket between the washer and the cross member.

Result. A moderately-major reduction in noise transmission - I think a set of real rubber pads would make it a step better.

Now my 70's cassette player is louder than the transmission (and exhaust) :) ! If I ever stumble across a suitable proper rubber pad I'll change the gaskets to see what's what. But I can at least now live will this level of noise.

Happily, the stiffer competition mounts have restored the gear change to probably better than new - very positive and precise! :D The comp mounts plus rubber gaskets have raised the line of the gear-change mech back into the middle of the crossmember central hole.

However the rattle /knock behind the firewall is still present - albeit less so :( .

Since found the source of the rattle ...BOTH rear Protech dampers are knocking (they are nearly new :evil: ). Discovered the knock by grabbing/pulling each drive shaft up and down with one hand on the damper body (whilst standing below the car on a lift). My GAZ ones went the same way and that's why I changed to Protech :| . Must be some poor quality valves in these dampers :? !

I'll just have to live with the damper knock unfortunately ... maybe they will quieten down when the weather gets warmer and the oil thins a bit ...who knows?
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Re: Clan JO JASON - recent REAR light changes

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Previous round rear LED lights were a bit too big a diameter for the engine cover and they were not particularly well-fitted and eventually worked loose.

So decided to go back to a more fitting shape for the Clan with regard to the rectangular nature of the STD Clan rear lights. The new lights are less than half the weight ..

I had to make new alum sheet inserts and intended to buy EXACTLY the same as the old perforated sheet but EBAY pictures FOOLED me in terms of the scale of the perforations - the new stuff has tiny holes so it almost looks like a solid sheet. Look carefully and you can see the older larger perforated sheet in the centre underneath tha CLAN badge ... the new stuff was too short to reach the centre d'oh :oops: !

These are all LED ... understandably purists will hate them regardless...sorry! :)

1. Lights OFF
Image

2.TAILS
Image

3. BRAKE: centre low level -easily seen from distance - High-level brake light in rear window is mainly visible in traffic from above (cant see it in this picture)
Image

4. DIRECTION Right - begin sequence
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5. DIRECTION Right - END sequence
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6. DIRECTION Left - begin sequence
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7. DIRECTION Left - END sequence
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8. HAZARDS - begin sequence
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9. HAZARDS - END sequence
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10. REFLECTORS below the raised (from std) bumper
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I have changed the front PODS recently too ..more later.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - recent light changes

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane »

Very smart i must say :D
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Re: Clan JO JASON - recent light changes

Post by The Nun »

Like the latest Audis but based on an old idea from the 60s when the Ford Thunderbird had the first sequential indicator lights but using separate light bulb of course, always thought it a good idea, makes you take notice more.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - recent light changes

Post by bks974c »

Nice work.

Nice and clear unlike some of the modern ones where you can't see the indicators when the brake lights are on.

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Re: Clan JO JASON - recent light changes

Post by cov_climax »

Hi Peter, hope you are well?

Putting the lights in the lid has the added advantage of fooling the rest of the population that your car is on its side - when you're roadside in the dark with engine lid up tweaking the beast. :D

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Re: Clan JO JASON - recent light changes

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

cov_climax wrote:Hi Peter, hope you are well?

Putting the lights in the lid has the added advantage of fooling the rest of the population that your car is on its side - when you're roadside in the dark with engine lid up tweaking the beast. :D

Brian

Been waiting for someone to spot the flaw in the idea!
:lol: Wonder what plod would think :o ?

Talking of health Brian- no, I'm not well atm - came down with this nasty flu bug yesterday and took to my bed.

Otherwise I'm as 'fit as a butchers dog' (but you have to imagine the vegetarian version of that). I guess you are doing well. Maybe get to a National again one day ...

Thanks for comments peeps. More bits and bobs on developments as soon as I'm fit again. :) Clan004
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Re: Clan JO JASON - recent light changes

Post by The Nun »

You could split the engine lid half and half so it opens like a book then the lights would be vertical each side when open, folk might think it was a bus in the dark then and give you more room :D
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Re: Clan JO JASON - recent light changes

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

The Nun wrote:You could split the engine lid half and half so it opens like a book then the lights would be vertical each side when open, folk might think it was a bus in the dark then and give you more room :D
Not such a bad idea :) . Save banging my head when working on it too. And i wouldn't have to put the lid down when raising it on my ramps (low garage roof)
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Re: Clan JO JASON - EVANS chat

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Copied & Pasted from Dave's readers car to prevent clogging his thread with high viscosity Evans coolant.., :lol:
moose wrote:I have never been able to make my mind up about EVANS. I prefer the idea of some pressure to pack the coolant onto the hot areas inside the engine. From all the info i have read and what i have learned is if there is the correct amount of pressure to allow the water to flow efficiently and keep it packed onto the back of the exhaust valve seats it will remove more heat and prevents localised boiling .
Yes that's more the case with water based coolant ..the pressure raises the boiling point. Evans boils at 180 C so you already have more head room than water @ 10 psi.

I do understand your point about flow and pressure ..I had the same thoughts.

In practice the main issue with Evans flow is the increased viscosity. I have tried lots of different coolant hose routings through my Laminova. At one point i had a load of right angled bends and a 3/way (central heating) valve in the 5/8th heater hose circuit. There is an additional 13L/min coolant booster pump in this circuit and it couldn't cope with so many restrictions so I had to simplify the system to recover flow.

The main EWP80 copes fine with Evans BUT it is much much more difficult to get rid of air locks from the front of the car despite using the EWP80 at full flow to push it through. The answer was to leave it overnight and try again.

In addition to this, I've had personal email from Davies Craig to say that they would expect their EWP80 to fail earlier in service using EVANS due to the higher viscosity. I've since been using Evans for a number of years in two cars that have identical EWP80 pumps. So far no sign of impending doom and it's a risk worth taking given the benefits of using Evans in an infrequently used car. BTW, DC were gob-smacked to hear that I'd been using an original spec EWP80 for 12 years. They didn't expect that kind of service life out of the original bearings and seals - they had subsequently uprated units to ceramic bearings!

The main problem with Evans is the lower Specific Heat compared to water which means you need faster flow through the entire system to compensate. Evans picks up heat very quickly but absorbs less heat per unit volume than water. The answer to this problem is to tune the system for faster flow - fortunately the EWP80 easily meets this requirement. I haven't tried it but I expect the Imp pump would not flow enough at lower revs to remove heat in traffic.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - EVANS chat

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Peter.

Yes another issue with Evans is oil temperature control - Oil at 125 C for long periods is a disaster for an Imp. Fortunately the Clan is currently running at normal temps using Evans. This winter I had to turn down the EWP80 flow because it was running too cool at 70C.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - EVANS chat

Post by 617sqn »

So, basically what we are concluding here then is that Evans can be a superior product, over and above standard water/antifreeze, but ONLY if there are significant additional modifications. Therefore more suited to an Imp specifically modified throughout for competition work ?

A bit of a tortuous route to take for the average punter with only light personalisation of his steed, me thinks. I'll stay with Bluecol and a temperature gauge ! :lol:

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Re: Clan JO JASON - EVANS chat

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

617sqn wrote:So, basically what we are concluding here then is that Evans can be a superior product, over and above standard water/antifreeze, but ONLY if there are significant additional modifications. Therefore more suited to an Imp specifically modified throughout for competition work ?

A bit of a tortuous route to take for the average punter with only light personalisation of his steed, me thinks. I'll stay with Bluecol and a temperature gauge ! :lol:

Andy G
Yes I think you are right. But that said I haven't tried it in a std Imp system and I don't know anyone who has.

Evans have got bad press because it has two essential differences in material properties compared to a water:glycol mix that, ON PAPER and IN THEORY, appears to be disadvantageous compared to PURE water and folk latch on to theoretical half truths to support their case. Namely, lower specific heat and higher viscosity. In practice, these properties can be equalised/neutralised/harnessed if you understand how.

The fire-risk thing is mainly folk making installation mistakes for use within extreme applications.

The '180C seizure' issue is folk misunderstanding/not making the link between water and oil cooling and some folk are just feckless ....the most famous example of that can be found on YouTube - a chap 'hill trailing' off road at very low speed using high revs on a dirt bike in 30+C ambient heat -he thought it would be OK with Evans at 180C! It's not meant to run 180C 'systemic' - the 180C Evans advantage is to prevent LOCAL boiling and delamination of coolant at the interface attached to combustion chambers, liners etc etc.
A personal demerit for those who thought 180C was an upper systemic limit. :wink:

I think for Evans, it would be a different story if it was less-expensive. Most folk cannot afford/don't want to do the spend to develop their cooling system to suit, or risk any loss of a premium-priced coolant. Others worry about not having spare Evans easily available for top-ups if leaks do occur on trips. Evans is re-useable which helps. When engine swapping I needed about 100ml extra Evans to account for losses when removing hoses etc. I guess less-careful mechanics will make you pay through the nose if you left it with them to do.

Some folk simply don't want to modify their classic...and why should they? That said, there are cars that have std systems quite suitable for Evans conversion (sufficient flow rate/low heat generation) and other that do not. I know folk with Lotus 912 engines that use Evans in an otherwise unmodified system with no apparent issues.

It's a shame, because one of the biggest advantages for the classic car owner that use their car infrequently is Evan's extremely low-degradation impact on cooling systems during inactivity. HGs /WRs /steel liners do not corrode and water pump seals don't stick and tear on re-start recommissioning, alloy & cast iron waterways don't corrode, heater and rad internal matrices remain in tip top condition. I think that must be why Jay Leno uses Evans in his fleet. With that many cars lying inactive -it's a big money saver in the longer term. This is a big plus for me having previously suffered a failed water pump (Lotus) and WR corrosion (Clan) due to 'storage deterioration' on more than one occasion in my classics.

For the racer, apart from tuning the cooling system to suit, there are safety issues concerning spillages - Evans is massive slippy! Track -owners /stewards don't like it. But the storage advantages of Evans applies to race cars that lie dormant too.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - EVANS chat

Post by gr88 »

Hi its me again. 8)
Sorry , I didnt realise you had to do so many changes to get Evans to work. I'll post the graph on cooling again. (why did photobucket become charge a lot for nothing ?)
Image

The problem is lack of cooling, you are only getting at most 60% cooling versus water. Old half broken cooling systems on old cars is the last place you need evans ! A neighbour put Evans in his Sunbeam Tiger with predictable results, one cooked engine covered in slime lol.

Recent news is BMW's problems with fire caused by the OE cooling system leaking onto the the manifold. No car car manufacturer uses Evans as OE standard cooling ( a few say DO NOT USE EVANS, you will lose your warranty)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... lames.html

BMW with their crook helping 'keyless' car stealing craze, have now managed to bring fire to rise insurance costs !

Fluids take the easiest route, in a engine perhaps EVANS cooling will not flow like water based coolants ? causing hot spots, who knows ? is it worth the risk ?

The next point is Evans really take the piss with pricing ! I am sure tesco/costco/aldi /liddle cheapest gycol based antifreeze at 100% no water would be just as good as Evans at not cooling your engine !

We will just have to disagree on Evans, ps nice car !
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Re: Clan JO JASON - EVANS chat

Post by RoyBlunt »

Just a (hopefully useful) bit of chemical info on this subject.

Our 'normal' antifreeze mixtures contain ethylene glycol whereas I believe (have't used it so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the Evans product is based on propylene glycol. There is quite a difference in properties between the two.

1. Ethylene glycol: Melting point* -13 degrees C, Boiling point 197 degrees C. Very toxic if ingested.

2. Propylene glycol: Melting point* -59 degrees C, Boiling point 188 degrees C. Very low toxicity if ingested (it is actually used in foodstuffs as E490).

I've put an * by the melting point as it might appear to the uninitiated that ethylene glycol wouldn't be a very good antifreeze as it freezes at -13 degrees C. However adding these glycols to water lowers the freezing/melting point of the mixture very effectively which is why it is used with water as an antifreeze. 100% ethylene glycol wouldn't be particularly effective as an antifreeze and coolant in a road car used in cold climates because of its relatively high freezing/melting point- the most you would want (for optimum antifreeze properties) is a 55:45 ethylene glycol:water mix. I can't comment on whether using 100% ethylene glycol as coolant would cause other problems but don't really see any point for normal cars.

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Re: Clan JO JASON - Cooling mods

Post by bazzateer »

Dave ' Linwood ' Lane wrote:Interesting and informative .
So now its been like this for a while do you think the reverse ram air flow a better system than standard , is this more suited to a Clan or do you think a standard imp would benefit .I see lots of development going on here.
Thanks for posting :D
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This is what I used as the basis for LNK's old set up. Once tweeked and perfected it worked really well.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - EVANS chat

Post by benwick3 »

I did use a 100% Ethylene Glycol as coolant in my original Clan as I was having problems with boiling when I started racing. With it's higher boiling point it did work. However, when the hose failed to the heater as I finished practice at Lydden Hill I can confirm that the drenching of my feet with it a 100 degrees plus was extremely painful. I fitted a larger radiator instead and went back to a normal concentration of antifreeze and water.

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Re: Clan JO JASON - EVANS chat

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

GR88... I will not try (or indeed want) to convert you. :lol:

My Journey with the EVANS:
I don't tend to take the word of others I prefer to examine practical effects for myself.
You can only get control and problem-solve effectively if you understand the problem.

So I recreated the problem by performing a simple experiment (a very simple, reproducible, experiment).

For me, the turning point in understanding followed this simple experiment which demonstrated the essential characteristic differences of EVANS compared to WATER when equal heat energy is applied to both for a set period -(followed by a cool-down phase) (see graph below).
Image
Key Observations:
    • 1. Evans heats-up MUCH quicker than water (same energy input applied) which is related to the difference in specific heat.

      2. Water proved it's an EXCELLENT heat buffer compared to EVANS. The rate of temperature rise for WATER began to plateau above 60C, thus demonstrating it's an excellent buffer of heat energy and a good insulator (common knowledge).

      3. The temperature of EVANS rose at a more linear rate compared to water and continued to rise AFTER heat was REMOVED! Evans is a poor buffer of heat compared to water and a poor insulator.
Practical considerations for WATER (as a coolant) arising because WATER is an EXCELLENT heat buffer.
Because water IS an excellent heat buffer, it releases heat VERY SLOWLY. This is the principle reason why the climate at the seaside is less extreme than inland areas. It's also the reason why, if you pass water through a radiator TOO quickly it will not efficiently release its heat. So car manufacturers tune their cooling system flow rates with the compromise set between heat pick-up and heat release. They are not inclined to fit oversized radiators for obvious reasons, -so coolant flow rates have to be specified to suit...not too fast, not too slow.
The practical limitations of EVANS as a coolant in a water-tuned system because EVANS is a POOR heat buffer.
If you replace a water-based coolant with EVANS in a MARGINAL cooling system tuned (flow-rated) for water, the temperature of EVANS will rise much quicker than water which means oil temperature will rise more quickly too. However, because EVANS is a poor buffer of heat it will release proportionally more of its heat than water at the radiator (flow-rated for water). That sounds like a 'swings and roundabout' situation where possibly there is no sum-difference between the two coolants. But there is more BAD NEWS for those doing EVANS conversions into MARGINAL cooling systems specifically tuned for water. Evans will also release more of its heat into the walls of ALL of the waterways on the way to the radiator- which means SYSTEMIC HEAT SOAK occurs more quickly compared to water. And oil temperature rises more quickly as a result.

THE SOLUTION: - Tune the cooling system to suit the characteristics of EVANS by Increasing the coolant flow rate. Increasing the flow rate of EVANS increases the transfer of heat to the radiator and increases the heat pick-up from the water jacket too. EVANS picks-up heat energy just as quickly as water but 'runs hotter' for the same energy input. Bear in mind that 'temperature' is simply a measurement of the heat released (from the coolant) transferred to the measuring device. Evans will show a higher temp (demo'd in the experiment above) because it is releasing its heat more quickly than water.
Fortunately electric water pumps are easily tuned for flow rate so are very suitable for Evans conversion.
Increasing the rad size alone is not the solution ..all you will do is create a large temperature delta between rad and water jacket with the potential for catastrophic heat/cool shock damage... particularly bad for engines with NIKASIL coated alloy liners (like the Lotus 900 engine and others -eg BMW). For the same reason, increases in flow rate needs to be gradual. Large shifts from no-flow to full-flow is not a good idea.

Oil temperature:
Folk I know who have converted to Evans have reported that oil temps are higher - and oil pressure falls proportionate to temperature increase. You therefore need to increase oil cooling when using EVANS. Increasing the coolant flow rate helps to reduce heat transfer to the oil - but as I said. EVANS will heat soak the system more quickly than water so it's sensible to increase oil cooling IF necessary. I run a Laminova. I've had to flow-rate it for EVANS too. If you run an oil radiator then optimise air flow through the rad etc.

The good points once the system is tuned to suit EVANS.
1. Quicker warm-up than the previous water-based system. Including quicker oil warm-up.
2. Predictable and reliable cooling performance.
3. No significant pressure within the system.
4. No corrosion.
5. Reduced cavitation - the Imp head tends to pit badly between No2 and No3 when using water as a coolant.
6. Excellent protection during periods of inactivity (preserves pump seals, WRs etc)
7. Re-useable
8. Exclusivity - not for cheap skates - therefore has snob appeal! :lol:

EDITED: for spelling as usual! Clan004
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

FOR DOM

1 Door cards ON.
Image
2 Door Cards and door end ( Latch)
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3 LATCH
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4 INNER Door release handle REMOVED
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5 INNER DOOR HANDLE fitting
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6 OUTER door card REMOVED.
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7 DOOR BEAM at door latch end
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8 DOOR BEAM at door HINGE end
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9 WINDOW mech - UP position
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10 WINDOW mech DOWN
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11 INNER door card with batterns for end trims
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12 INNER door card with end trims fitted
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13 OUTER door card with handle trim and ASHTRAY
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14 OUTER DOOR CARD REVERSE side (showing trim clips etc)
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by ylee coyote »

Oh my your door beam is a bit rusty! Mine must have been replaced at some time ...
On picture 8 there is a rod going to a bell crank with a Black metal pin attached ,I am assuming that is the internal lock ?
Mine is missing ....
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

ylee coyote wrote:Oh my your door beam is a bit rusty! Mine must have been replaced at some time ...
On picture 8 there is a rod going to a bell crank with a Black metal pin attached ,I am assuming that is the internal lock ?
Mine is missing ....
Yes that short black bell crank rod is the internal door lock latch. If your beams have the weld-on boss the system would be easy to reproduce. :)

This is the first time I've seen the inside of the door of this Clan tbh, and was pleasantly surprised. I expected worse as the bodywork of the car is largely unrestored apart from a respray in the late nineties by the PO.

Pictures are as requested for DOM who hasn't seen the inside of Clan doors before - he's rebuilding one atm.

I got this Clan in 2000 and have never had the door cards off. The doors haven never been restored from new so not 3 bad for a 45yo Clan.

It's not quite as bad as the photos represent. There is the usual small area of rot along the bottom edge of the beam close to the hinge post where water drips down the front of the window frame into the door. I had the same on my first Clan when that was only 7 years old. - an easy repair. All other areas are solid. The hinge post and hinges are solid but quite rusty and the hinge bushes have gone AWOL.

The main brown stuff on the main body of the beam is the dried out glue that stuck the OE full-width polythene sheet to the door beam. The polythene sheet was meant to protect the inner door card hardboard from a soaking and to direct water towards the door drain holes and away from door pocket.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by ylee coyote »

Cheers ! ,My drivers door beam is in remarkably good condition with no rust at all ,I suspect it was replaced at some time as the passenger door beam is almost exactly like yours
As my door key is not attached to the lock in any way ,I fitted central locking with the actuator acting vertically on the locking mechanism on the door latch, It would be nice to have a belt and braces ....
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

ylee coyote wrote:Cheers ! ,My drivers door beam is in remarkably good condition with no rust at all ,I suspect it was replaced at some time as the passenger door beam is almost exactly like yours
As my door key is not attached to the lock in any way ,I fitted central locking with the actuator acting vertically on the locking mechanism on the door latch, It would be nice to have a belt and braces ....
I've used one of those £5 solenoids to open the front boot with a remote fob on both Smart roadster and Clan and they are very reliable. I've been thinking about door poppers too ...ie doors actually pop open with a remote ...not just unlock.

But I haven't thought through the consequences yet ..and its low on the list of things to do...but one day it's likely I'll join you/copy you with the electric door thing.

Another thought ..I do like the idea of sliding (mechanical) windows rather than a window winder or electric window motors. I've seen a Davrian with windows operated by a vertical slider on the inner door card...but when I thought about how to apply it to the Clan, the door beam would get in the way. Now the door card is off the drivers door, I'll sit and stare at the naked door beam for a while to see if I can work out how to do it.

Maybe the slider would have to form an arc to get the window travel from top to bottom? Would save a shed load of weight ..especially if I used polycarb for the windows. :) Clan004
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by pimpdriver »

Peter
I am in the process of sorting out electric windows on my Irish Clan using the cable driven sliding system off a rover 75. I have managed to modify one to fit on the passenger side and got it to slide up and down nicely unpowered, and got it to work powered on the bench. I will be fitting them properly in the next couple of weeks and i'll take some piccies for you.

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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

pimpdriver wrote:Peter
I am in the process of sorting out electric windows on my Irish Clan using the cable driven sliding system off a rover 75. I have managed to modify one to fit on the passenger side and got it to slide up and down nicely unpowered, and got it to work powered on the bench. I will be fitting them properly in the next couple of weeks and i'll take some piccies for you.

Eric
Hello Eric - hope all is well with you. Yes piccies please. Can be sure it'll be a good solution if you are doing it! :D

It'll be an ideal time to mod the window lifts when I do the hinge bushes on the driver's door.

:? :!: Now THAT'll be another issue for me ..where to buy nylon hinge bushes?

Maybe I should try to source bronze bushes if possible? Anyone got ideas and opinions on that?

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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by 617sqn »

Could you buy a stick of nylon online and have someone machine you new ones ? Just a thought. I've bought short lengths of stuff from ebay sellers a few times over the years. Beats having to buy full lengths :D

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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

617sqn wrote:Could you buy a stick of nylon online and have someone machine you new ones ? Just a thought. I've bought short lengths of stuff from ebay sellers a few times over the years. Beats having to buy full lengths :D

Andy G
Good idea! I'd need 4 bushes for each door so machining nylon should be fairly quick and easy...and keeps it original. :)

From what I remember (the last time I replaced my 1st Clan's hinge bushes was way back in 1980), they have a 'Top hat' conformation. So the nylon rod/stick would need to be fairly large to have enough material to form the 'brim'. IIRC the 'brim' diameter is about 5/8". Do you know if there is a range of diameters available?
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Hugh L »

I believe Robin Human has made a batch of pins and bushes fairly recently.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by The Nun »

You can get nylon bar in varying grades at 16 to 20mm and right up to 300mm dia x 100 to 600mm long, you can even get it in different colours, a fetching shade of red even :)
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by 617sqn »

Where's Bobbycham when you need him ?

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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Bobbycham »

Generally , Devizes or Chippenham, or IN trouble. :lol:

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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by 617sqn »

Fire your lathe up, Bob ! Looks like an opportunity here :D

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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

617sqn wrote:Fire your lathe up, Bob ! Looks like an opportunity here :D

Andy G
Yeah! Clan Hinge kits!

I'd definitely buy a set of 8 Nylon top hat bushes and 4 stainless hinge pins. :)

I guess you should be able to sell a bit of stock to Clan Owners Club too?
Hugh L wrote:I believe Robin Human has made a batch of pins and bushes fairly recently.
Hugh:
I haven't got Robin Human's contact details to see if he has any already made kits mind you. Clan004
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by bks974c »

Robin was advertising them on Facebook, he had them made with brass or bronze bushes.

here you go

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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

bks974c wrote:Robin was advertising them on Facebook, he had them made with brass or bronze bushes.

here you go

Scott
Thanks Scott. Problem is, I can't access FB to see the post. No account.

I'd have to find another way of making contact.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by bks974c »

His user name here is tzarrobin, search members and email him.

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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

bks974c wrote:His user name here is tzarrobin, search members and email him.

Scott
Email sent ..cheers. :D
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

No response from Robin as yet, so if anyone wants to make a set or two hinge kits for the the Clan, then I'm game. :)
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by tzarrobin »

Lotus e Clan I have sent you a PM.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Thanks Robin.

Have Pm'd with reply...will buy. :D
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Re: Clan JO JASON - DOOR PICS for DOM

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Door hinges replaced with Robin's SS pins / oil-lite bushes and door driver's beam refurbished.

Good points:
Extra sheet metal reinforcement into the door beams has restored the side impact protection - probably better than new.... albeit with an additional weight penalty.
Door shuts nicely without having to manually lift the door onto it's latch. :D

Bad point:
The old dropped hinges allowed the door to drop when fully opened thus clearing the underside of the 4 post lift where the Clan is stored.
With new hinges the door window frame now continues to rise and hits the underside of the lift which means I have to raise the lifts slightly before I can fully open the Clan's doors! :(

No new pictures but here's an old 2010 Anglesey Track night photo directly dragged and dropped from a laptop folder to test the new forum feature:
6027030856_410437658f_o.jpg

It works! :lol:
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Re: Clan JO JASON - rear spring swap cock-up

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

Got the Clan on the ramps to swap out the 360 lbin uprated rear springs for the std Clan's std 260 lbin springs - but failed to account for the MUCH longer damper travel required for the longer std Clan springs! :oops:

I forgot that I'd bought bespoke length Protech dampers to match the shorter 360 lbin TR2/6 springs....there was no way the short dampers would work with the std spring! :|

On a positive note, the pool of gearbox oil that appeared on the garage floor after temporarily fitting the longer std rear spring to one side on full droop, served to remind me that std Clan springs with long dampers on the rear cause quite LARGE changes in drive shaft angle during corners and over yumps.

The good thing about the uprated shorter 360 springs is that the drive shafts are restricted to a more horizontal position for most of the time which good for longer doughnut and u/j life and probably means less oil loss from the tranny!

I also forgot that the extended flat-floor panels I'd fitted under the rear suspension arms will only accommodate the shorter suspension travel. :roll:

So the short 360's stay on the rear for the time-being ... :)

I'll just have to lower my tyre pressures to make them feel a bit more comfortable ...Clan004
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Re: Clan JO JASON - rear spring swap cock-up

Post by 617sqn »

Could you have shorter, softer springs and dampers fitted ? Just asking.... I don't know if it's possible even. 🤔

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Re: Clan JO JASON - rear spring swap cock-up

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

617sqn wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:58 pm Could you have shorter, softer springs and dampers fitted ? Just asking.... I don't know if it's possible even. 🤔

Andy G
Yes you could, but they would bottom-out on the bump-stops giving a sudden change in attitude ..which means you'd lose it mid-corner on full roll if you hit a bump especially. :(

The short stiff springs don't bottom out so no surprises - but they can still throw you out a bit on very bumpy roads at speed! :o Clan004
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Re: Clan JO JASON - Canems Ignition map(s) for Ryan

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

OK ..not all about Canems :lol: ..this first tuning post is about settings for twin DHLA 40s for either an 875 Sport or a 1040 race spec engine.

I've recently been asked which twin 40 DHLA jet settings I use for a Sport cammed Imp engine, so I thought it would be a good idea to post jetting and ignition map settings for both Sport and Competition R Series cams where everyone can easily find it ...

Twin 40 DHLA with a Sport Cam Sport head, 875cc
  • Chokes 30 mm
    Emulsion tube No 10
    Mains 112 or 115
    Airs 155 or 165
    Idle 45 or 50 IF you have an emission type DHLA
    No 1 Idle holder
    Pump jets 33
For a hotter engine ...based upon Pete Richard's race Clan set-up (998 BVH R22) on twin WEBER 40's...., here is my variation on his for the equivalent twin 40 DHLA's (1040 BVH GB72)

Twin 40 DHLA spec for R series Cam (eg R20, R21, R22 or a even a GB72)
  • Chokes 30 mm
    Emulsion tube No 6
    Mains 115
    Airs 165
    Idle 45 or 50 IF you have an emission type DHLA
    No 1 Idle holder
    Pump jets 33
I'm currently running an 875 Sport on twin DHLAs using the first jetting list above (for a Sport cam) using 112 mains and 155 Airs but you might try the 115 mains with 165 AIR on a 998 sport. Either way you want a No 10 emulsion for a Sport cam. I have tried both No 6 and No 7 emulsions on a sport cam and they give the wrong fuel distribution for the cam.

I run my big valve 1040 with a GB72 race cam on the second set of settings - you can see that the only really significant difference is the emulsion tube (No6).

Notes on choke size.

The above setting are inextricably linked to 30 mm chokes. If you use 32 mm chokes you will have less bottom-end and less mid-range torque. Also the jets will have to be bigger (eg 118 to 120 mains) to match the bigger choke size. Moreover, whilst 998 or 1040 race cammed engines will, without doubt, suddenly fly above 5000 rpm on 32 mm chokes, an 875 cc Sport definitely won't, and it won't work well at all below 3500 rpm either. ie stick to 30 mm chokes for driveability throughout the useful rev range if using either set-up.
Notes on air temperatures:
On both the 875 Sport and 1040 GB72 set-ups I run my DHLA's using a fully enclosed DIY fibreglass plenum air box with an induction air intake tube terminated with a big cone filter on the end - pointed towards the back of the engine cover behind a grill and above the exhaust. In 15C ambient air temps this gives typical plenum air box temperatures of 30C (light throttle cruise) 20C (wide Open throttle) and 40C to 50C at idle in traffic. If you use open K&N's, or a COLD AIR positioned ram intake pipe, or live in Norway, you might have to adjust the jets a tad (enrich them).
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Re: Clan JO JASON - Canems Ignition map(s) for Ryan

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

This second tuning post IS about Canems mapped ignition :lol: .. the first map is for an 875 Sport, the second set is for a 1040 competition spec engine.

For the load settings on the y axis, the maps below uses a Throttle Position Sensor (%TPS) attached to the forward DHLA on cylinders No 3&4. The TPS plus a specific mounting bracket for DHLAs are available to buy online from Eurocarb for about £50 last time I looked.

Each set shows the map table and a 3D view of that table.

Imp Sport Map. (875 Sport head Sport Cam, Twin DHLA 40s)
...
Canem_ImpSport_v6.JPG
Canem_ImpSport_v6_3d.JPG
.
On the above Sport map you will notice that at 0% TPS (closed throttle) I have set the ignition curve to EXACTLY the same values as 100% TPS (Wide Open throttle) . The logic here is two-fold. The Sport cam likes 6 deg BTDC at 1000 rpm ... ie at idle ... so that is easily set in the equivalent 0% TPS cell at 1000 rpm
Other than idle, the only other use for the 0% TPS row is to set the ignition for the over-run at higher rpm when you back off the throttle. Now then, with this map, on the over-run, you get a LOVELY burble through the exhaust because the ignition it too retarded (in the 0% TPS cells) to burn all of the fuel before it escapes into the exhaust manifold (header) where it then gets burnt-off for comedy effect :) . The effect you get here is for fun only :wink: ! If you don't want an over run burble then you should add more advance ... ie set the 0% TPS values similar to 12% TPS row of cells.
.

Competition Map (1040cc BVH GB72 (or R series cam), Twin DHLA 40s)
...
refinedmap.jpg
Map20.jpg
..
...
On the competition map you will notice a retarded (14 deg BTDC) valley at 1500 rpm for the Closed throttle position (0% TPS). This is to let the engine itself find and settle into the optimum advance for idle. This retardation valley effectively sets the idle rpm between 1200 and 1500 rpm ..ie 1350 rpm which is where the GB72 cammed engine likes to be at tickover. You can play with the valley setting at 0% TPS to set the idle you want. In any case, the result will be a rock-steady idle!

If you want an exhaust burble on the over run (as I have done to the Sport map) then try setting the 0% TPS cells (above 2500 rpm ie above the retardation valley) to the same cell settings as 100 % TPS,

Hope that makes sense! Clan004
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Re: Clan JO JASON - Canems Ignition map(s) for Ryan

Post by OldImp »

I notice that you mention the emissions version of the DHLA. I had great difficulty getting these carbs to run until I found an obscure article explaining how they work. Apparently they self tune by returning excess fuel back via the idle jet and this means you need to fit an idle jet around twice as big as normal. I fitted a 95 and the carbs were transformed. These carbs are great on a road engine but of no use if you want high power.
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Re: Clan JO JASON - Canems Ignition map(s) for Ryan

Post by Lotus-e-Clan »

OldImp wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:22 pm I notice that you mention the emissions version of the DHLA. I had great difficulty getting these carbs to run until I found an obscure article explaining how they work. Apparently they self tune by returning excess fuel back via the idle jet and this means you need to fit an idle jet around twice as big as normal. I fitted a 95 and the carbs were transformed. These carbs are great on a road engine but of no use if you want high power.
Bob
Hello Bob

Yeah, glad I haven't got a pair of those! :o

Mind you, I think there might be more than one type of emission DHLA (eg some were spec'd as OE for manufactures like Alpha Romero and Lotus). Some have 5 rather than the usual 3 progression holes and/or have very large air bleeds built into idle circuit gallery that need to be brass sleeved to reduce the air mix and therefore reduce the necessity to go overly large on idle jet size if tuning for a non-OE application.

The antithesis of emission type DHLA's exist also. My SE Lotus 912 engine has Lotus-specific DHLA's that have an additional 'power jet' to provide extra fueling on full power. These are sometimes called tri-jet carbs because they effectively have 3 main jets per carb!

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