Ginetta G15 project

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ImpManiac
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by ImpManiac »

The offer to teach you how to repair GRP sounds fair. :D That's the way I'd go because at least then you could fix it yourself in future.

IM 8)
Paul Harrison
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Just got off the phone with someone about a bootlid, agreed to buy it now just have to go collect it :D (cheers chris for passing that number on)
I agree Paul about learning to fiberglass, either way it'll get done ASAP but to a high standard!
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Nugget »

Apologies I have only just found this thread, looks like a good project you have there especially the chassis, I reckon one made out of ss of the correct gauge and professionally welded as yours will be is the way forward although there are alternatives that you probably know about, I chose to have mine repaired with mild steel and then hot metal sprayed for its corrosion protection but if I was building from scratch I would deffo go ss if I had the cash. The body on yours looks pretty good, having done mine I think that unless there is significant crash damage they are all much of a muchness in that the bodies from new were of such poor quality that you have to work every panel anyway, I took the same approach as you and had a friend who is an expert with GRP teach me the basics, I then submitted my exam piece to him (bonnet with 3 significant stress cracks especially where it had been closed on the spare wheel) he then gave me some feedback and a few more hints and then I cracked on with the rest of it to 80% completion before getting my man to help me do the final prep before paint, I found it all pretty easy really and apart from stinking out the house the first time had no issues.

As for the rear cross member I am not quite sure why you would want to make it removable, I had no issues at all fitting my engine albeit I fitted the mount after.

If you have any snags with your build let me know, I'm only an hour away from Bristol in Frome so if you need to check any details or take any measurements give me a shout.

By the way I saw your ad for the 998 engine, I'm a bit limited for funds at the moment but had it been for sale after Xmas it would have been just the job, the way you worded the ad was as if you fairly regularly have engines for sale, is this the case??
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Nugget wrote:Apologies I have only just found this thread, looks like a good project you have there especially the chassis, I reckon one made out of ss of the correct gauge and professionally welded as yours will be is the way forward although there are alternatives that you probably know about, I chose to have mine repaired with mild steel and then hot metal sprayed for its corrosion protection but if I was building from scratch I would deffo go ss if I had the cash. The body on yours looks pretty good, having done mine I think that unless there is significant crash damage they are all much of a muchness in that the bodies from new were of such poor quality that you have to work every panel anyway, I took the same approach as you and had a friend who is an expert with GRP teach me the basics, I then submitted my exam piece to him (bonnet with 3 significant stress cracks especially where it had been closed on the spare wheel) he then gave me some feedback and a few more hints and then I cracked on with the rest of it to 80% completion before getting my man to help me do the final prep before paint, I found it all pretty easy really and apart from stinking out the house the first time had no issues.

As for the rear cross member I am not quite sure why you would want to make it removable, I had no issues at all fitting my engine albeit I fitted the mount after.

If you have any snags with your build let me know, I'm only an hour away from Bristol in Frome so if you need to check any details or take any measurements give me a shout.

By the way I saw your ad for the 998 engine, I'm a bit limited for funds at the moment but had it been for sale after Xmas it would have been just the job, the way you worded the ad was as if you fairly regularly have engines for sale, is this the case??
You were at the classic car restoration show a week and a bit ago, we were in the bright blue imp a few cars infront of yours. Me and dad spent a while looking at your car and thinking how far away mine is! My car has unfortunatly had a bit of fiberglassing done in the past so i have to remove that first. Were setting up to do all the media blasting ourself which should be interesting! I may well be contacting you at some point - we sort of share a common interest with the vw scenes! (i saw your posts on brickyard) my dad and his friend build campers out of T4's and T5's.

I dont normally have engines for sale - just ive had two for sale in a few weeks of eachother. Ive had a few people interested in my engine however if it doesnt sell and youd be interested after christmas? (not forcing you!)
Is yours still an 875 sport then? Would be intersting to see your car again anyway!

Cheers Tom
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Nugget »

Did I speak to at the resto show? Lots of people did there was a fair bit of interest in the G15 apologies if I did and did'nt realise you were an Imper.

MIne is running the 875 sport engine originally fitted from new although it has been rebored +30", to be honest I would love to try a 998 in it but on the other hand the engine is running so nice and it keeps it all as was from the factory which is what I was trying to achieve but the temptation for more power is growing because the car is so capable.

The requirement to media blast is an interesting one, I didn't go this route and instead chose to take back the worst areas by hand and prepped the good areas as you would a steel body, having said that I should have taken the engine cover right back as there has been some movement under the laquer which you can see in certain light, trouble is you really can go on forever and it gets to diminishing returns after a while at which point I elected to get some paint on it ( I know where the faults are but few people spot them).

Interesting that your Dad is a dubber T3's rock especially Westies, ours is a true MPV, shop in it, sleep in it, holiday in it and commute in it, its a must have for our young family and the engine is in the right place, I would love a T4 hardtop Westy but they are ££££'s and anyway my wife has stated on more than one occasion that the camper is for life.

I might pop along to the next Bristol club meet for a chat if you are about if not I was planning to meet up at the monthly classic meet at Queens Square although I'm not sure its on anymore as I haven't seen it advertised for a month or so.
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

We didn't speak to you at the resto show, just took a few pics of your car!, cheers for the advice, hopefully sold my engine (fingers crossed as that's chassis materials and a few other bits) I'm not sure about queens square. Been there a few times - only ever went once in a classic with dads quattro, parked up next to a mk1 lotus cortina which was nice!

Hopefully off to east Anglia to pick a bootlid up on Saturday (cheers chris for passing number on!) but we have to go via Cambridge to drop a rock and roll bed off, worked it out at a round trip of 420 miles and about 8 hours or so which will be a boring way to spend a Saturday, then up early Sunday morning to do some welding for a friend, and off to Birmingham in the evening to see red hot chilli peppers, quite an eventful weekend :D
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Nugget »

Very...ahem ahem...rock n roll

jealous of you seeing the peppers, they are on my list of must see bands
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Nugget wrote:Very...ahem ahem...rock n roll

jealous of you seeing the peppers, they are on my list of must see bands
Can't wait to see them! Only bad bit is there's loads of people there! I'm used to seeing gigs with a max of 1800, the biggest gig I went to was rage against the machine (there free gig when they were Xmas number 1) and there was 40,000 people there! And if anyone likes rage, I saw Tom morello as the nightwatchman on Saturday night when he was the support for rise against :)
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Back to car related subjects!

Does anyone know where the gauges are from for the G15? im trying to find a set (or buy individual ones) that are the same as the standard items? as mine are far past it!
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Teddie2003 »

basil imp wrote:
Nugget wrote:Very...ahem ahem...rock n roll

the biggest gig I went to was rage against the machine (there free gig when they were Xmas number 1) and there was 40,000 people there!
40,000 for Rage in the Machine is good, but have to raise the figures to 120,000 for Queen, Knebworth '86 & 180,000 at 2nd Led Zepplin, Knebworth '79 for my biggest gigs.

Not sure where the gauges come from, GOC might be able to help if you e mail them

Clan006
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Teddie2003 wrote:
basil imp wrote:
Nugget wrote:Very...ahem ahem...rock n roll

the biggest gig I went to was rage against the machine (there free gig when they were Xmas number 1) and there was 40,000 people there!
40,000 for Rage in the Machine is good, but have to raise the figures to 120,000 for Queen, Knebworth '86 & 180,000 at 2nd Led Zepplin, Knebworth '79 for my biggest gigs.

Not sure where the gauges come from, GOC might be able to help if you e mail them

Clan006
Nice one! Wish I could of seen queen (well when freddy was around!) but he died 2 months after I was born
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Teddie2003 »

basil imp wrote:
Nugget wrote:Very...ahem ahem...rock n roll

the biggest gig I went to was rage against the machine (there free gig when they were Xmas number 1) and there was 40,000 people there!
40,000 for Rage in the Machine is good, but have to raise the figures to 120,000 for Queen, Knebworth '86 & 180,000 at 2nd Led Zepplin, Knebworth '79 for my biggest gigs.

Not sure where the gauges come from, GOC might be able to help if you e mail them

Clan006[/quote]
Nice one! Wish I could of seen queen (well when freddy was around!) but he died 2 months after I was born[/quote]


"2 months after you were born", that does make me feel older this morning. As that means I was about your age when I saw Zep, was it really that long ago & I've had my Clan for almost 21 years as well.

Queen were a really good live band, only saw them with Freddy, Queen with Paul Rogers wouldn't be the same.
Bit like seeing Yes with the Buggles singing, wasn't half as good.
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Well over the last few weeks weve got a bit more done on the G15, but havent had much time to spare. Hopefully week after xmas i will get some good time in on the car. Today we started on the chassis. After all the material was cut we had to level the bench up (cue todays favourite tool i bought, a digital level!) Anyway the chassis is well on the way now, just the front and back part to sort out! also the bootlid is the one i bought nears kings lynn (wisbech?) Also have to work out what colour i want to paint the car, the choices are Ginetta005 Ginetta003 and red (which i couldnt spot on there so ill use a red clan - Clan004 :lol: )
Anyway pics

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Re: Ginetta G15 project

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Awesomeness in stainless steel form! :o Excellent work!

IM 8)
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Well its time for yet another update on this car. Unfortunatly my pictures are a bit blurey to go along with it, hopefully ill remember to take my proper camera to the workshop next weekend. I took the car into the blasters just before christmas and got it back early january, the car is now at the fiberglassing place and yesturday was my first experiance (with assistance) of fiberglassing. Love it! Everything is going to be fiberglass from now on! Really think a clan crusader is the next car i want once this G15 is done and the imp is done. Yesturday we addressed the two cracks between the two skins on the doors (mostly where we forced them open due to the hinges being seized solid when we bought it) these were filled with a two part glue (if you like) its actually designed for use on aeroplanes when you cant get rivits there (in other words its rediculously strong!) once this was done we began to fill in the door tops, strengthening it up where the window frams sit (as they had rotted out and the holes were larger than they were meant to be) so we taped the two doors together (so that where the window frame sits is facing down) and put masking tape over the face we were glassing up to, then brushed resin inside, pushed the wet glass into place and stippled all the air out of it, all in all it looks great - however i didnt get any pictures of this.
The next task. Where there were a few holes drilled over the years on the bulkhead and the parcel shelf these were to be redrilled (as there were two sets of holes for the header tank and im not using a rectifier) also the holes where the rear shocks come through were glassed over - as its going coil overs all round. At this point Rob left it to me to glass in the rear :o we had already decided just to glass the whole rear in so that it was all equal. Really pleased with the results :D
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Only bad bit was that i pulled off a part of the previously bodged repairs behind the rear wheel arch and this shows you what one of my jobs is to do next weekend!
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Only two things - the resin already had pigment in it as it was left overs from a job hence its yellow - oh and the small matter (that we new before) is that my car had a small accident at some point and has resulted in the front end being replaced (and the bonnet) this to me doesnt matter as i prefer the late front end but i dont like the later door handles as much! As normal comments appreciated and critisms accepted but more than likely rejected :lol:
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by bks974c »

Image

Although too late now to change, from experience of working on the gear linkage and handbrake on a G15, I would have looked at positioning the forward
members slightly further apart assuming it did not effect the mounting of the body.

These parts and probably the brake lines etc were probably mounted on the body before fitting to the chassis, if that was the case doing the same it might make the rebuild a lot easier.

Scott
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Good point! most of the brake lines are still attatched to the body (as we were in a rush to get it into the blasters due to them being shut for a bit) I was just going to bolt them back to the body and put the body back on the chassis. Hopefully it will all be ok!
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by ImpManiac »

That's looking very good. :D Glassfibre is something that is completely new to me, so I am watching this with interest. Fabrication of your chassis also fascinates me.

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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Nugget »

Looking mighty good, loving the stainless chassis, as you know having taken the car apart the tunnel area is very tight on space and I actually found routing everything along the center of mine the most fiddley part of the rebuild, however as you probably know the inner and outer rails are the mounting points for the seats so unless you plan to do something with spacer plates you are pretty much stuck with them as standard assuming you are using standard seats, and most of the fiddleyness is due to the size of the tunnel and not the gap between the rails.

I'm glad you are enjoying working with GRP, I really enjoyed it and found it pretty easy, long board sanding the doors and sills and filling all the minor imperfections was the hard bit. There is of course the added bonus with GRP which is that accidents aside the car should always look just like it did when you finish it and you won't be annoyed by he niggle of rust bubbles a couple of years after you finished your rebuild which given my experience of rust coming back through on my VW Camper is one reason why I chose a GRP resto.
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

Car can't be sold yet :oops: - some parts (panels) are in a friends lock up and he's working away for a few months (end of September the earliest he will be back)
Last edited by basil imp on Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Rhosonc »

Hi
I know it's a long shot but have you sold the ginetta
Cheers
Andyy
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Darkspeed »

A quick post for anyone following this post here looking for information on the Ginetta G15 chassis.

Do not copy the chassis platform as shown in the picture of the stainless steel chassis above - there is an error with this design that would likely result in failure of the front suspension legs to chassis connection.

The front suspension legs that the towers weld to that hold the wishbones must be one piece and run from the front of the car to the middle chassis section cross member - They are formed with the kick up at arund 5 degrees for castor by cutting out a section in three sides and a single weld to form the closure. This maintains the beam strength. Connection into the three piece front cross member of the chassis closes and strengthens that join.

The chassis above would have the front legs just welded to the front of the cross beam which just acts as a hinge creating a great deal of flexing of the joint. It puts the side wall of the front tube in compression tension and torsion and it will not last

Feel free to cut a tube and insert and tube at right angles and weld it up and compare its beam strength to a straight tube welded or un-welded.

The Cottage Classics Ginetta Heritage Race chassis I have just been working on was constructed in the same manner and had bent the chassis at that point. This before even being used on the road. The chassis design is so weak mounting the engine and box pulled the rear legs down 20mm and hogged the centre section. Explained why the door were easier to open when we took the engine out !

If you copy a G15 chassis - copy it exactly - if you build to improve a G15 chassis make sure you or the person doing the works know what they are doing.

Cheers

Andrew
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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by basil imp »

So some 7 years after I first had the pleasure (or maybe it’s displeasure?) of owning this car and it’s coming back into my hands again. I sold the car to a friend who then chopped a hole in the floor (thankfully on the easier part to replace) to fit a bike engine, he has sadly been busy for the last 6 years or so after doing this and hasn’t done anymore on it (realistically 1/2 a days work in total in 6 years, almost a record!). I’ve got the car coming back to me in the next week or so, and there isn’t much of a plan as of yet, realistically probably sell it again (unless there’s a sudden change of heart once I get it back!)

I’ve never applied for the logbook to it so will have to do that first, and as it’s been off the road since 1979 I can imagine that’s a pain... he still has a lot of the parts for it, so it’s a complete body shell with doors/boot/engine lid, will try and re hang the engine lid and doors when it’s back just as a trial.

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Re: Ginetta G15 project

Post by Darkspeed »

As well as the flawed design of the chassis attempted take note from the builder of the stainless chassis that you posted a link to. There is good reason that people who know do not ever use stainless for chassis.

"trees was correct in this post about stainless work hardening.

I had Poncho edit the first post in this thread to state not to use stainless on a driver chassis.

I've worked with it for 35 years and had not actually seen this until a fellow brought me a piece from his steam carpet cleaner that the stainless had cracked thru a piece of sheet metal, thru the weld and then cracked right thru a tube that the sheet metal part was welded to. The weld did not fail, but the two different materials, sheet and tube did.

The welds are not the issue, but the material itself getting hard and brittle.

I will be building a new chassis later from steel and possibly getting it powder coated.

Thanks to all that took the time to read this thread and all the positive comments. (and the warnings)"
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
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