Meltdown Motorsport - In the bleak midwinter

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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:46 pm

Bummer. :?

You must admit it was a good attempt though! :lol:
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by ChrisBenoy » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:05 pm

benwick3 wrote:Heres one for the theorists.

My first attempt at dry sumping used the centre tapping as the feed into the block from the pressure side of the pump. Result was failure of No 3 big end bearing due we believed to the restriction inthe size of the oil gallery. System was modified to feed into the gallery via the oil filter gallery as normal. = problem solved.

By the way Chris I think you've got your crank the wrong way round. No 1 big end is nearest the oil pump.

Pete Richards
You are right, the diagram is the wrong way round, although as it happens it makes little difference to the point of it. Might have to modify it in a bit or have my inaccuracy consigned to the internet forever.

Its interesting to know about the restriction in the oil gallery, that may well effect many of the ideas I have in the future so its nice to find it out the easy way. I always believe in not repeting problems others have had if possible.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by stuartbrownsey » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:09 pm

I've considerd putting restrictors in the feed holes to the outer mains, I'd bet a 25% restriction
would be fine. In turn it should increase the flow to the centre bearing. I also think its possible to
drill a hole from the radial groove straight into the main oil gallary giving a slightly better
passage for the oil. It could all be pye in the sky so I'd better try it on my own engine first !!


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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:25 pm

stuartbrownsey wrote:I've considerd putting restrictors in the feed holes to the outer mains, I'd bet a 25% restriction
would be fine. In turn it should increase the flow to the centre bearing. I also think its possible to
drill a hole from the radial groove straight into the main oil gallary giving a slightly better
passage for the oil. It could all be pye in the sky so I'd better try it on my own engine first !!


Stuart
Please do it. It's about time someone nailed the No 3 BE issue for good. Hero status would be well-deserved. 8)
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by Meltdown » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:42 pm

My, that was a lot to read and digest today!

I've had a lengthy discussion with Stuart today (thank you) where he went into great detail about various solutions. I'm satisfied that the plate is a well-proven concept (began by Andy Chesman and continued in one shape or another by both Stuart and Ben Boult) which has been successfully used by many. I've a lot to think about and still haven't fully stripped the engine - who knows, I might find a large chunk of swarf in a gallery that was there from before or some such issue.

Regarding cross-drilling the crank (and with thanks to Chris for his excellent tutorial) how does the oil cope with surpassing centrifugal force created by the spinning crank?
Instead of restricting galleries 1 and 4, would widening the centre gallery be just as effective and easier?
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by james » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:28 pm

stuartbrownsey wrote:I've considerd putting restrictors in the feed holes to the outer mains, I'd bet a 25% restriction would be fine. In turn it should increase the flow to the centre bearing.
Assuming that the main gallery along the block isn't a huge restriction - IIRC it's a fair size, and No 4 doesn't suffer with lack of oil as you'd expect if it were the gallery at fault - I doubt that will work as intended. The oil pump has spare capacity most of the time (idle excepted), as evidenced by the amount returned to the sump from the bypass. As such, it's not so much the outer mains 'stealing' oil from the centre, as the feed to the centre just not being man enough for the job. The restrictors wouldn't increase the oil pressure that you see either, for just the same reasons.

I'm tempted to suggest that this would make Nos. 1 and 4 more susceptible to damage, while not improving the prospects for 2 and 3.
stuartbrownsey wrote:I also think its possible to drill a hole from the radial groove straight into the main oil gallary giving a slightly better passage for the oil.
That seems like a possible improvment, and it certainly can't hurt.

Essex V6 engines are prone to BE failure, and the cranks for those are routinely 'tear-dropped' - where the main and BE oiling holes are elongated to improve oil flow. Enlarging the drilling in the crank between the centre main and the BEs - together with improved flow to the main - might also help. However, take it too far and the crank will be weakened.

I also have a suggestion as to why it's often no3 that fails - the failure is more likely to happen under acceleration, and the G-force will tend to reduce flow to no3 while improving that to no2. If the feed is marginal to start with, you could end up with no3 failing but no2 being fine. How big this effect might be - and indeed what sort of pressures the BEs are seeing - I don't know. Anyone want to fit an RF pressure sensor to their crankshaft? :lol:
Meltdown wrote:Instead of restricting galleries 1 and 4, would widening the centre gallery be just as effective and easier?
As I've said above, I'm not sure that restricting the galleries to the outer mains will help, but improving the feed to the centre can only help.
Meltdown wrote: Regarding cross-drilling the crank (and with thanks to Chris for his excellent tutorial) how does the oil cope with surpassing centrifugal force created by the spinning crank
http://theamcforum.com/forum/crankshaft ... 27734.html

^Having read that I'm not convinced about cross-drilling - although the stroke of the Imp engine is smaller than most that the centrifugal forces will be much smaller. But then it revs harder than most.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by ChrisBenoy » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:54 pm

There is someone in the HSCC HRSR championship that is in the process of having some 5 bearing blocks cast I believe in conjunction with one of the imp engine builders. It will be interesting to see how well this sorts out oil starvation issues. Presumably pretty well you would think.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by Meltdown » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:32 pm

ChrisBenoy wrote:There is someone in the HSCC HRSR championship that is in the process of having some 5 bearing blocks cast I believe in conjunction with one of the imp engine builders. It will be interesting to see how well this sorts out oil starvation issues. Presumably pretty well you would think.
IIRC from one that Ian Carter built there are tubes that supply oil to the extra bearings.
james wrote:
http://theamcforum.com/forum/crankshaft ... 27734.html

^Having read that I'm not convinced about cross-drilling - although the stroke of the Imp engine is smaller than most that the centrifugal forces will be much smaller. But then it revs harder than most.
Interesting article. I only threw the centrifugal idea in from a random thought, didn't appreciate that it's been widely debated :o

Ok next thought: It's been mentioned above that there's an untapped oil supply from downstream of the pressure relief valve. How much pressure is it under if at all beyond gravity? Could this be utilised in some way to feed the big ends?
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by benwick3 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:24 pm

ChrisBenoy wrote:There is someone in the HSCC HRSR championship that is in the process of having some 5 bearing blocks cast I believe in conjunction with one of the imp engine builders. It will be interesting to see how well this sorts out oil starvation issues. Presumably pretty well you would think.
I wonder if that's the Imp blocks I was told about that are being cast only a few miles from me?

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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Come in number three your time is

Post by ChrisBenoy » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:29 pm

I'd be suprised if there were more than one lot of imp blocks being newly cast? so almost certainly. I don't know how much it costs but it can't be cheap.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Time to strip (snigger)

Post by Meltdown » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:06 pm

Engine's out and on the bench. The head, valves and no3 piston have thankfully survived so just need a good clean up. Interesting to see that chamber no1 is a little more coked than the others. Number 3 big end is of course mullered as is it's crank journal, the other big end bearings show signs of wear but nowhere near to the same extent as does the centre main bearing, probably caused more by the metal now floating around thanks to no3... Big ends and mains are standard size, these shells bear Rootes part numbers so I'm presuming they are not race bearings :o
Piccies below, see what you think.
I'm struggling to undo the pulley bolt - should have done it whilst in the car :roll: Words of wisdom appreciated here, please.

Image

From left to right, no3 piston, no3 be bearing, no2 be bearing & cap, centre main.

Image

Image

And the rod from no3:-

Image
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Time to strip (snigger)

Post by Meltdown » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:09 pm

Should explain, the numbers stamped on the rods and caps do not correspond with the cylinders...just hope the pistons are honed for the right cylinders.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Time to strip (snigger)

Post by Dave ' Linwood ' Lane » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:29 pm

Meltdown wrote:Should explain, the numbers stamped on the rods and caps do not correspond with the cylinders...just hope the pistons are honed for the right cylinders.
Thats not so great then , rod looks cooked as does the crank :roll:
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Time to strip (snigger)

Post by Mike Hanna » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:55 pm

Hi Nick. Looks to me like debris from the main bearing going caused the big end damage. You need to unplug all the engine oil ways to see what is in them and rod them through. When my engine blew up due to surge the main bearing was fine. Yours looks more like foreign matter damage from what I can see. Mike
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Time to strip (snigger)

Post by colin rooney » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:42 pm

Looking at your rod bolts are they 5/16 or bigger ,and it may just be the picture but the rod looks twisted at the small end


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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Time to strip (snigger)

Post by Meltdown » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:51 pm

colin rooney wrote:Looking at your rod bolts are they 5/16 or bigger ,and it may just be the picture but the rod looks twisted at the small end


col
Might be the picture, it's very highly polished with poor light, small aperture and no tripod but I'll check. It's only good as a paperweight now anyway.
Mike Hanna wrote:Hi Nick. Looks to me like debris from the main bearing going caused the big end damage. You need to unplug all the engine oil ways to see what is in them and rod them through. When my engine blew up due to surge the main bearing was fine. Yours looks more like foreign matter damage from what I can see. Mike
The oil glistens with debris so everything needs cleaning. The remaining be bearings look like the one you can see and that main, so I'm thinking the wear is more likely caused by no3 going awol with the mucky oil being splashed around the crankcase. I'll inspect the cam bearings tomorrow hoping that will tell me more, plus I need to get the crank out to inspect the oilways.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Time to strip (snigger)

Post by Meltdown » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:00 pm

The crank pulley was SOOOO tight I resorted to bracing the crank as best I could and using my mega big torque wrench (goes up to around 500lbft :shock: ). Have taken advantage of the last of the summer sun ( :roll: ) to paint the sump (didn't have time before Donington). All three mains are similarly worn, bores still showing their honing marks and pistons/rings ok. Now that I've lunched I'll inspect the oilways.

Tonight we have roast beef - topside reduced from £14something to what should have been £12something but wrongly marked as £2something :D
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by Meltdown » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:59 pm

Camshaft bearings show slight wear not quite to same extent as bottom end. Little ends fine. All oil galleries spotless so far as I can see, plugs for mains 1 and 3 won't budge though. I don't want muck sitting in these blind alleys waiting to appear in its own good time so I need help to get them out. The valve clearances need altering but that's to be expected after a fresh build, all valves seal well. The crank has not been cross-drilled.

So it's an open verdict I'm afraid. There have been several mooted causes, namely oil temperature and/or pressure (it's been running at about 55 and I've read in several places that this might be on the low side), oil frothing (possibly caused by heat exchanger design), oil type (have heard that Valvoline ain't what it used to be as more detergent is added now which is apparently not so good for high revs, fine for the road), lengthy plumbing for oil through heat exchanger then cooler (not high on my personal list of suspects...both are mounted in the engine bay and many have put a cooler up front without problem), tolerance for be no3 too small or big on fitment, or quite simply muck getting the better of the poor abused bearing. Take your pick.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:13 am

I'd say you are running a tad rich and maybe the piston deck height is a tad lower on No1 because the squish areas are quite carbonated. I recall your main jets went up to 120 from 115 so I'd guess maybe your RR man targets a lower AFR than me for full power/ full torque.

Image

I haven't got a carbonated combustion chamber shot handy but they are similar to the piston carbon pattern above with clean peripheral squish areas feathered from brown to black toward the centre. This is running with a full power 12.8 - 13.2 AFR (dependent on air temp unfortunately, but 13 is typical). And the idle AFR was around 13.8 -14.2 prior to SS grooving (now a more stoichiometric 14.5 - 15).

Your squish areas are vastly reduced due to your gas-flowed combustion chamber shape compared to mine but yours are not too dissimilar to Pete Richards' in shape and his carbonated pistons show cleaner squish areas with brown to black feathered carbon pattern IIRC. I guess at some stage you'll get to know what deck height and comp ratio you have when you rebuild.

At the risk of you being at the end of your tether over speculative comments (but the forum attaracts) :lol: ...the main bearing looks to me like there has been widespread oil film breakdown / metal on metal contact rather than debris from the gallery, but hard to say given limitations of the photo. I assume the BSK was machined specifically for that block and not fitted second hand without machining? Also you said the shells were possibly non-competition items? Also cam runs half speed so effects of oil film breakdown will be less. Of course the mains damage could have happened on the starter like Mike H suggested, if the bearings were dry with knock-on effects.

Like you say, I guess you'll never know the true cause which is a worry. I'd be inclined to supervise the rebuild very carefully.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by bks974c » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:53 am

Lotus-e-Clan wrote: ...the main bearing looks to me like there has been widespread oil film breakdown / metal on metal contact rather than debris from the gallery, but hard to say given limitations of the photo. Also you said the shells were possibly non-competition items?
Whatever the original cause of BE 3 once the destruction of the bearing (at least half the material must be missing) all the particles start circulating in the oil and start rapidly wear the other bearing surfaces. The original bearings I understand are lead/bronze same as the comp bearings rather than Aluminium bearing surface, some of the debris gets impregnated into the bearing material which is good in minute amounts but in large quantities :twisted:

IMHO the wear is inline with what would be expected from a single big end failure, having seen first hand similar results.

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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:07 pm

Except the oil filter should stop the debris reaching the mains cos there is no back flow from the damaged BE. For sure crankcase debris knackers the pump and the pressure may drop which adds to the fate of the mains at high revs but all of the oil should be filtered before it gets back to the mains. But that's in my limited experience and Mr Hanna seems to have had a similar outcome. And of course we will never know how hot the oil got which may be a complicating actor.

If, as Mike Hanna says, it was a spare engine having sat long enough for the bearings to dry out then a re-start with an empty filter and cooling circuit is probably going to have some negative effect on all bearing surfaces.

It's all a bit academic (which is OK, cos it keeps a forum alive) and these cases, in the final analysis, just tend to re-enforce personal belief systems (inc my own :lol: ) and personal experience in the absence of definitive evidence. :|
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by bks974c » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:57 pm

Peter

Good point about the oil filter, it should filter the oil especially as the debris is quite large and so easily caught :?

Question -how quickly does the filter block before the bypass valve kicks in and circulates unfiltered oil

Will dig out my engine and take some photos.

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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by Meltdown » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:21 pm

I haven't as yet removed the filter from the cannister (just taken it off of the block) but I'm sure it will be loaded with metal.
Ben Boult has a decent crank for me (Tim, thanks for the offer but he can pop it on vee blocks and check that it's straight) and I've been advised by two people now that standard con-rods wil suffice for now as long as there's no sharp edges and are chamfered enough for the arp bolts. I need oil and bearings, a temp gauge & sender, re-plumb the heat exchanger to cooler water ie after the front rad, duct the cooler and the clutch has very little material left. Plus the bits and bobs as recommended by the scrutineers. Can anyone suggest a supplier for AP clutches please?
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by GeoffFarthing » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:37 pm

It is aparent that you do not have yet a definite cause of your failure. As you have contacted Ben Boult then I would seriously consider taking your engine and debris to him as he has the know how to determine what went first and how to prevent it on the rebuild. He will tell you what you need to rebuild it and put together a good offer to supply the parts or to rebuild it for you.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:43 pm

Melty,

It's your design and each to there own, but the principle of having the oil heat exchanger in the water from the head (the top hose in your case, or bypass hose /heater circuit in my case) is a good one when you have a good water cooling system (like with a front rad)

Firstly, as you originally intended, the oil gets a quick warm up. Secondly the uncooled hot water from the head is typically no more than 95C when you are booting it and so the return oil from the Laminova will equalise to no more than 95C which is a good oil temp prior to entering the filter and main oil galleries and it's likely to arrive at the bearings at sub 95C which is Ok.

The main source of heat for the oil is the piston crowns and it takes a while for the sump oil temp to rise (well mine does 'cos of the polished and knife-edged crank and rods) . But in any case, once the oil system is heat-saturated with both the sump oil and Laminova return oil at 95C, ONLY THEN will the WATER, also @ 95C, remove excess heat from the oil.

This is the point where oil and water flows through the Laminova need to be optimised for controlled heat transfer to the water. For example, I use the heater circuit from the head and as this is NOT a mission-critical cooling circuit you can have restrictors fitted to the Laminova water core to slow the water flow down if necessary. IF you use the primary head outlet (top hose) to the rad, you don't want to mess with the flow of that too much, but in any case the excess heat from the oil will then go on to the rad which is GOOD.

The radiator works best with the greatest heat differential between air and water. So the closer the air and water temps in the rad the less heat transfer takes place. It's a good thing that the water arrives at the rad VERY hot on a warm day when the air temp is high as more heat is lost to the air IF the air flow is good (and with a front rad it should be).

Now imagine having the Laminova in the cooled water from the rad and you get: 1) a slow oil warm-up; and 2) when the oil system is heat-saturated the greater heat differential will transfer a lot of heat to the coolant. The heated coolant entering the engine now presents a REDUCED heat differential between IT and the heat in the water jacket liners and combustion chamber walls. Which will hinder critical heat transfer where and when you want it.

Of course you can slow down heat saturation by carrying a greater oil and water volume, but that's not racing light so it's a bad thing in principle. And of course overheating won't be an issue on a cool wet day except that your oil will be too cold for too long. It's all very complicated because you are playing with heat distribution between the water and oil and on the whole the load is shared so you can do clever things like consider reducing radiator size or splitting the radiator area to mange oil and water separately..but it's a matter of distributing the heat to gain a racing (and reliability advantage) I guess and there is always more than one way to skin a cat that's for sure. 8)
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by Meltdown » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:32 pm

/\/\Ha Ha, different people offering different advice, which is GOOD in that I get to see various approaches on how to skin a rabbit...NOT so good when deciding on a setup. Of course if we all knew what to do and did the same we'd have the makings of a close-racing one marque championship (hmm...).

How's about this then: Leave the laminova where it is (LeC, I'd thought things through along the same lines but nowhere near as deep as your explanation above), fit an oil temp gauge, duct the mocal cooler AND fit a thermostatically controlled fan to it, use a better quality oil.
GeoffFarthing wrote:It is aparent that you do not have yet a definite cause of your failure. As you have contacted Ben Boult then I would seriously consider taking your engine and debris to him as he has the know how to determine what went first and how to prevent it on the rebuild. He will tell you what you need to rebuild it and put together a good offer to supply the parts or to rebuild it for you.
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Love to, but time and money are against me. Whilst I've built a few road engines myself over the years successfully this will be my first race unit...I've just got to be especially careful. If it survives for a wee while then I'll treat it to a professional inspection. There was only one thing that "went", everything else was worn either by the same contributor but not to the same extent or as a result of no3 be.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine stripped, coroners report

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:17 pm

Meltdown wrote:
How's about this then: Leave the laminova where it is (LeC, I'd thought things through along the same lines but nowhere near as deep as your explanation above), fit an oil temp gauge, duct the mocal cooler AND fit a thermostatically controlled fan to it, use a better quality oil.
Sound alright. The main thing is you will KNOW the operating oil temp and can therefore: a) relax; or b) develop the system further. 8)
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild commences

Post by Meltdown » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:46 pm

Popped up to see Ben Boult today, had a good yarn and collected a freshly ground crank, bearings, new clutch plate and a few other odds'n'sods. He reckons my old crank is possibly salvageable so he's welcome to it. Spent the afternoon cleaning and prepping things, have taken the unmodified sport rods from the engine that came with HBH (having stripped it ready for a rebore as planned last year :shock: where's the time gone?), all I've done is remove any sharp edges from them and the small end bushes are in good fettle.

I've been trying to get hold of the SPA dual digtal oil temp/pressure gauge but no-one has it and SPA are waiting for new components - they won't set a date either. This would have replaced the Smiths pressure gauge in the dash but now I'll have to mount a separate temp gauge somewhere else :roll:

Baz, for photo's can I refer you to chapter B of the WSM? :D
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild commences

Post by bks974c » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:04 pm

I take it you are getting the bottom end balanced before fitting and it would be good to get the rods lightened as well.

Not trying to teach granny and all that but would hate to see it blowing up.

Scott
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild commences

Post by Meltdown » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:52 pm

bks974c wrote:I take it you are getting the bottom end balanced before fitting and it would be good to get the rods lightened as well.

Not trying to teach granny and all that but would hate to see it blowing up.

Scott
I ought to get it balanced but doubt anywhere could do it soon enough, in which case I might as well scrap Cadwell. Rods should be ok as standard with arp bolts, not ideal I know but short of spending a fortune I'm running out of time.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild commences

Post by bks974c » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:00 am

The balancing and lightening are to ensure smooth running at high revs as well as quick response to the throttle.

I would recommend you use the rev limiter to limit the revs until you have time to get the bottom end properly rebuild
safe limit 8500 :?:

At least it should save an expensive blow up and get you through the practice and race and gives you an excuse to strip the bottom end and check all is OK.

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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild commences

Post by Meltdown » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:03 am

/\/\I'll have to go with that, been phoning around and can't find anywhere that's open let alone a place that can do it today. Into the garage I go...
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild commences

Post by Meltdown » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:43 pm

After a marathon cleaning sesh the crank went in, checked the mains clearances with plastigauge and all three are spot on at 0.0015". Wiped the placcy clear and rebuilt with assembley grease, crank turns smooth as a baby's backside :D
Attention moved to the pistons & rods, finding that two of the small ends already in the rods are not quite to my liking (play...). Let me tell you that the first thing I'll turn on a lathe when I get my hands on one will be a proper stepped drift to make changing these SOOO much easier, I'm done with messing about with sockets bolts and all that, it's just not cricket. (mind you, I'd rather watch paint dry than cricket).
Eventually got things just so and then to the next issue, my 20-odd year old ring compressor has corroded through lack of use/protection so went shopping, marked price £44.99 :shock: hey ho I need it, got to the till and it chimed in at £12.99...shush :o :D
Last thing I did was grease the bores and pistons/rings then popped them in.

Next time in the continuing stoooooory of 'muppet builds a race lump' I'll connect the big ends, timing case etc, flywheel & clutch. Hopefully I'll have all the bits I need by wednesday so the head can go on then. Plan is to get everything installed and running by next weekend.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild commences

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:06 pm

You know how to tell a story and build tension! :lol:

I can't wait for the next episode. :D

I'm actually hoping you'll find you've somehow released 10 more BHP and 5 more torques than the first build. 8)
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild commences

Post by Meltdown » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:14 pm

Lotus-e-Clan wrote:You know how to tell a story and build tension! :lol:

I can't wait for the next episode. :D

I'm actually hoping you'll find you've somehow released 10 more BHP and 5 more torques than the first build. 8)
Glad to oblige :D Not sure about those increases, but as the rr sesh was done at only 95% throttle and we didn't play about with the cam timing I'm kinda hoping to crack the magic ton. Might not get time to sort the linkage pre-Cadwell but I know it's important to get it done for the big girls' course at Silverstone.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild completed

Post by Meltdown » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:38 pm

Spent a solid 12 hours in the garage today, the engine's built :D Lunch was a pizza delivered to the garage door! Couldn't find my dial gauge so the cam's timed as before :( Have found a natty way of priming the oil galleries, I've got one of those generic cable oilers from some years ago (put end of outer in rubber grommet, insert into tube, pour oil in other end and screw in a plunger to force oil between inner and outer...usually making so much mess that you give up and pop the inner into a can of oil :roll: ), have 3" of an old oil pressure gauge capillary tube plus fitting so put it into the gallery above the centre main then pump oil in. Works a treat :D

Tomorrow sees ancillaries added and instalment to the car.

Bad news is my new (few months old) laptop has died (switches on but no screen) so this missive is brought to you on my trusty old one, albeit somewhat slow...
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild completed

Post by tomcat » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:50 pm

Nick
Well done.
Hope it all works OK for you. :)
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild completed

Post by Meltdown » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:41 pm

Good news: the laptop lives :D Oddness...

Oh, I suppose you want to know about the car... :roll:
Would have got more done if I'd had my thinking cap on, priming/filling the oil cooler/heat exchanger took FOREVER :o plonked a funnel in one end of the circuit, laid the rest out to negate air locks and poured away knowing that gravity sucks...well yes it does indeed! Way too slow. About five minutes before the oil appeared at the other end I remembered the Gunsons ezibleed :roll: Would have done the job in a trice: however, there isn't a 1/2"bsp attachment so I'd have had to make one. Next time... :D Next I popped the filter in the cannister and filled it with oil up to a point where it wouldn't quite spill on fitting to the block once on the housing. So there's a wee smidge of air in there but that can't be helped short of having the engine on a mount and tilting to suit.

Then the manifold went on plus carbs. One of the thackery washers snapped pre-removal so will order some new ones, made sure that the broken one is the easiest to get to once in the car. The scrutineer wanted more throttle return springs fitted at Donington (as predicted by the chap at the rolling road) so added two more making six in all, two acting on the cable pivot block (can't think of the nomenclature, senior moment :roll: ), one torsion spring on each spindle and now a tension spring levering on each spindle.

Wheeled the assembly into the engine bay and adjoined to the transaxle, then retired for an early bath before dinner. After work tomorrow I'll connect all the bits and bobs then add the fluids, now hoping for startup tuesday followed by some road miles before the big trek to Cadwell on Friday.

Having seen the week's weather forecast I'm worrying about a wet weekend, not what I need when learning a new circuit and not having any car setup. Donington's seven laps revealed no more than a propensity to swap ends when too much throttle was applied. Visited Cadwell Park a few years ago for British Superbikes and can thoroughly recommend it for spectators, you're so much closer to the action than Silverstone or Brands Hatch with no catch fencing to get in the way. Ok so it's in the back of beyond but well worth it. Planning to get the car scrutineered when we get there so I don't have to rush about quite so much on saturday.
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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild completed

Post by benwick3 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:21 am

At some time dump the thackery washers as they will just keep failing. Replace with rubber cup washers . Requirement for throttle springs is one acting directly on each throttle shaft. Springs that form part of the linkage not acceptable. Dellorto springs as exposed are considered to be acceptable. Weber internal springs not acceptable but should be removed and thrown away as they have a tendency to brake and jam the throttle open. Not to be recommended at the Gooseneck at Cadwell as I found out early in my racing career.

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Re: Meltdown Motorsport - Engine rebuild completed

Post by ImpManiac » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm

benwick3 wrote:Weber internal springs not acceptable but should be removed and thrown away as they have a tendency to brake and jam the throttle open. Not to be recommended at the Gooseneck at Cadwell as I found out early in my racing career.
Yep. I've heard this from many different sources now and plan to remove my torsional throttle springs. They will be replaced with direct-acting springs acting on the throttle shafts.

Good luck with the test and the racing, Meltdown. I hope it goes well for you. :)

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