alloy rad

Information / Questions and Discussion -
Imps and Imp based Motorsport stuff from the olden days and current
Post Reply
roperdev
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:51 pm
Club Member: No
Car Model: hillman imp 1971 rally car
Location: saffron walden essex
Contact:

alloy rad

Post by roperdev »

I am the process of buiding period rally imp.
Can I use an alloy front rad or must it be from that period ie. copper ?
Thanks
User avatar
bazzateer
Posts: 8434
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:27 am
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: 68 Chamois Sport, 72 Imp Sport, 67 Vogue, 69 Vogue
Location: Watford and very occasionally Fareham

Re: alloy rad

Post by bazzateer »

Much depends on which championship you intend to compete in, the MSA Blue book should be able to tell you.
If I told you I was a pathological liar, would you believe me?
Barry Blackmore - Chiltern ACO, apparently.......................
User avatar
Rod
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:56 pm
Club Member: Yes
Location: Devon
Contact:

Re: alloy rad

Post by Rod »

Can you find evidence of one being used in period? Otherwise no go. You could hope no one notices!
Imp022
RallyeCallye

Member no. 8, bought first Imp 1971. Owned 7 or 8 lost count!
User avatar
Nigel Webster (anrw)
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 am
Club Member: No
Car Model: None currently

Re: alloy rad

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Having built a Chamois over the last two years to comply with and compete in UK historic stage rallying I entirely sympathize with any confusion you might have about interpretation of the regulations. The highly competitive Escort world of historic rallying constantly pushes the boundaries that are defined by the regulations. In actuality the boundaries are far from clear which makes it so difficult. It is possibly less of a problem when building an Imp because we are less likely to bid for top honours (although at the mid stage of last season in the British Historic Rally Championship Geoff Taylor had amassed enough points through class wins such that it looked like he could win the Championship - so much so that in the HRCR magazine Old Stager, there was comment about the points system being ill conceived!). Also the Imp competitors in historic stage rallying have a civilised approach to the interpretation of the rules and when faced with this the eligibility scrutineer (namely Paul Loveridge) appears to take a balanced view.

There are a number of no go areas - one is front disc brakes. These must be the track widening Vauxhall Viva system and Girling 14LF caliper, rather than the simpler, cheaper and much better Fiesta system. The Web site run by Paul Loveridge ( http://www.hrct.co.uk/vehicle-informati ... llman-imp/ ) may be useful to you. Strangely and helpfully the aluminium radiator is acceptable in the BHRC and the HRCR Historic stage rally challenge. All the Imp people I know of (and there are 6 or 7 who come out to these events regularly or occasionally) use a radiator out of a modern car - in my case Fiat Cinquecento. In fact a recent bulletin from Paul states that "The MSA allow aluminum radiators to be used under provision (R) 49.5.4" (this is reference to the MSA Blue Book and the ability to grant specific dispensation). This would not be the case if you want to compete in FIA (who do not permit aluminium radiators) events in Europe (except those like the Historic Tour of Flanders in Belgium where you can compete in a MSA compliant car if you are a competitor in the BHRC)!

If you are confused by all means make contact and i'll give you the benefit of what little I know.

By the way both Geoff and I are planning to do the Ulster Historic Rally.
Nigel Webster
User avatar
Rod
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:56 pm
Club Member: Yes
Location: Devon
Contact:

Re: alloy rad

Post by Rod »

Hi Nigel, that's me put in my place then :cry:
I've always been a little dubious about the use of disc brakes on a rally Imp prior to '68. When I was putting my first rally car together in '72/73 a works kit was available but I was under the impression that this was relatively new. It cost rather more than the entire build cost of my car so was not an option so far as I was concerned! :? Even as late as the early '80's whilst I guess Geoff, Mike and Steve Bowcock must have had discs I certainly wasn't alone in still relying on drums. Going back to 1970 or so we had a rally prepped Viva as well as a couple of Imps amongst the members of Leicester Colleges Motor Club yet no "cross fertilisation" was ever thought of.
Imp022 Imp003
RallyeCallye

Member no. 8, bought first Imp 1971. Owned 7 or 8 lost count!
User avatar
rje
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:47 pm
Club Member: No
Car Model: .

Re: alloy rad

Post by rje »

The first use of discs on an Imp on an International rally was 1965 and they were on a dual circuit system - they only used them once. Discs weren't homologated until 1/4/'70

The front radiator was homologated on 1/7/'67 (but it was a small radiator of 1.75pts capacity / export spec heater matrix) along with a larger rear radiator of 13.5pts. The factory style low-level front radiator came into use through Appendix J (1969) which stated radiators were 'free'. Body regulations said you couldn't cut the bodywork abovethe hub centre line - hence the venting of the radiator through the spare wheel well and removing the spare wheel into the passenger cabin.

As I interpret the rules - If you want to run FIA Historic (before 31/12/65) essentially you have to run to 998 Sport spec with 150CD Strombergs, drums and a works rally 'box. If you want to run FIA post-historic then you can run a full spec 998 on Webers with a works rally 'box, Viva discs and a low-line alloy front rad - most of the tuning bits being permitted under Appendix J 1969 and/or from the 1970 homologation.
Post Reply

Return to “Motorsport Forum”