British Historic Rally Championship - 2013 Update

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British Historic Rally Championship - 2013 Update

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

After a treble dose of legal advice from Sod I have sadly had to withdraw from the first round of the British Historic Rally Championship that the Imps are doing – the Bulldog Rally (this Saturday 24th March in the Welshpool / Dollgellau area of North Wales.)

Geoff Taylor and Steve Greenhill are still doing it in their Imp and the car is in good fettle. For our Imp Club friends, spectator access to the stages is good - have a look at http://www.bulldog-rally.co.uk/spectato ... nformation
I can provide more detailed information for anybody who can get along. Henry and I, Mike Dent and Keith Livesey will be at Dollgellau for the service halt between 08:30 and about 11:30 and we’ll have the coffee on for any members. Look for the Friesian Racing white Sprinter. Geoff is due in at about 10:00.

My car has had a string of issues. There are full details on it’s Facebook page (“Shammy Moo”) for those interested. Sadly despite the great support of Dennis Allt and Mike Hanna, late on Sunday night we decided to ‘pull’ the event as the root cause of our ongoing problem was still not fully evident. We plan and hope to be back on song for the Pirelli Historic Rally on Saturday 28th April in the Borders forests of Kielder etc. More anon.

Well done at Donnington to the circuit racers and particularly for Simon’s great video.
Last edited by Nigel Webster (anrw) on Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:45 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Rod »

Sorry to hear that Nigel, better luck for the Pirelli, never been to Kielder but from what I've heard over the years you'll need it! The luck that is.

Best of luck Geoff, let's see how many of those Porsches and Cortinas you can beat! Imp022
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by GURNSIMPS »

Gutted for you,what are the problems with the Imp? (I'm not on facebook)
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Sorry Neil I only mentioned Facebook because I’d written a little synopsis there about the string of issues that led to our withdrawal from the Bulldog. We have basically run out of time which is entirely self inflicted. We were aware of a misfire at the last event we did (Longmoor Stages at the end of December) but between us we had decided that it was an entirely Weber set up issue and we would resolve it at the rolling road later on. In the meantime we concentrated on getting the front suspension right (we have always run too much negative camber and far too low ride height for forest stages – you will remember how low we were at Neath Valley Stages!). The shockers were rebuilt because they had been bottoming out. We also worked through a string of developments that we had accumulated during last years events plus we had a new front loom made which involved all the dash coming out etc etc.
When we eventually got the car back on its wheels we thought we would go back to basics and run compression and cylinder leakdown tests. We found that we had an inlet valve issue on No:3 so we removed the engine and the head and found that whilst the No3 inlet valve seat was in the correct position it was obviously incorrectly fitted because it no longer mated with the valve. The conclusion was that it was not seated straight when the valve was lapped in and had since moved into its correct position in use resulting in a non airtight seal. This was duly rectified and the engine was reinstalled and ran really sweetly on the road test and on route to the rolling road.
On the first (and only!) rolling road run at 7700 rpm it started firing water out of the head between 2 and 3 plug holes. Back out with the engine and the head was then expertly welded. We got the head back last Saturday and fitted during the afternoon but it ran like a bag of old spanners. We then went through all the LT and HT ignition systems, went through the dizzy, re checked the compression, ignition and valve timing, changed plugs, coil, fuel filter, checked fuel lines, float levels etc etc. The characteristics were consistent with an air leak (revs rose when it got hot and intermittent spitting and partial backfiring) but we failed to get any reaction to WD40 or blowlamp gas fired round either the carburettor flanges (misabs) or the manifold joint gasket. We then took the carburettors and manifold off and there were no real signs of leakage past the gasket although there was a slight distortion to the manifold flange face. We reassembled the manifold and carbs this time with a light silicone coat and tightened it with steel nuts (we had previously used brass nuts) this time much tighter than we would normally do it and paying particular attention to even tightening. After this the engine ran just the same.
Late on Sunday night with the Bulldog entry fee at risk if we pass the 21:00 final cancellation cut-off we sadly pulled out of the event because we knew that the manifold needed to go on a mill to get it flat again. Everybody we have spoken too feels that the gasket should take up the imperfection which only served to raise doubts about whether this is indeed our problem. It remains to be seen but at least the time pressure is now off. In the meantime the manifold is with Dave Dorrinton of Maniflow who will face it on a mill.
If this doesn’t solve the problem I suspect I’ll be trawling this forum for more ideas.

Meanwhile we are focusing on giving Geoff all our attention to get a good result in North Wales.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by bks974c »

I would have thought if the seat was not square it would have been obvious when lapping it in as only the high part of the seat would been ground.

Also the same thing when the seat were cut :o varying width of valve seat.

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Scott

Quite agree - seems like a very fundamental error but it was before my time. Mike Hanna's take was that the seat was perhaps held off its correct position by a small fragment of aluminum which subsequently came out allowing the seat to pop down square into its recess. Hopefully this is now cured but the jury is still out on the air leak and whether the manifold machining will fix it. Mike is of the view that manifolds are often slightly distorted at the mating face but this would normally be taken up by the gasket. We'll see.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by benwick3 »

My opinion is if you think the seat has moved then it's now probably loose and is moving again. Needs replacing.

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by GURNSIMPS »

Thanks for writing all that out for me Nigel,You have the right people on the case so it should be sorted by the Pirelli,in the meantime enjoy yourself on the Bulldog,I may pop in for a cuppa if my mate will take his van out on the event.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by moose »

get yourself there Neil i will make youa brew!
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by allthingscars »

Hi sorry to hear you are not doing the event I came to look for you in llandudno at the scrutineering but arrived to late saw you on the stages the next day, great to see an imp out on the stages,I used to do a lot of servicing for a mate with an escort in the early eighties when the rallysport championship was running, always loads off imps competing back then.
Going out to watch tomorrow do you have any times of the other stages that are being used?
We will see how it goes but might make it to service.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Rod »

Well done Geoff. Class win (not difficult admittedly), 6th. in Cat 1 ahead of 2 Cortinas and a Tiger!

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Yes, Geoff had a really good day with very few problems and some good times against the 911's and Lotus Cortina's. There is a little bit of footage (wrong aspect ratio, out of focus and wobbly!) at

starting at 02:08 minutes in.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by KDHUDSON »

Posted some better quality footage here -

Enjoy. :D

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

More HD footage at



about 02:44 minutes in.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by ImpManiac »

Sounds as though congratulations to Mr. Taylor are in order! 8) Very well done indeed! I am really glad that the car held up well. She looked fabulous at the Heathrow AC meet on Monday of last week. :wink:

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by brakedisc »

Do you need a Nat A license for this?
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by johnh875 »

anrw wrote:More HD footage at



about 02:44 minutes in.
Good to see the Sunbeam Tiger at approx 3:30 also
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Yes a National A stage rally licence is needed to compete in the BHRC but there are plenty of good stage rallies possible with a National B licence.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Rod »

Most of the events in the Historic Stage Rally Challenge are National B. The challenge is restricted to Category 1 cars (pre '68) and Historic Minis and generally seems to struggle to achieve numbers. It was conceived to encourage Cat 1 cars out again and also later the Mini Challenge was added to get Minis back on the stages. It has a 1000cc class and given the fewer competitors I would think that there was every chance of an overall championship win for a competitive Imp. Why not take up the Challenge? Check it out at http://www.hrcr.co.uk

Back to the subject of licences. I was browsing through the MSA website recently and discovered that, subject to a medical, I am still eligible for an International licence 25 years after I last competed :shock: . Strange, 25 years ago I wouldn't have been.

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by Rod »

allthingscars wrote:great to see an imp out on the stages,I used to do a lot of servicing for a mate with an escort in the early eighties when the rallysport championship was running, always loads off imps competing back then.
You probably know it anyway but Malcolm Anderson, Geoff Taylor and Mike Hanna of this very forum were amongst the Imps on the Rally Sport Championship.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Bulldog Historic R

Post by johnh875 »

Forgot to say yesterday, very tidy driving & the car sounds great - and people get all worked up about BDA Escorts!
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Two Imps will be out on the Pirelli Historic Rally on Saturday 28th April. Geoff Taylor will be hoping to repeat his excellent Bulldog result and I hope that on this, my first British Historic Rally Championship round, I will be able to keep up with him! I had a string of engine issues that kept me away from competing in the Bulldog but hopefully these are now all behind us and we can show what two competitive stage rally Imps look and sound like in the forests! Thanks, by the way, to all those who helped to sort things (Dennis Allt, Mike Hanna and Mike Dent particularly). Hopefully some members might have time to have a look if only to come along to the service park in Carlisle. Geoff is determined to beat at least one Porsche 911 on this event!

The 6 stages on Saturday 28th April cover 48 miles within Kielder Forest in the Scottish / Northumberland borders. The rally is for international as well as historic cars with so far 47 historics entered of which 8 are in the true historic pre- ’68 class. Look at
http://www.pirelliinternationalrally.co ... 0Map_a.pdf
for the stage locations (all on OS Landranger maps 79,85 and 86) but note that the historics only do stage numbers 3,4,7,8,9 and 10. Assuming the rally doesn’t run late, we both start at about 07:30 and then do the first three stages returning to Carlisle Racecourse for service at about 10:20. Mike Dent (Moose) and Keith Livesey (Leadfoot) will be running service and will have tea and coffee on the go from early until about 11:30 for any Imp Club friends.

If anything changes I’ll post it here but if anybody wants specific details, they should post here, mail or PM me. Full details of the rally, history, entry lists, stage timetables etc are at:-
http://www.pirelliinternationalrally.co ... Itemid=101

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by ImpManiac »

I'd love to come and see you guys compete but it's too far from me. Nevertheless, I wish you the very best for the event. :mrgreen:

I've never spectated at a rally! :o And I call myself a petrolhead... :roll:

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by GURNSIMPS »

ImpManiac wrote:I'd love to come and see you guys compete but it's too far from me. Nevertheless, I wish you the very best for the event. :mrgreen:

I've never spectated at a rally! :o And I call myself a petrolhead... :roll:

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Go and have a look at one Paul you will love it mate. Good luck on the Pireli guys,show those porcshes the way home! :wink:
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by ImpManiac »

I shall keep an eye out near me, Neil. :D

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Paul

Not many forests near you in 'NW London'. Hopefully we can persuade you to take a trip North sometime! Geoff and I had tentatively decided not to do the Severn Valley Stages on 9th June (based in Builth Wells which isn't so far away) in order to keep ourselves (or rather our cars) in tact for the the Ulster (which is of course on public roads!). Although the lure of the Mid Wales forests may be too much to resist!
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by GURNSIMPS »

You will love the closed road rallying in Ireland Nige,I used to compete in West Cork and Wexford many Years ago,Mr Patersons pace notes with a full day of recce,the hardest part of the Rallying over there is leaving the bar early enough the Night before the Rally :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by Rod »

anrw wrote:Paul

Geoff and I had tentatively decided not to do the Severn Valley Stages on 9th June (based in Builth Wells which isn't so far away) in order to keep ourselves (or rather our cars) in tact for the the Ulster (which is of course on public roads!). Although the lure of the Mid Wales forests may be too much to resist!
Hi Nigel, I was tentatively planning to go up for the Severn Valley... hope you can make it! :(
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by Rod »

GURNSIMPS wrote:the hardest part of the Rallying over there is leaving the bar early enough the Night before the Rally :lol: :lol: :lol:
Reminds me of doing the Mewla on Eppynt in the Lada. The night before we were in a nice little group at the bar including Russell Fisher then deputy Ed of Rally Sport, his report read something along the lines of... "The Hunt/Lawson Lada was suffering from misfiring problems not helped by the co-driver having a monumental hangover...."
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

For those hoping to see and hear the Imps in the Kielder Forest on Saturday the three stages after service in Carlisle are served by public car parks. Geoff Taylor (car number 110) is due to start these stages as follows:-

Shepherdshield at 12:02
Pundershaw at 12:40
Archys Rigg at 13:07

I am due off (car number 111) one minute behind Geoff. The spectator car park maps is at:-
http://www.pirelliinternationalrally.co ... 0Map_a.pdf

We are due back at Carlisle Racecourse after the rally at 14:47.
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by ImpManiac »

All the very best for the event, Nigel and Geoff (and co-drivers). 8)

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by leadfoot »

Paul
dont forget the poor bother who ligh in all the mud and wet to keep them going and thats just to give them tea and biscuits :lol: :lol: good luck guys
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by leadfoot »

Ps Bother should read as bother
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by leadfoot »

sould read as Bu#####s
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by Rod »

Best wishes guys, you can beat some of those Porsches you know! :D
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by oneofapair »

For those who have not spectated on a Rally,.There is a Tarmac Rally being held at Brands Hatch this August following on from the succes of the last couple of years where the Chelmsford mc have organised a January event. There was a very nice imp performing on this event last Jan. A well recieved/organised event.
http://www.brandshatchstages.co.uk/
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by ImpManiac »

leadfoot wrote:Paul
dont forget the poor bother who ligh in all the mud and wet to keep them going and thats just to give them tea and biscuits :lol: :lol: good luck guys
All the service crew.
Of course. Thank you for the reminder. Good luck to the service crews, tea makers and supporters too. Team work! :mrgreen:
oneofapair wrote:For those who have not spectated on a Rally,.There is a Tarmac Rally being held at Brands Hatch this August...
That's one to keep an eye out for, then. Thank you! 8)

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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

Post by moose »



i shall let the drivers update you on the day
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Re: British Historic Rally Championship - Pirelli Historic R

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Regards Moose
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