3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christmas

Information / Questions and Discussion -
Imps and Imp based Motorsport stuff from the olden days and current
Post Reply
User avatar
Nigel Webster (anrw)
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 am
Club Member: No
Car Model: None currently

3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christmas

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

For the first time for ages there are three Imps entered in a stage rally on December 30th (Longmoor Loco Stages Rally near Liphook, Hants) and there is no historic class! Such is the interest that a piece in Motorsport News this week was headed "Imps will be stars at Longmoor". Still a long way from the Imp entry level in historic circuit racing but there are about 6 or 7 Imps that are ready to run 'today' in National stage rallies. Sadly they seldom come out together but the Longmoor event is a great step forward.

Geoff Taylor and Steve Greenhill have been campaigning their Sunbeam Imp Sport in the British Historic Rally Championship for 4 or 5 years, I plan to join them in this championship next year with my son Henry navigating. The third car in the Longmoor event will be Mike Smith, a long time Imp and stage rally driver together with navigator Keith Fellows. Mike is in his first season with the ex Simon Whitehead car.

We'd love to have members cheer us on our way but sadly Longmoor camp is heavily restricted military land and there are to be no spectators. There is however a way round it for anybody keen to come and watch - either sign on as a marshall (rally organisers are always short of marshalls - there are lots of marshall rolls that require no experience) or join us as 'service crew'. If you are interested in the latter please make contact so we can include you in the team. Turning up at Longmoor hoping to get in won't be an option because when they say 'no spectators' on military land, they mean it, and there will be a strict guarded entry, probably by armed soldiers!

Please PM me or contact me at anrw@anrw.co.uk if you would be interested in joining us at Longmoor.

The event website is at:
http://www.scmc.co.uk/?page_id=77
Nigel Webster
GURNSIMPS
Posts: 1441
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:18 pm
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: IMP SUPER//TRANSIT
Location: SOUTHWALES

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by GURNSIMPS »

Good luck to all the Imps,wish it was nearer to me I would sign on as a Marshall for the day!
Loving Imps since 1963!!
User avatar
skamanfrank
Posts: 2010
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:30 pm
Club Member: No
Car Model: 1972 Imp Super
Location: Rugby

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by skamanfrank »

Gurner, do you know anything about the Pembrey Christmas stages? Any idea on the date, was good fun when I went a couple of years ago
Cheers
Frank
leadfoot
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:57 pm
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: hillman imp spring special
Location: Darwen Lanashire
Contact:

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by leadfoot »

Hi Nigel
Good luck to you, Geoff, and Mike only wish we could have serviced for you :( but its a bit to far for us as we are in Darwen Lancashire. Maybe our services could be of use next year on the historic championship, we were due to help Geoff out in Scotland but he had to pull out, Hopeing to build a car for the stages, have a shell and a lot of the bits just need time as work away all week.
Just finished reading your article in impressions and would welcome any addvice you can give on car prep, :?:
as they say if in doubt keep your foot down,
All the best Keith. Imp011 Imp006 Imp007
moose
Posts: 2614
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:41 am
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: rally imp
Location: forton lancashire north england

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by moose »

e-mail sent re-service
Regards Moose
Century Autosport
tarace
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:37 pm
Club Member: No
Car Model: hillman imp rally Lotus Sunbeam Sunbeam 1.6 ti

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by tarace »

Hi Guys Hopefully i will get Ian Fisher to come along we have just picked up a very nice shell from Sam and hopefully that will be campained on tarmac shortly.
Looking for a cage for a saloon if any body can help
as regards the Loco on the 30th friends from Barnstable and Wales will be coming to help.
Really looking forward to this event now
moose
Posts: 2614
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:41 am
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: rally imp
Location: forton lancashire north england

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by moose »

Nigel e-mail has a fault so not been able to reply to technical info but as regards working and the rally i will book the Friday off so i need to know accom arrangements for Thursday night i will finish a 12 hour day and set off should be be at Oxford 22.20 or Longmoor area before midnight so if you are going from home i should not disturb your sleep too much happy to crash in the car or local pub to avoid waking you, or if you are overnighting it to longmoor just give me info on accom and put me in my own room so i do not wake anybody. i have to be in for a nightshift Sat night 20.00 so have all day to travel back. As regards set up we need mid of spring pan upwards to top, top should be parrallel to positive for tarmac i.e. we can lower to get desired camber, for forest we need to be mid spring pan and be able to raise ground clearance without going positive. as i say i am off Monday to Thursday a call might help i have to put the engine back into the Lotus, fit the seat mounts and a battery box and kill switch, fit a head to a 998, finish a wiring loom, work on my imp!!! the house is planned for completion 22nd Dec so i need to push the builder painters etc along but should actually would want to take a call to talk imps so call anytime usual rules apply if you get my daft answer phone message at work or in bed so call anytime day or night.

regard mike
Regards Moose
Century Autosport
User avatar
tim sears
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:21 pm
Club Member: Yes
Location: Whitehill hants

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by tim sears »

Nigel
PM sent
Tim Sears
1963 deluxe
1965 deluxe Nessa's
1967 cali Demelza's
1967 cali Rosie's
1967 cali
1968 Husky
1973 Clan
1967 Sport
1970 Super
1968 Stiletto
OldImp
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:42 pm
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: Singer Chamois
Location: Brighton

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by OldImp »

Hi Guys
Have been marshalling on this rally for a few years now so will be great to see some Imps in action. If you are coming to marshal then make certain you bring some warm clothes as it is usually very cold and there is so much going on that even getting a cup of tea can be difficult.
If you are coming to spectate you might be disappointed as moving around the stage is very difficult and last year was discouraged by the organisers.
The stage runs on the tarmac roads through the camp, the irish village and upto and around the old skid pan. Most of the roads have a good surface but are curbed so some care is needed. First thing in the morning they are usually very slippery but get much faster as the day goes on and everyone gets used to the conditions. It has many short straights joined by mainly right angle bends so should suit the imps. The stage normally is of two laps with a split or merge involved so navigators need to be on the ball. Often cars arriving at the merge together then have drag race to get to the next corner first which makes for great viewing. The event starts normally with the cars doing the first two stages at one minute intervals but then they switch to 30 seconds. This means with cars doing 2 laps as well you can end up with two, three or even more cars racing each other around the stage and with the pace getting faster and faster you end up with a great days motor sport from both in and outside the car and is one reason the entry list is always full.
Look forward to seeing you all on the day.
Bob
User avatar
Nigel Webster (anrw)
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 am
Club Member: No
Car Model: None currently

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Sadly Geoff Taylor had to withdraw his entry in the Longmoor stages yesterday due to engine problems and Mike Smith suffered a transmission failure, thought to be the differential, early on in the rally. We managed to stay in the rally with our Chamois but our brilliant service crew Mike Dent (Moose) and Robin Human (Tsarrobin) and David Werrell were kept very busy with 6 half hour services and one 1hr 20 service by a process of checking and verifying various modifications and ‘playing’ with damper settings, tyre pressures, brake bias, tracking and camber settings. We decided to do this single venue tarmac event particularly to give me the opportunity to get the final signature I need to upgrade to a National A stage rally licence. The other reason was that a tight, tarmac single venue event with short stages and regular service visits would give us the opportunity to tune brakes, suspension and steering.

We achieved all our ‘testing’ targets but in stage seven ‘Shammy Moo’ (who has his own Facebook page) decided to test us – immediately after the last chicane on the 1st to 2nd changeup, the pinchbolt holding the gearchange tube to the UJ (which replaces the flexible gearchange coupling) dropped out leaving us in the neutral position and we coasted to the side. Henry immediately leapt out, put the ‘OK’ board out and lay down in a puddle trying to poke the selector input shaft in a gear with a screwdriver through a slot in the transmission / gear selection guards. He managed to get first and we were able to complete the stage one minute before the end of the stage target time. Mike and Robin quickly solved the problem at service and we were able to complete stage 8 in a reasonable time. The other problem we had was fuel surging which we had not encountered previously – easily solved by foam filling the alloy tank which already has baffling!

Many thanks for all the Imp friends and supporters who dropped by during the day – there were no spectators due to strict military policy so they must all have been ‘marshals’! I understand that there were 180 marshals for an event that could have been run with 100 – I wonder why!

Sadly I have no photographs to publish because of a total ban on photography. However I saw plenty of sneaky mobile phones being used and there will be some from the official photographer. If any appear in the public domain (Flickr or YouTube etc) I will publish a link here.
Nigel Webster
User avatar
Nigel Webster (anrw)
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 am
Club Member: No
Car Model: None currently

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

The 'official' photographer at Longmoor has posted pictures of us at:
http://www.rallygallery.com/2011_LOCO.aspx?Page=45
There are also a few photographs of Mike Smith in the ex Simon Whitehead car that poor Mike is have problems with. We at last are beginning to get to grips with our front suspension issues (see photos) although we still have some modification to carry out to improve it further - together with a long list of other mods before the Bulldog rally in March.
Nigel Webster
bks974c
Posts: 2749
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:26 pm
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: all the above
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by bks974c »

Nigel

What are your front suspension problems and what are the solutions ?

Scott
User avatar
ImpManiac
Posts: 9348
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:48 pm
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: Singer Chamois
Location: Houghton Regis, Bedfordshire

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by ImpManiac »

^^ I was wondering too. :?

IM 8)
Paul Harrison
imp: a small demon : FIEND : a mischievous child : URCHIN
maniac: Raging with disordered intellect: affected with mania: MAD
User avatar
Nigel Webster (anrw)
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 am
Club Member: No
Car Model: None currently

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Scott and Paul

Its a long story. But when I built the car it was suggested that I convert it from high to low pivot point. We ran this for three rallies and never really got the camber right (always too much negative). You can witness this from photographs in the Motorsport part of the forum or on our blog http://www.friesianracing.co.uk We suspected also that new front RAC's have gone 'soft' on us after 3 rallies and may be a contributory factor to uneven camber and lower than expected ride height.
For Longmoor we switched back to high pivot with Monte's but this was associated with two new issues - one that the pinch bolt on the bottom of the steering column would lock up against the OS wishbone if we ever achieved maximum 'bump' (we figured that at Longmoor being a fairly flat tarmac event this would not be a problem) and two, that the track rod ends were hitting the wishbones both sides on full lock! Both of these would be quite spooky on a full on forest stage! I now wonder if there are various aftermarket designs of Fiesta rod ends and mine (FAI) are slightly deeper than others. I've just ordered some QH ones to check this theory out. Does this ring any bells with anyone? As for the pinch bolt issue it may be that we have to fit a bumpstop to stop the spring over compressing. In any event the front Koni's have gone off (weak stroke on one and I've lost adjustment on the other) and they are going back to Sportsline for a rebuild. I suspect this was caused by the shockers reaching maximum compression before the spring binds up (and the Cambrian was rough!). I'm now also having some springs made to the standard RAC spec so I can rely on the quality.

You can see from the Longmoor pictures that the front looks fairly well planted with high pivot so hopefully when I switch back to RAC's for the first round of the BHRC (the Bulldog) in March, we can get a bit more ride height (than the extra 1/2" that RAC's give) yet keep the loaded car sitting at about 1/2 degree negative or slightly less in forest trim.

Any further thoughts?
Nigel Webster
bks974c
Posts: 2749
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:26 pm
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: all the above
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by bks974c »

Nigel

When you changed back to high pivot did you change back to the original wishbones ?

Have you lowered the steering column ?

Have the stub arms been modified ?

Scott
User avatar
Nigel Webster (anrw)
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 am
Club Member: No
Car Model: None currently

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by Nigel Webster (anrw) »

Scott

I had a pair of wishbones (which were already strengthened and better than the originals) that I had believed to be the early type which I put on the car when I switched it back to high pivot. The difference between early and late wishbones is very small (3mm in length) so I may have this wrong - I'll check it tomorrow but apart from the minute effect on camber do you think it might be responsible for my problems if they turn out to be the later wishbones?

The steering column has been lowered slightly.

I was keen not to go for modified stub axle carriers initially (they can always be modified as a last resort) so I have standard ones fitted.
Nigel Webster
eebiegeebie
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:20 am
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: Singer Chamois Sport
Location: Sheffield + North Notts AC

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by eebiegeebie »

If you still have the early type steering arms (from the original high pivot suspension set up), there can be clearance problems between the track rod and wishbone when using Fiesta ball joints. However, if you use the later type steering arms, these give more clearance. You can tell which type you have by the shape of the platform through which the tapered part of the ball joint fits. Difficult to describe in words, but the early type is wider on the bottom than the top, and vice-versa for the later type. I think the length of the arm is identical, but the height of the platform is subtly different. Hope that helps!

John.
John Hall
bks974c
Posts: 2749
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:26 pm
Club Member: Yes
Car Model: all the above
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by bks974c »

Nigel

A number of small changes can have a significant change when added together. I'd check the early and late wishbones side by side as I think there was a difference in the pivot mounting as well, what the impact would be I'm not sure.

I have an unmodified '66 Chamois that I can check as reference if you have an questions.

The lowered column brings the pinch bolt closer to the wishbone as the rack is rotated to keep them aligned, I don't think it makes any difference if its the early or late wishbones but using the high pivot mountings will have moved the wishbone up relative to the floor/column. If its the threaded part of the bolt catching - cut the end off or use a shorter bolt, Or relieve the wishbone. Final solution would be to remove some of the lowering of the column.

I'd carry out all the changes that you are planning and then use the stub axle mod to get the camber set as you want.

Scott
User avatar
IMPerative
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:44 am
Club Member: No
Car Model: Aussie Imp MkIII
Location: Australia

Re: 3 Imps entered in a stage rally in the South over Christ

Post by IMPerative »

Here in Oz all our Imps are high pivot with the exception of the GT's (Sport in UK). I attempted to change my high pivot components for low pivot from a GT but found that the mounting holes (floor ribs) were slightly different. The low pivot appears to be about half a bolt hole lower on the floor rib and although I haven't been able to find a genuine low pivot car to check, I suspect the floor stampings from the two models are slightly different. I currently have all the bits sitting on my garage floor with the intention of converting the high pivot components to low pivot and have just noticed that there is a difference in the wishbone pivot points - the high pivot are 2" apart and the low pivot are 2-1/2" apart. Your change from low to high pivot components may just be enough to cause your wishbone/pinch bolt problem. Also with your changes, do your front pivot points have the same spacing (2 or 2-1/2'') as your rear pivot points?
Presumably this change influenced the change in wishbones between the high and low pivot cars - I suspect it was done to alter bump steer characteristics.
Thanks for your contributions that inspire all us less courageous Impers and good luck in future events.
IMPerative - must have one
Aussie MKIII
Post Reply

Return to “Motorsport Forum”