oil sump

[Grumpyoldmen]

Are non-standard (= enlarged) oil sump allowed in historic racing?

[Grumpyoldmen]

Let's put it this way:
How do you deal with oil surge in long turns?
Anyone who have a picture of a rebuilt and baffled oil sump?

[gnatman]

Some images in the gallery : http://theimpclub.co.uk/gallery/album.p ... &start=100

Don

[Lotus-e-Clan]

Be wary of the commonly available long sumps with partitions. The holes connecting the partitions will trap oil to the front of the sump under braking and uncover the oil pick up next door. You could improve them by replacing the holes with a trap door but I haven't seen one done like that yet. No point really because you don't need a sump that big anyway.

Similarly don't partition off the sump from the crank case above and expect small holes to return the large volume of oil now trapped in the crankcase at high revs...especially if using a high capacity oil pump which could (in theory) pump 1 litre per second @ 10 krpm. And if you enlarge the holes too much (above the pick-up especially) it will defeat the object of the exercise anyway (anti-surge).

The better designed competition sumps are std Imp size and if you do increase the capacity then increase the depth and lower the oil pickup, or do one like Mike Hannas (champ Imp racer) which is std front to back length but is extended side ways at the very bottom of the sump. There's a picture of his sump on the net somewhere and I think he will make them for you. And he'll modifiy the pick-up to suit.

[benwick3]

Where I have to use a wet sump I increase the depth by 2 inches, using the existing bottom of the sump as a baffle and then modify the pickup to be positioned in the new bottom extension. This works well and is currently being used on Michel Chapel's Clan in the French Maxi 1000 series.

Pete Richards

[Grumpyoldmen]

Where I have to use a wet sump I increase the depth by 2 inches, using the existing bottom of the sump as a baffle and then modify the pickup to be positioned in the new bottom extension. This works well and is currently being used on Michel Chapel's Clan in the French Maxi 1000 series.

Pete Richards

This will not make it to close to the ground?

[Grumpyoldmen]

Be wary of the commonly available long sumps with partitions. The holes connecting the partitions will trap oil to the front of the sump under braking and uncover the oil pick up next door. You could improve them by replacing the holes with a trap door but I haven't seen one done like that yet. No point really because you don't need a sump that big anyway.

Similarly don't partition off the sump from the crank case above and expect small holes to return the large volume of oil now trapped in the crankcase at high revs...especially if using a high capacity oil pump which could (in theory) pump 1 litre per second @ 10 krpm. And if you enlarge the holes too much (above the pick-up especially) it will defeat the object of the exercise anyway (anti-surge).

The better designed competition sumps are std Imp size and if you do increase the capacity then increase the depth and lower the oil pickup, or do one like Mike Hannas (champ Imp racer) which is std front to back length but is extended side ways at the very bottom of the sump. There's a picture of his sump on the net somewhere and I think he will make them for you. And he'll modifiy the pick-up to suit.

Interesting!! I have seen some examples of the "long" sump so I thought that was the general modification. But more oil capacity is always welcome.

[Lotus-e-Clan]

Interesting!! I have seen some examples of the "long" sump so I thought that was the general modification. But more oil capacity is always welcome.

I have a different take on this. More sump oil capacity is only useful for covering up inadequacies elsewhere. And having a small volume of oil is more desirable than having a large one....some of the reasons are outlined below.

Firstly, cooling. If your oil cooling isn't efficient then more oil in the sump will just delay overheating not cure it. You'll eventually have a large volume of very hot oil to cool rather than the smaller volume of the std sump.

Ok, if your engine only runs for short periods then you'll never reach that point.

Also a large volume of oil takes longer to reach working temperature so engine wear is increased.

Secondly, consumption, Yes a large sump is handy if your engine is using oil at a high rate, but it is possible to build a hard working competition imp engine to use very little /negligible oil.

Thirdly, a large volume will more likely keep the pick-up covered...well that mostly depends on the sump design so therefore you can just as easily design a small capacity anti-surge sump and have all the advantages of circulating a smaller volume of oil.

[Dave ' Linwood ' Lane]

^^^^^^^^^ Very interesting Peter , I always thought quality rather than quantity was the best way to go , Valvoline 20/50 racing seems to be the best , although weirdly it smells like gearbox oil .

[Grumpyoldmen]

But less oil capacity are seldom welcome.

[Lotus-e-Clan]

Yep, you want neither too much nor too little.

So basically you want optimal oil capacity which will be the sum of the volumes that fill the galleries, bearings, filter and cooler plus some excess to splash on the pistons and cylinders and the least amount in the sump that will keep the pick-up covered at all times at maximum revs (without foaming).

[Mike Hanna]

Hi all. I shall be bringing several of my latest design side chamber competition sumps to the Imp National on Saturday for clients. This sump is currently being used by Colin Gunton on (ex) my championship winning car in the HSCC saloons to good effect. Anyone interested can find me on Mark Maynards trade stand at some point. Cheers. Mike

[benwick3]

This will not make it to close to the ground?[/quote]

Had no problems with the Clan.

Pete Richards

[Adrian]

I have run both Bevan deep sump pan and pickup and one of Mike Hanna's sumps which I currently run.
Both have been fine with no problems and Mikes new design looks to be the best bet for slicks in my opion.

Cheers

Adrian

[Grumpyoldmen]

I have run both Bevan deep sump pan and pickup and one of Mike Hanna's sumps which I currently run.
Both have been fine with no problems and Mikes new design looks to be the best bet for slicks in my opion.

Cheers

Adrian

Can it be seen somewhere on internet?

[colin rooney]

Here are some pictures Mike Hanna asked me to post up of the sumps he supplies to Colin Gunton and a few of the other historic saloon car drivers ,Mike himself used a sump like this on his car and all the drivers useing them have had very good succes with these as far as oil surge goes ,If your interested in one mike can be contacted on the forum or if you cant find him contact me and i will put you intouch with Mike




cheers col

[Grumpyoldmen]

Interesting. How much oil is it supposed to be in that sump?

[colin rooney]

Hi i dont know best to go to members list and go into the m section and find mike that way or with a bit of luck he will reply i will give him a nudge via email

col

[Mike Hanna]

Hi all. Thanks for posting the photos for me Col. This sump holds about the same amount as the usual modified long sump. Most of the additional oil in this sump is in a much better position to keep the pump pick up pipe fed when braking or on left hand corners. Obviously there is more to this sump than can be seen in the photos! I believe this is currently the best option, other than a dry sump system, (simpler and much cheaper!!) for racing or rallying. I can supply one with a modified pick up pipe and pump end plate. Anyone interested in having one of them can ring me on 01242 680011. Cheers. Mike