Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

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knutspeed
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Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by knutspeed » Wed May 19, 2010 1:03 pm

How was it back in the good old days - could a 1000cc Imp compete with the 1300cc minis? What is the situation in the UK? I'm getting itchy waiting to try our new 71-spec Imp, and the opposition is mainly from Minis with the odd NSU, Abarth and Escort thrown in. Not enough cars for a pukka 1000cc class unfortunately. This is period G2 (66-71), strict App K.
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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by moose » Wed May 19, 2010 3:58 pm

the imp was very competitve and still is but still suffers the same problems not as many as mini's out there and parts to tune mini's cheaper and more readily available so to shine in an imp you need a good driver with a good budget, whereas there are loads of mini's so if a mini engine lets go cheaper to replace and keep your championship going so hence more results for mini's.


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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by bazzateer » Wed May 19, 2010 5:20 pm

A 998 Imp should wipe the floor with an equivalent 997/998 Mini. It'll also give a few 1275 Minis a scare as well.
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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by Meltdown » Wed May 19, 2010 8:25 pm

As I understand it, M**s run better with 8 port heads, but they're few and far between.
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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by knutspeed » Wed May 19, 2010 9:55 pm

Well, I'm coming from racing Minis, and I'll be up against 1300cc minis - 8-ports as well. Plus there's 1300cc Escorts (twinks, not BDAs - yet), 1300cc NSUs...all group 2 FIA cars. I'd say the Imp is as highly spec'ed as possible for the class as possible. Full-race Reg Patten 998 engine, s/C box, LSD - the full works. The only current reference I can find now is from Denmark where the Minis seem to be a good deal faster.

I figure I should be at least 2-3 secs faster per lap than my mini (which I ran in pre-65 on CR65 tyres - the Imp will be on modern R-tires) to be competitive.
Last edited by knutspeed on Thu May 20, 2010 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by knutspeed » Wed May 19, 2010 9:58 pm

Oh - and the price of tuning a Mini, at least for FIA racing, has gone through the roof the last few years. A top-end engine from swiftune or similar will be about 10 grand+ which is a good deal more than for an Imp. A perfect pre 65 Cooper S would cost somewhere in the region of 20-30000 GBP to build. So an Imp doesn't only sound better, it costs less :)
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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by moose » Thu May 20, 2010 9:13 am

your right price has gone through the roof for the top end racers, i was more thinking clubmens racing but i could be wrong there as well you still se 100+ bhp mini engines for £2k whereas the equivalnt imp is way upwards of that if both bought from engine builders i know people do their own from seconhand parts etc but to get big power from the mini's you go up in cc to the class limit so the imp 998 V mini 997 the mini would not stand a chance power wise unless it was a very trick engine and then it would cost more than the imp engine.

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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by SimonBenoy » Thu May 20, 2010 11:58 am

You need to consider the main factors. A top 1300 mini engine to appendix K spec could produce a bit more power than a 998 Imp - I presume that they have to use the 1275 crank rather than the short stroke. Also the mini will probably be lighter. This will make stopping easier though the Imp brakes should be slightly better as they are bigger.

Handling is also very different - there are some tracks that Minis don't like so much and vice versa.

I think in period, Bevan entered an Imp in the 1000-1300 class at the end of a season and won the class, hence stopping the leading 1300 from scoring maximum points.

In the HRSR, the leading Imps can rarely match the leading 1300 minis which do have short stroke motors, but we can usually get close to the App K cars to 66 Regs. But we run below app K weight and have better brakes.

Nothing like muddying the water a bit but I hope that helps!
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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by benwick3 » Thu May 20, 2010 3:10 pm

I race against all the cars you mentioned, with the exception of the Escort, in the British Car Trophy in Germany, Belgium and occasionally Luxembourg, in my full race 998 engined Clan. I find I'm more than competitive with the Abarths and the NSU's but the Mini's are a different matter. A couple of seasons ago I thought I was getting close to their pace and did record an outright agggregate win on one occasion. However, since then they have appeared to up their pace and left me behind. Not a situation I like to be in. The fastest Mini's are to Mini Miglia specification and above . On quoted power figures I find I'm giving away between 20 and 30+ bhp. We all race on slicks and weight wise the lightest Mini's are now in the 500 - 550kg range.

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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by knutspeed » Thu May 20, 2010 6:26 pm

Hmm. This will be interesting. However, the fastest '71 Minis are running about 2 seconds better laptimes compared to my '65 Mini - they are allowed more tuning (weber etc) and run modern rubber, whereas I ran CR65s which are very slippery in comparison. The Imp is about 60kgs heavier, but has more power (at least compared to my mini), better brakes and a lot more modern rubber, and in my opinion a better handling chassis. I got to try my dad's Imp for just 5 laps at my local track, and easily matched my personal best in the Mini (over 5 years of development and racing), and felt that there was quite a bit of time to find, so I'm optimistic. This is a typical RWD torque track though, so...

As mentioned above, the Imp will probably be better at certain tracks and vice versa. Only one way to find out! Stay tuned... :D
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Re: Imp vs Mini - how competitive?

Post by ImpManiac » Thu May 20, 2010 8:21 pm

I shall be following this. Most interesting! :D Make sure you stick it to those pesky Minis!

Paul 8)
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