Spaceframe Imps

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:23 pm

Brilliant,Col.Who's got a time machine?

Graham,depends on your definition of easy.

I need to get me a close look at one of these.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:28 pm

come and have a look at mine later this year when i race at mondello ,leo cant wait to kick my but butt i have an excuse already he knows the track better than me, so i may have to let the older rooney have a spin,im all fired up now after watching pat shame his car broke which was quiet rare as the prep on his car was fantastic

col

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:30 pm

wernt that a BDA, i will have to check , Wow them boys were quick, dont know about the others but Baldwins still at it.

Heres a story and this is no bull. From a good friend who knows the man. Theres been a new mini built for the circuit and its the dogs of the dogs body wise etc etc. Its got a v8 powertec in the front. The words were from the man, that they stopped counting after £200,000. First practice it drops a link on the front suspension, The last i heard it left the rd and went backward into a barrier. Huge money. Thats not bull sh** either.

Meltdown · Post by **Meltdown** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:38 pm

Heres a story and this is no bull. From a good friend who knows the man. Theres been a new mini built for the circuit and its the dogs of the dogs body wise etc etc. Its got a v8 powertec in the front. The words were from the man, that they stopped counting after £200,000. First practice it drops a link on the front suspension, The last i heard it left the rd and went backward into a barrier. Huge money. Thats not bull sh** either.

Is that the green one with more wings than a 747 I saw racing at silverstone late last year?

Great Grandstand footage from Thruxton BTW!

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:49 pm

colin rooney wrote:come and have a look at mine later this year when i race at mondello ,leo cant wait to kick my but butt i have an excuse already he knows the track better than me, so i may have to let the older rooney have a spin,im all fired up now after watching pat shame his car broke which was quiet rare as the prep on his car was fantastic

col

Dont worry,I'll be there all right.

Might have a shandy too.

Meltdown · Post by **Meltdown** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:50 pm

[quote]Rob knox ,ray chassis x pat mannion stiletto
with the young miss knox getting the feel for her new imp ready to take on her dad in a few years time

Is this the same car as seen in the Grandstand footage?

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:54 pm

There's something funky going on here and I cant quite figure it out
Raised the floor and chopped the bulkhead?

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:55 pm

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:59 pm

No john is had a 3 inch waiste line chop

chris · Post by **chris** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:00 pm

I like the way that white one is done at the front, Im thinking thats the style Ill do mine so there's still a little bit of arch for wet weather since Ill be driving it on the road etc etc.

I thought he had just cut sections off the original arches and then a few plates around the shock position then the struts down the centre for the arm mounts??

I likey anyhow!

edit.... Colin wheres it had its chop?

knocker · Post by **knocker** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:08 pm

Colin loving that grandstand youtube link

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:17 pm

You can do the chop 2 ways 1st is and dont forget these cars are all semi spaceframe so not a lot of steel left so if you can imagine a car well i say a car a floor pan with front bulkhead and roof with the A and B posts so they cut 3 inchs from the front bulkhead and the post somewhere in the middle of the posts and the top of the bulkhead and lowe it back down and weld it up then clad it in maguire style panels ,2nd is to remove the outer sills and cut the front wheel tubs up 3 inchs and the door posts weld the floor back to the tubs and and stiffen the inner box or replace with box tubeing and again clad in maguire style panels as the maguire was designed to be 3 inchs or so lower

col

chris · Post by **chris** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:38 pm

Nope still confused lol, so the front wheels are closer to the bulkhead? Reduced wheel base?

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:42 pm

no the height you cut car in half so the top lifts off the bottom and then cut 3 inchs out and sit it back down come on chris your playing with my head now

chris · Post by **chris** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:19 pm

so a roof chop then!!??

Im thinking the front would look good on mine though, it should be easy enough that shouldnt it? thats not shortened or raised now is it lol

les998 · Post by **les998** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:25 pm

Hear is a link to YouTube for a video that i have just uploaded of my old Stiletto, sorry the quality is not that good as i don't know how to upload it from a DVD so i just had to video it with my camera while it was playing on the TV so i could get it to upload, I hope you like !!!!
Sorry but it is a bike engine, but just about the same size as the Imp at 893cc

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:29 pm

No with special saloons you could not change the size of the glass area of the car can someone else who knows what im on about please please help me out here a do a drawing for chris

col

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:36 pm

col i just sent you some pics via your personal email they will explain, i cannot load them up .

Just a quick one col the lads racing in the wendy wools, Was wondering what brakes and uprights they used to run? and what size rims and tyres were they on?

chris · Post by **chris** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:40 pm

do you mean here? A section cut out then welded back up?

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:44 pm

here u go have a look at these u will notice the bulkhead is not as high

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:49 pm

Nice vid Les! Nippy enough all right

chris · Post by **chris** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:52 pm

yep got it lol finally

Interesting back photos too, so to semi the back I could cut out all the back end leaving the roof in place, and the external arches then bars coming down from the roll cage, up from the floor, spring cups and then use the std rear cross member in its original location with the rear wishbones (probably tubular and lengthened by this point) and have the rear wings just tied across the back with supports etc etc.

If I do all that do'ya think its kinda gone past the point of being able to use on the road lol????

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:00 pm

that it you have got it now ,my car still uses the imp rear crossmember but thats where the original steel of the car stops,cant see why you cant still drive it on the road as long as you brace it right there should be no problem if you check out the picture of my car showing the dry sump tank it will give you an idea of what i meam or just copy the triangalation of 1 of the space fram chassis

col

ibbo · Post by **ibbo** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:44 pm

wow white mason stiletto looks like its undergoing some work last time i saw it iwas helping dave llewellyn load it on to back of his truck who owns it now and how is it progressing i loved this car well worth saving

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:15 pm

A bloke bought it from dave and sent it to impspeed to have the work done ,ron done the work and now owns the car and as far as i know its for sale contact ron

col

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:20 pm

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:23 pm

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:25 pm

the benoy rawlson chassis when i had it

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:27 pm

my old v8 imp very early 80s girl is now my wife

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:31 pm

some of my work. yes i know theyre minis but it shows some of whats involved

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:14 pm

Wow,thats some work!

****post edited to include comment from Kevan McLurg****
George Coghill Maguire Imp-first car sold by writers father,later had it in 1980,bought from Mike Hannon who hillclimbed it,he had a bad leg and fitted a hand clutch on the gear lever.(Hannon)

big J · Post by **big J** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:59 am

More from Les Campbell.
Time to rake through those old CCC mags in the loft?

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:30 pm

Ok we have created some interest here. Is there anyone who really wants a frame making either part frame or complete. This is for a total spaceframed chassis. Let me know if you are serious. Im on with sorting panels and as soon as the NEC is over this weekend i want to be on with the chassis.

We have had plenty in bound lets see who wants to do what.

Pm me please.

Thanks mike

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:51 pm

There is plenty of intrest but the way i see thing you are not going to get many replys by putting an advert saying you can supply panels and a chassis if you dont start with a price guide ,Mike please dont take this the wrong way but i have been around imps since i was a kid and i know how imp people work thing out they like to see a price on a car or in this case a chassis ,Now say were talking a chassis like the remade mason 1 if you could work out how much that chassis bare will be to except imp suspension arms and imp gearbox/engine lay out them you may find a bit more intrest plus how much the panels maguire or davrian then people can think right its x amount and if say they can afford to buy the bits as in chassis and body work and slowly built there car as and when they have a few quid ,where as people may inquire at the moment with no prices and when you tell them the think sod that but you get a false reading because of the amout of calls

col

Richard Claydon · Post by **Richard Claydon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:04 pm

Spot on Col but it's not just Imp people.

Not a critisism so please don't take it as such but the first question is going to be how much ££. If you can provide a range of prices - chassis only, chassis and body etc etc and offer packages you'll get more interest. It's exactly what all the component car manufacurers do, have a look at any of their websites or in a Kitcar mag.

Cheers

Rich

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:33 pm

There are prices and prices. making even only 3 frames is alot more efficient than 1 frame.
Then there is real volume, not long ago lotus 7 kit cars were £1200 for a body chassis kit.
Simple jigs are an enormous help but its a balance between time making them and time saved.
The above mini chassis are complicated but with jigs could be done in 2 weeks.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:37 pm

Yes i agree Graham but how much were the mini chassis to give an idea

col

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:44 pm

Hi points taken. Just to go over. There is no point putting a price on here because if anyone really wants to get interested they will be talking with me on the phone over what is available. I want there input as well. Once i speak with them i will want them to discuss what application. Once they say yes we are interested we will then go to the supplier and say here we go we want these and we go from there.

Im not making money out of this , its about me wanting to see some race imps back out and giving people the opportunity to have a new car at right money. And a safe car.

As i said we are waiting on prices for body and spaceframes. but it can be all talk. The parts or spaceframes can be paid for over a period of what the buyer wants hence there is alot to talk about.

However if you go to ARD autograss cars you can have a look at there autograss cars. they are built using the best materials. and are champions in all classes.

However please dont call as ive already spoken to Anthony as i know him well and he has told me he wants to get involved, Not only that hes at the NEC this week and also moving workshops to York.

Im not here to rile people im here to get the project started

Hope this explains

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:49 pm

Just a quick one its pointless to ask graham the price of his cars as material costs change. These people are geared up to make one or several cars. I think graham only built on a part time basis. These guys have all the kit but are still realatively cheap. Anthony has told me he would like to get involved and i know hes competitive its his job and hes a winner. Not only that he previously had a rival in grassing as you all now as Zcars Lol Hope this explains.

benwick3 · Post by **benwick3** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:52 pm

Followed this thread with interest. Whilst it looks that there are people in the position to offer both frames and panels as Colin says no prices are given. One other point that appears to have been overlooked is that of where to use the completed cars competively. It doesn't take a lot to realise that the cost of a complete car will be very high and I seriously don't see many people willing to make such an outlay just to compete in sprints and hillclimbs and the odd regional race series where they will only be competeing for class honours.

The Hundred Thousand Society has been put forward as a potential home but this has a long way to go, in my opinion, before coming a viable series. Also, the regulations, as currently proposed, would exclude the appropriate class from taking the honours.

Whilst my comments appear to be negative I would like to be proved wrong.

Pete Richards

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:58 pm

Hi richard . Not being funny but this is the problem . people wil probably jump on this thread when they have never raced or have no intention of racing . hence what i put in the listing. This is not me making a sale its about finding the right people who want to get invloved. Its simple!

I will probably be budgeting around £6-7 k for the project with a differnt powered engine so everyones going to be different in there budget. Im going the bike way so its cheaper.

Again all im saying is if you are genuinley interested speak to me. Less talk and less type and lets see some Action. i like to get on with things. My project will be spread over this year.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:00 pm

Mike im not having a pop at you i just feel a price would at least give people an idea ,i know is hard to price something like this but there must be a start figure ,personaly im not interested in a frame as i have a car and if i wanted or had the time i would build a frame as i took measur,ents from Graham's car a few years ago ,im getting rawlson fronts remade and as i said before there was loads of people interested until i told them they will be £400 each ,it may well be a bit over the top but when you have to get the mould made as person in the club has 1 but wont loan it

col

big J · Post by **big J** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:05 pm

Good man Mike and fair play to you for doing it.

If I could just add a couple of thoughts?

Keep the design as simple as possible,it'll keep costs down and be easier/quicker to make.Megapins frame is a nice example of strong and relatively straightforward.
If it's possible,see if a frame could be made which would accomodate both the lightweight panels and a cut down steel shell.
Maybe some fellas if they were starting out could use an otherwise scrap shell til they could afford the proper lightweight panels.
Keep the Imp suspension set up,works well enough for anybody.

I hope this works out,it's a great idea,you obviously know what you're doing,but just thought it needed saying.

edit,just been typing while youse were too.You can happily race modsports in Ireland,maybe it's time to start lobbying the powers that be in the UK?

Edit again-just to put that in perspective,Col,a friend just paid £1800 for two ally front wings for his Alfa.I priced up the glass and materials to make my own bonnet and boot and it came to about E 180,so 400 for a whole front is damn good.

benwick3 · Post by **benwick3** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:26 pm

Speeddemon,

Just for the record I'm not someone to jump on this thread not having raced. As many of the members of this forum know I have raced Imp powered cars for near on 25 years in both the UK and mainland Europe. I know the problems, costs and the dreamers! At times I've felt I have been ploughing a lonely furrow.

As I said I hope you prove me wrong and I wish you luck.

Pete Richards

Richard Claydon · Post by **Richard Claydon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:33 pm

No absolutely it'd great news that someones going to produce them - if I could have bought a spaceframe Imp in component form 8 months ago I wouldn't be building the current kitcar that I am now.

Was just trying to say that you need a product before you can sell it.

Cheers

Rich

Richard Claydon · Post by **Richard Claydon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:35 pm

big J wrote:Edit again-just to put that in perspective,Col,a friend just paid £1800 for two ally front wings for his Alfa.I priced up the glass and materials to make my own bonnet and boot and it came to about E 180,so 400 for a whole front is damn good.

Yep the body for the yellow kitcar that I posted up was £1700

Rich

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:08 pm

Good comments, like i said i have looked down many routes and am puting everything into place to save time and money. We have some people who are members of the forum coming back to us with regards to panels. I think we want to be looking at £750 -£1000 max if we are going to get this going and ive done my home work> at that price theres a quid in it for the people who own the moulds as well as giving a good deal to the people who place orders. After all whats the use in the moulds sitting there useless.and noone can afford them. Levi routes , reggie reggie sauce

Next i will leave the semi spaceframe to Colin at this time, hes done a few and at this moment its hard enough getting enough interest in a full spaceframe. The design will be strength, lightness and safety. Although chassis will be available in different guises. All im trying to do is get the basics in place.

I will be using standard mounting points at the front , back im not sure cos of the power unit. I would like to think that a chassis , all mounting points and a chassis panel kit plus some extras will be under £2k. IM hoping

But lets be serious racing is never cheap.

Like i said serious enquires , please get in touch lets work together on it.

maguire imp · Post by **maguire imp** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:14 pm

Ok guys here it goes,i would be happy to supply a full shell( panels only )FROM genuine maguire stilletto moulds,excluding carriage for £1.500 pounds sterling,this includes front lower splitter,the moulds i have are genuine maguire moulds from the original cars,i cant make differences in people everyone will be treated equal,that way no one will feel let down,hope i can print robert knox from kent has had panels from me in the past and ownes a genuine maguire stiletto special saloon,the quality will be excellent i allways use the same guy to make these for me,sorry moulds not for sale or for hire so please dont ask me

Hoping this helps,ive had maguire imps etc for over ten years

Keith scott

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:22 pm

Well now were starting to get some where with a few prices i can back maguire imp up on the panels as he says rob knox had some and was very happy ,im sure rob will post up on the quality ,and at £1,500 for a full kit sounds good to me

col

knocker · Post by **knocker** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:30 pm

Have had two rear wings off Keith very happy with the quality of them,also have asked him about a roof has come back to me at £650. I peronally think a full kit for £1500 is reasonabley priced. I had a front mould made plus a front taken from it and also a rear wing with a mould from that from a firm in Gravesend which also Brian was having a complete set of moulds done for his mason stilletto that can be seen on here at a cost to me of £1200 only God know what a full kit for Brians car would have cost him? I did sell the front to a chap called Alex Cutler (alex44) from Staffordshire in April 2008 don't know whether he still has it?
Reference Mike I can only think that getting some more cars out there would be a good thing to get a race series together.