Spaceframe Imps

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:49 pm

Have to say well said rob im with you 100 %

col

Piers Phillips · Post by **Piers Phillips** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:23 pm

At last some reaction and some commets....Brilliant.
No offense intended Rob... You know me. Just pushing a few buttons

Question, If the class actually had a championship or prize to fight for do we think more people would do more of the rounds ?

Stakhanovite · Post by **Stakhanovite** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:51 pm

I should of course said "BDH" that's the correct designation for the 1300 BD series engine. 190 BHP at high revs. Short stroke Screamer. Baldwins mini was definitely a 1300 BDH, I saw it race at Castle Combe back in the 80s.

Megapin · Post by **Megapin** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:01 pm

At last some reaction and some commets....Brilliant.
No offense intended Rob... You know me. Just pushing a few buttons

Question, If the class actually had a championship or prize to fight for do we think more people would do more of the rounds ?

I don't think a championship prize will make any difference to the people who are competing in CSSC Special Saloons because
I believe we are all there as true enthusiasts only interested in racing.
Doesn't matter if your first or last as long as you have somebody close to race.
I was the one who suggested scrapping all the classes and let everyone just race with no prizes or trophies.
I fully uphold Rob's views that the economics of motor racing nowadays are the main factor of when are where you compete.
For instance last year's Silverstone cost me £170 towing fuel, £50 race fuel, entry about £275 ? and that's not counting taking
time off work to get there, hotel bills or wear and tear/damage to the car. Castle Coombe was even worse !
This year has been a hard year in my business and I have only been able to commit to one of the CSSC rounds because of cost.
I have, as many others do, raced at several closer to home meetings which don't cost as much for travelling or time off work.
Unfortunately I live in the far north of the country and no one really wants to travel up here to Croft or Knockhill.
Silverstone is a 5.5hr drive for me and Castle Coombe was 9hrs. but I did them both last year.
In the good old days of modsports there was start money paid which unfortunately is no longer with us and will never return.

My suggestion would be to run a historic section and a modern section together to allow up to 1993 in historics and later and newly
built spaceframed silhouette cars to run in the modern section. This would almost give two races in one and could be started on a delayed
start as per the Mondello race that Col linked to. Would also widen the scope for the entries.
Well that's my rant for the day, now back to work to earn some money for next years racing !
DAvy

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Great chit chat here.

Was actually just speaking with a friend who bought lots of bd stuff off pete and he confirmed that the black mini had neither a bda/bdh. Apparantley the blocks were ally custom castings with the BD heads, gorden allen one peice crank on mini box so he says neither really. He also has Petes 1500cc which is now sat in his maquire mini looking forward to that coming out.

Im wondering why these 998cc imps could compete with a 190hp car driven by a top top driver. The reason I wonder is because my spaceframed forster chasiss has a 4age 200hp and not being funny if you ask stuart who has the quickest spaceframe imp at the minute which is superb and well developed, its no match for my car and being honest im a total rubbish driver.

With regards to competing in the cscc, just try and get out and race if possible. thats all you can do.

SimonBenoy · Post by **SimonBenoy** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:42 pm

An Imp powered car would only be able to compete with something more powerful at certain circuits, in much the same way that the Imp HRSR cars are much further up the field sometimes. So at places like Donington or Silverstone National, not even close. But Brands Indy, Cadwell and Silverstone GP (yes, really) they will be closer. And of course, the old Castle Combe layout and Thruxton also suit the lighter Imp based cars. But if the bigger engined spaceframes are also down to 350kg, and have 200bhp, then Imp power will struggle to compete.

Just a few guesses, some of it might be right!

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:18 pm

HI simon sorry I got to correct you, my mini weighs 520kg with me in. Im 70kgs. The imp doesnt live with my mini. Stuarts car is very very quick but the mini laps anything upto 3 seconds quicker and thats with me driving. If my man who owned it drove the car its probably 5-6 seconds quicker. Your little steel imp is a flyer and it makes good inroads against the cars you race, But a fully sorted spaceframe racer will be way way ahead of the imp. The performance, power to weight handling full slicks etc etc make up a feirce combination. Stuarts car battles way up the field gainst more powerfull machinery which s testament to how well the cars sorted.

As regards the Baldwin mini. I was looking at some history on Gorden Allen and it was as my mate Endaf says. The blocks were cast by/for him on his design he grafted the Bd head on. Gorden Allen sold his crank company in 80 and died in 84. A very clever man
who did many unique engines including a 2 cylinder 850 which was half an engine which was left from a blown up 1700bD as well as grafting a jag head on a mini engne.

that clears that up then

SimonBenoy · Post by **SimonBenoy** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:32 am

So your car is 450kg - Stuart's won't be much lighter then, hence why he won't be able to compete.

Dogsbody · Post by **Dogsbody** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:06 am

Just enjoyed reading the discussion on BHP, made my morning

Pretty sure they could extract 180-190 BHP from a Lotus Cortina engine.
I was getting 140 odd out of a 1660 XFlow engine back in the early 80's

How things move on, my 1700cc Puma engine is unmodified and puts out 159 bhp on the rolling road.
Its much much more reliable than the highly tuned Xflow and nicer to drive as its not a peaky power delivery.

Which is why I didn't even consider tuning a Imp engine for the Stiletto.
A nice reliable standard Japanese bike engine, 900cc and 125 bhp

TTK 25L · Post by **TTK 25L** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:23 am

Mike, Stuart's car is around 100kgs heavier than your's, and I am heavier than you too but I am working on that!
It isn't set up properly yet either, the sping rates aren't far off but the corner weights are miles off but that isn't holding us back too much but there is more to come for sure.
Plus your Mini will have much more torque being a 1600 than the 1040 in Stuart's car.

Martin

Piers Phillips · Post by **Piers Phillips** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:40 am

Good stuff Martin,
I know my car is about 100 Kgs lighter than Stuarts and with such a small amout of horsepower available that will make a huge difference in performance. Simon Benoy is completely correct with his comments regarding the Imp being competitive at certain circuits. The sooner we get more cars out to play amongst the bigger engined cars the better. I firmly belive that now the class structure has been revisited and sorted out that we will see more smaller engined cars coming out to play in the future. Im just waiting on my engine and the build will continue. Not sure about you but I reckon old "Sticks" Brownsey is now milking the whole injury thing. I reckon he'll be on Jeremy Kyle soon

Either that or the bird doing his Physio is smokin hot and he just wants more attention..... God I hope its not a man!

The Castle Combe championship I reckon will be a great place to run the cars between the CSCC events... Maybe we could get a bit of an inter Imp championship going. Sponsored by RODWELL obviously !
We should really push for a Thruxton race in the future as I reckon there could be a big surprise in store for a few. Poke , poke, poke

Im off again to the states on New years day for Daytona test but will be back again mid Jan to press on getting the Maguire finished...

Gaffer · Post by **Gaffer** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:06 pm

Martin, how about getting some more of your 'in car videos' on here for everyone to see. It's a shame we can't see the 'flames' out of the exhaust on the gear changes

I think it demonstrates the difference in engine sizes and comparisons as described in the above threads.
I loved this Vid

more this year please.
Pete

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Martin you have misread the situation here. Let me just put it back into context. I was saying that if baldwins mini was 190hp there aint no way and id bet my house on it that no imp would be that close. Back then, when competitors started switching to more powerfull engines the a series powered cars and the imp powered spaceframes became less and less competitive and faded away.
Please I im an honest guy and you are a far better driver than I. If you reduced the weight on the imp and lost 3 stone the mini would comfortably win. Its like my mini against simon holloways lotus the power and straight line speed on todays circuits will leave the imp for dead. Endaf told me his mini is comfortably 3-4 seconds quicker than his imp. The mini was straight out the blocks 185hp kad 16 valve

Anyhow piers whats the class change about, wheres the small cars and who pleasse

TTK 25L · Post by **TTK 25L** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:44 pm

Mike, I agree that the Imps will be left for dead on the straights behind the the bigger engined Minis, all I was indicating is that our car is a little slower than it should be at the moment and that a super light Maguire Imp would be closer. I think the Imps will still have better corner speed and better under braking than the Minis due to weight distribution etc.
I also think a lot of the power figures quoted 'in the day' were total b****cks for both the Imps and the Minis!!

Megapin · Post by **Megapin** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:51 pm

At the end of the day there's only one way to find out who's car will be the quickest and that's to get racing.
Power to weight ratios matter less than skill behind the wheel and that is only learned (usually) from time
on track.
So see you all at Silverstone in May in the small cc class !

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:38 pm

Great to see abit of banter about getting cars out and that's what is needed ,Does it really matter who has the quickest imp ,to me no as my semi spaceframe car weighs in at around the same as Stuarts but the height of a standard body style is catching a lot more air my front on the rawlson is around 10 inchs heigher than the new front I have for the Maguire ,so please boys don't start a debate on who is quicker lets just try and keep the series going

col

moose · Post by **moose** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:46 pm

no need for a debate colin my rally car would be the fastest

i wont come out on the race series to prove it to you all

me and the co-driver weigh the same as some of your cars

it would be good to see some of the cars on this thread on the track

Piers Phillips · Post by **Piers Phillips** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:59 pm

Hi Mile,
Well the CSCC have very sensibly waived the ruling saying that Spaceframe and Sequential gearbox cars are to move up a class. Therefore your Engine size installed is your determined class !

Happy days for the Imp brigade !

It does however say that any Man City supporters must start from the pitlane at every event !

Toon Army !

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:41 pm

Martin now were talking sense

your understanding me. Unfortunatley many people who use these forums cling to nonsical power figures and do nothing to prove there words have nothing to do with race cars, have never built engines and have never competed. We call them dreamers and messers. We have heard it all before on here. Go back to the start of the thread and read through all the so called great ideas and dreamers who wanted to start racing, especially in a spaceframe car . Infact the HTs was just that, a dream.

Lucky enough there are a handfull of people who want to compete and have a go, whether its once or twice a year at least they come and have a go. So like Piers says lets get out racing.

Unlucky today for the Toon army was routing for them to turn over them gooners.

Blue moon rising swiflty over the red smog hahahah

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:46 pm

Well done Martin you understood me.

Messers and dreamers on this thread thats why there are only a handfull of spaceframe imps about racing and no one aprt from the usual fellas are involved. Heard all the tails at race meetings and listened to nonsical people go on about how great this engine was and that engine. Im simply stating factual evidence.

Anyhow like piers says get out racing and enjoy these great cars

See you all in the new year with my 152 hp imp hahahhahahah

toon army not quite enough to defeat the gooners, but dont worry piers the blue moon is rising high high high above the red smog hahaahhah

johnh875 · Post by **johnh875** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:36 am

"If you are interested" - a thousand times yes!

Fascinating to hear about not just the Imp side of things but racing I didn't grow up with. Thanks for sharing/documenting your a few of your memories Rob.

John

Lotus-e-Clan · Post by **Lotus-e-Clan** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:34 am

+1

I like the fact that you found the rear weight bias difficult to master after racing minis. Suggests subconscious skills that are embedded and difficult to change in the short term. I too find it difficult to go from my Clan to my RWD Lotus ... keeping the foot in on bends in the Lotus is a disaster -especially in the wet!

bks974c · Post by **bks974c** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:04 am

Rob

Very interestng read, love to hear more

Scott

Gaffer · Post by **Gaffer** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:31 am

johnh875 wrote:"If you are interested" - a thousand times yes!

Fascinating to hear about not just the Imp side of things but racing I didn't grow up with. Thanks for sharing/documenting your a few of your memories Rob.

John

Love it. Fascinating to hear first hand. More please.

Peter.

ImpManiac · Post by **ImpManiac** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:19 pm

As above, Rob.

Keep the posts coming! It is truly fascinating to hear the history behind the Bevan cars and the spaceframes alike.

IM

rje · Post by **rje** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:22 pm

I remember Noel and I think I know who has his car now but I'm sorry I don't remember your brother. Noel and John Leinster. whose son was on here a while back, were always very competitive.

knocker · Post by **knocker** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:56 am

stuartbrownsey wrote:Bit of a negative attitude Rob

It only takes a few more small capacity cars to come and play (ie you) to make
a good championship even better. Maybe now the SEMSEC championship has folded
a few more will join in the fun.

Were planning on been out next year and Piers will have his car finished (Its absolutly stunning !!)
Colin Rooney has started his rebuild so that will be three in the future.
Couple more and it will be happy days.

Stuart (Rodwell Motorsport)

Hope all is underway ready for the 10th May Stuart & Piers we need to get theses IMPS out remember.
I will be down at Lydden on the 10th my local track. But will see you both at Brands my second local track end of May.

cov_climax · Post by **cov_climax** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:34 pm

Has this one been on here

Became

See
http://www.conceptracing.co.uk/other-pr ... ?nggpage=2

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:57 pm

cov_climax wrote:Has this one been on here

Became

See
http://www.conceptracing.co.uk/other-pr ... ?nggpage=2

No Brian I don't think it has until now I have seen it before ,it now looks a very strange bit of kit ,we could do with a few new cars showing up to get the thread going again ,hopefully I will start to update it later in the year when I start build my new spaceframe

col

knocker · Post by **knocker** » Fri May 30, 2014 3:09 am

CCSC at Brands this Saturday 3 IMPS entered.

Megapin · Post by **Megapin** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:19 pm

So who is doing CSCC Modsports Mallory ??

knocker · Post by **knocker** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:04 am

Yes, John Woods will be in the red imp.

TTK 25L · Post by **TTK 25L** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:11 am

We will be there with the black one too.

ImpManiac · Post by **ImpManiac** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:55 pm

Is it this weekend?

IM

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:22 pm

no july 20th

ImpManiac · Post by **ImpManiac** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:07 pm

Thanks, Colin. I might be able to attend on the 20th.

IM

mapman · Post by **mapman** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:07 pm

Anyone have any leads on Maguire moulds for new glass panels? I know Chris at Fibreclass has moulds of Colin's Rawlson but he hasn't yet replied to my email. Keith in Northern Ireland may have access to Maguire moulds too, but I don't have any details (costs, timing, etc).
I would prefer to convert my Rawlson Imp to Maguire Stiletto but may default to the Rawlson shape if nothing else can be found.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Paul.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:04 pm

pm sent

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:20 pm

A couple more images from around 1982/83 . see also viewtopic.php?f=10&t=27954&p=263816#p263816

Andy G.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:33 pm

Excellent thanks andy the car that you can just see the rear of could be the old rob knox car the blue and yellow 1

col

617sqn · Post by **617sqn** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:13 pm

I've had a look at other photos I have from the same meeting, and I can confirm that this was during the autumn/winter of 1982, as I have an image of an E-type Jaguar which came to grief coming down from Druids and when it came past us up at the top of Paddock Hill bend going back to the paddock, it had "Sponsor me in 83" on the sides. And during a Wendy Wools meeting.

Andy G.

MisterH · Post by **MisterH** » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:36 am

I have just found this forum by accident and in particular this thread and have spent a couple of hours scanning through it. My interest has always been hillclimbs and some of the photos brought back some memories.

grahamdelooze wrote:Kieth do you know who had my car after Tony. I havnt seen any more pictures of it on this thread. After it was black its been painted several times but it ended up red with a white roof.

The answer is I bought it from Tony. I then had it re painted in gold, but later when sharing the car with a friend who owned a Davrian we painted it red with a white roof.

The car ran with a 1120 (which was a hybrid Hartwell motor, with Greetham wedge head and a bit of work by Ian Carter) and Jack Knight box but later with an Ian Carter 1220 and Hewland Mk9 box.

I had the car for about 5 years before it was sold on to a couple of brothers in the South West, sorry I don't remember their name, but I did hear from Ian Toon that it had been rolled and that you had acquired it and were rebuilding it.

driftwood · Post by **driftwood** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:36 pm

With reference to the Coombe Stilleto photo which is the late Barry Reece Maguire the yellow blue car just out of frame is Mike Laws stiletto a car he built himself with hewland mk9 and March 733 uprights

ganderson888 · Post by **ganderson888** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:17 pm

Here's a post made in the Newbie area which

mikedao wrote:thanks for the welcome been a member in the past be 65 soone so i will not be doing a ards test will be doing hillclimb and sprints, trying to find out whoes car i have may be the ex brian davis car
1i got the car off robert knox nice fella
2 who did robert get the car off?=i forgot to ask him
3 was hillclimbed/sprinted late 80s by nick frain/tony oldfield ref p0pular classics sep 1990 pages 68 to 71
4 the car was at torque speed in leicester i think in a bad state i think after a crash at brands hatch 75ish?
5 ref popular classics it said the car had 2-litre engine driven by race driver nick brittan formerly owned by george bevan in the 60s?
6 ref pop classics the car shown the cutouts in the bonnet are the same as brian davis car the catch for the passenger side door
is the same o the drivers side looks to be g15
the scoup for the air intake drivers side rear is the same as brians car
7 please could you allso put this in the space frame area for me thanks DONE!
8 i live in taunton somerset the car will be restored but not by me cant say to much yet thanks mike

mikedao · Post by **mikedao** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:05 pm

graham thank you for doing this i hope to jog a few gents into a reply i will try to get pics thanks again mike

mikedao · Post by **mikedao** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:47 pm

i hope this works

mikedao · Post by **mikedao** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:57 pm

sorry to all it has taken me two days to get photoes on here then mess it up by loading it three times i would not let it beat me
silly old git

feed back would be good thanks mike

Teddie2003 · Post by **Teddie2003** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:45 pm

mikedao wrote:sorry to all it has taken me two days to get photoes on here then mess it up by loading it three times i would not let it beat me
silly old git feed back would be good thanks mike

Well once, twice, three times a Davrian(?) then and looks like another of the Davrian Special saloons that's been re-discovered.

Has it been in the South West long and how much yellow paint is on it below the "red bull type" camo finish?

There used to be a yellow Davrian saloon that was used quite a bit on the SW hills in the late 80's early 90's, by Phil Gleed and Alistair ? Think they were from Frome or somewhere near there.

The old Charles Barter Davrian special saloon was also being used in the CSCC series last year.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:31 pm

mikedao wrote:sorry to all it has taken me two days to get photoes on here then mess it up by loading it three times i would not let it beat me
silly old git feed back would be good thanks mike

Thats ok im sure 1 of the moderators will come along and delete the extra sets of pictures and dont worry you are not alone we have all done it ,glad the car has been rescued and will be great to see it out getting used

col

mikedao · Post by **mikedao** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:33 am

[/img]

teddie 2003 yes you are right this write up popular classics sept 1990 thank you for the info

col thanks again for chiping in thing should fall into place in the next few weeks
working on till i am 70 to pay for it no joke
need the boys to chip in fegards whoes car it is
thanks again mike