Spaceframe Imps

big J · Post by **big J** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:46 pm

Open day? Just say when,I'M THERE.

****post edited to include comment from Kevan McLurg******

Spaceframe Mason Stiletto-writer can recall 10 or so semi-spaceframe cars,no further info on a spaceframe?

stuartbrownsey · Post by **stuartbrownsey** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:16 am

A couple more photo's of the continuation mason spaceframe

stuartbrownsey · Post by **stuartbrownsey** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:31 am

The top two photo's were sent to me by Tim Duffee offering new panels, so there may be more than
one set of moulds for the jedi imp. It looks to me like the wheel base is longer to allow for mid engine setup,
He lists prices on his web site for jarvis imp panels ?

The blue imp is a Davrian and some panels are available

I've contacted Brian who owns the Mason Imp and he's prepared
to let panels be taken from his moulds, not sure of the costs yet
but he would like to re-coupe some of the costs in having the moulds made in
the first place (not cheap)

chris · Post by **chris** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:45 am

tell you what Id love to have a ride in one of the proper spaceframe imps, mines quick for what it is but the weight is stopping it feel ballistic!

Would really convince me to go bike engine!

Cheers
Chris

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:02 am

Les Campbell just sent me some more pics,and exotic ones too!
This is a March F3 with variously a Vaux 16v or BDA/BDG? coupled to a Hewland box, then owned by Kevin Day.
Good man Les,bang on.

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:17 am

Stuart,could you explain what you mean by "continuation",thanks.

Chris,me too!

maguire imp · Post by **maguire imp** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:22 am

The black imp is now in ireland,i have saw it this car was tested at mira many years ago i dont know the reason why but i know it was there,there was others sets of rims on this car made from billet aluminum there were stunning,the jedi imp was featured in ccc in 1994 when it was new,its had quite a few owners now but its lived most of its life in scotland,i believe scotland has had more racing imps since there were made than anywere else in the world, it has undoubtly a wealth of knowledge,in fact the first customers maguire imp was sold in scotland to john o groats now theres something to get you thinking posters

Keith scott

Megapin · Post by **Megapin** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:50 am

Going back to Colin's post on the previous page and current interest in racing space framed cars.
I agree 100% on the interest quickly waining. This has happened before.
The re-surgance of any special saloon/modsports racing is totally reliant on where you can race your cars.
At present these cars can only race in championships like the NW saloons, NSSCC (where I race) , SMC Saloons and the Lyden Championship.
The trouble is that they are totally outclassed by modern machinery if you stick to racing with an imp engine.
Even the most expensive imp engine is unlikely to put out more than about 140bhp whereas most of the cars I have been racing against
in NSSCC put out more than 300bhp. There are two Focus race cars in Scotland both putting out more than 700bhp !
I also agree with Colin in that if you want to race a spaceframed car you need to build a new frame to current regs. ie. tube sizes that comply with current MSA
safety regs and details with adequate wall thicknesses, or you need on old modsports car that you know has been looked after 100% and totally dry stored.
Even then some scrutineers are banning older cars from racing due to old cage sizes.
My own space frame is being powered by a Hyabusa engine as I want a chance of being competitive in whatever class I race in and I know that an imp engine/box
is probably 60kg heavier and will produce 40bhp less.

I have provisionally asked Keith to put me down for a set of panels to clad the spaceframe I have so if we can get a few more orders together it may
be worth his while producing them.

Until I complete the current car I will be racing the spaceframed SC100 pictured below in NSSCC this year.

maguire imp · Post by **maguire imp** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:08 am

Thank u david for your replyin the forum,and your car looks lovely,as i said before i will do anything to help you,i have to cover my costs what ever happens be assured of my 100 per cent commitment to everyone who wants to build there own cars,we need to move forward in a sensible way and get people who really will follow though with there project cars,i have no doubt in my mind that you will

Keith scott

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:24 am

Tim duffy does have another set of moulds, ive spoken to him last week before this thread was opened, the moulds arnt in that much use, but i will keep this post updated if i here any news.

It does look however at least theres may be stuart, keith or Davrian who can do moulds. I suppose its know up to them to come back and let us have some prices.

Looking at stuarts pictures of the spacframe, this is the type of spec that is going to be needed to pass scrutineering on a new car.

I can tottally understand also the sc100 situation with the hayabusa powered car. I know the championship you are on about and its competitive. I think you would struggle to compete especially when your class is upto 1600 cc

Lets see what happens and good to see interest, although i seriously think we are going to strugle for numbers

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:26 am

I taught that suzuki was owned by a chap called andy wilson ,i take it he sold it this is the x humberstone car or is there another

col

stuartbrownsey · Post by **stuartbrownsey** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:29 am

Chris

The new spaceframe is a copy of the old one but using modern spec
tubes with the correct wall thickness, In some historic classes new
designs are banned but a continuation is acceptable if its been made
for safety reasons. If the HTS series ever gets going they will allow
continuations so Brian will be able run this car.The old frame has been retired

A few years ago I watched Knockers Maguire imp win a race outright
against a class field including cosworths and a few caterhams.
I was so excited I nearly wet myself !

Which ever type of engine you use depends where your heart is

Stuart

Richard Claydon · Post by **Richard Claydon** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:39 am

Hi Guys,

following this thread with great interest as my intention is to own a spaceframed Imp within the near future.

I'm sure if someone offered a package, a bit like the kitcar manufacturers do there would be a market (all be it a little limited - but some of the Kitcar guys work on very small volume). I for one would be up for buying a package.

I'm currently building Sylva (Jeremy Phillips) latest offering and all the basic principles are the same. Just imagine this with a full cage and an Imp shaped plastic body!

Cheers

Rich

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:49 am

Yes rich that car your building looks good and i agree it would look good with the imp body on but even better with the imp engine in the back

col

stuartbrownsey · Post by **stuartbrownsey** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:21 pm

I've just found this sketch of the basic dimensions of the mason spaceframe
I would have thought the maquire panels would also fit.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:38 pm

I can see where people are coming from as far as bigger engines are concerned if you want to be competitive in say the nssc or any other series but ,and this is my idea if say there was 12 cars say either full or semi spaceframe car and not just imps ready to race next weekend and all fitted with the stock design block gearbox could be free so up to 1120 cc for our imps and say a few mini's with 1380cc and just say an anglia or the like , then your all fairly well matched as a good 998 imp will give a 1380 mini a good race ,you would end up with some very close racing which is what it was like back in the wendy wools series ,if you want to go down the route of say thunder saloons which i would class the march f3 chassis with imp body fitted then you end up with people who cant afford to spend thousands of pounds getting to the stage where they think ah sod it im not going to race and so this is why we are where we are today with only a hand full of imps racing ,dont get me wrong an imp can still win races as leo done last season,and rob done at lydden ,i will be out racing this year with semsec out classed and out paced by a lot of cars but in a grid of 20 cars be somewhere in the middle with the smallest engine and rob will be up in the top 4 cars as he runs 1120 so if you fancy coming to watch how quick an imp can be check out the dates at http://www.semsec.org.uk and roll on the hundreadthousand series

col

SimonBenoy · Post by **SimonBenoy** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:43 pm

Performance wise, my Rawlson in its final season was 1120cc injected with a 4 speed lowered 3rd and 4th gerabox geared for a top speed of about 110mph with an lsd. I ran soft slicks for hillclimbs/sprints, 7s and 9s I think. The engine produced about 126 brake and the weight was approx 360kg. At Santa Pod, it did a 13.5 with exactly 100 finish speed.
Aerodynamics weren't ideal and I didn't take either the handling or the brakes to a particularly high spec but it was still great fun. I once did a photoshoot at one of the airfield sites and the windscreen went wobbly at high speed as I didn't have a central brace. I sold this car to Leo and he has now moved it on again as he got the Davrian imp which is probably easier to use for circuit racing.

I will try to post some action pics if I can find any but most of the ones I have were taken by others and I don't have electronic copies.

Cheers -Simon

maguire imp · Post by **maguire imp** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:46 pm

I would love to compete to

colin find out about it for me thanks,the greatest miracles comes from the smallest of things

Keith scott

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:56 pm

Simon i think your old rawlson will be back on track soon as the chap who has it now is the 1 who built leo's davrian for him and has raced an imp before and i have heard trough the grape vine that he is after an engine and box ..

col

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:13 pm

regulation is going to dictate the design of new frames to a certain extent. Ive built and repaired space frame cars and true spaceframe chassis using many small tubes that are bronze welded are very time consuming and difficult to repair. You are better building what i would call a multi tubular design like stuarts done and try to keep it simple. this would greatly reduce the cost of a frame.I would like to think it would be better to incorporate as many imp parts in the car even if the body has never seen an imp at least it keeps it impish.ill post some pics of my car and will help anyone needing dimmensions.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:26 pm

Welcome on board Graham

stuartbrownsey · Post by **stuartbrownsey** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:37 pm

Graham

I can't claim any credit for the new spaceframe. Its all Brians
work with the help of a good freind of his. I'm just doing the engine
and any machining requirements

Stuart

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:38 pm

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:43 pm

Hi stuart has the front been designed to take the standard pressed steel suspensinon and steering rack mounting.

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:48 pm

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:02 pm

stuartbrownsey · Post by **stuartbrownsey** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:03 pm

Graham

Yes the car is all imp based as per the original

Stuart

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:07 pm

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:10 pm

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:21 pm

Did you get the PM i sent you. thanks

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:27 pm

Jeez,good man Graham.

There's just something about that blue and white one that turns my crank

****post edited to include comments from Kevan Mclurg******

Donington-white Maguire Imp is Sue Davis 850 class(?)

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:49 pm

replied to pm
the blue and white car was andy ciakovs. its heavily cut away saloon with simple tube arangement from the cage to pick up points.
a good way of doing a rusty lower half shell

stuartbrownsey · Post by **stuartbrownsey** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:03 pm

Graham

Do you use your car ?

Stuart

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:15 pm

grahamdelooze wrote:replied to pm
the blue and white car was andy ciakovs. its heavily cut away saloon with simple tube arangement from the cage to pick up points.
a good way of doing a rusty lower half shell

Did you section the front bulkhead,Graham?I can visualise how,with the tubular supports,the front wishbone mount can be set at the desired height,but what about the rack mount and rear,front wishbone mounts,they'd still be at standard height?

This was the kind of stuff I asked Col about,but I'm having trouble picturing in my head how some of it would be done.

TTK 25L · Post by **TTK 25L** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:08 pm

grahamdelooze wrote:

Graham, have you got any more photos of the Morris Minor on the left of the photo, it looks like Nick Manns old turbo V8 monster from the early 1980s going by the colour scheme?

Cheers

Martin

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:46 pm

Watch this to get the blood pumping

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:48 pm

I dont use my car but my lad is 16 soon and showing interest so it may have to get done.
I didnt have anything to do with andies blue and white car but it would be easy to make.
the minor is nick manns but no more photos sorry

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:52 pm

now that is a quick mini on u toob

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:57 pm

Yes but probly 1480 cc and manion and cutting were on his tail

col

grahamdelooze · Post by **grahamdelooze** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:59 pm

yes but his engines at the wrong end

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:23 pm

Brilliant,Col.Who's got a time machine?

Graham,depends on your definition of easy.

I need to get me a close look at one of these.

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:28 pm

come and have a look at mine later this year when i race at mondello ,leo cant wait to kick my but butt i have an excuse already he knows the track better than me, so i may have to let the older rooney have a spin,im all fired up now after watching pat shame his car broke which was quiet rare as the prep on his car was fantastic

col

speeddemon · Post by **speeddemon** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:30 pm

wernt that a BDA, i will have to check , Wow them boys were quick, dont know about the others but Baldwins still at it.

Heres a story and this is no bull. From a good friend who knows the man. Theres been a new mini built for the circuit and its the dogs of the dogs body wise etc etc. Its got a v8 powertec in the front. The words were from the man, that they stopped counting after £200,000. First practice it drops a link on the front suspension, The last i heard it left the rd and went backward into a barrier. Huge money. Thats not bull sh** either.

Meltdown · Post by **Meltdown** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:38 pm

Heres a story and this is no bull. From a good friend who knows the man. Theres been a new mini built for the circuit and its the dogs of the dogs body wise etc etc. Its got a v8 powertec in the front. The words were from the man, that they stopped counting after £200,000. First practice it drops a link on the front suspension, The last i heard it left the rd and went backward into a barrier. Huge money. Thats not bull sh** either.

Is that the green one with more wings than a 747 I saw racing at silverstone late last year?

Great Grandstand footage from Thruxton BTW!

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:49 pm

colin rooney wrote:come and have a look at mine later this year when i race at mondello ,leo cant wait to kick my but butt i have an excuse already he knows the track better than me, so i may have to let the older rooney have a spin,im all fired up now after watching pat shame his car broke which was quiet rare as the prep on his car was fantastic

col

Dont worry,I'll be there all right.

Might have a shandy too.

Meltdown · Post by **Meltdown** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:50 pm

[quote]Rob knox ,ray chassis x pat mannion stiletto
with the young miss knox getting the feel for her new imp ready to take on her dad in a few years time

Is this the same car as seen in the Grandstand footage?

big J · Post by **big J** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:54 pm

There's something funky going on here and I cant quite figure it out
Raised the floor and chopped the bulkhead?

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:55 pm

colin rooney · Post by **colin rooney** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:59 pm

No john is had a 3 inch waiste line chop

chris · Post by **chris** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:00 pm

I like the way that white one is done at the front, Im thinking thats the style Ill do mine so there's still a little bit of arch for wet weather since Ill be driving it on the road etc etc.

I thought he had just cut sections off the original arches and then a few plates around the shock position then the struts down the centre for the arm mounts??

I likey anyhow!

edit.... Colin wheres it had its chop?