Spaceframe Imps

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Imps and Imp based Motorsport stuff from the olden days and current
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Piers Phillips
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Piers Phillips » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:29 am

Image

Dr Enderby
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colin rooney
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:49 pm

Randywanger wrote:Saw this on Retro Rides

Image

Image

8)
this car is forsale on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hillman-Imp-S ... 43c242895d
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ImpRookie » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:36 pm

Piers Phillips wrote:Image

Dr Enderby

Anymore information on this little car? What kind space frame is it?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:38 pm

old irish gt race scroll down to 2 picture
http://www.motorsport.ie/old-gt-race-fr ... ello-park/
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by mapman » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:11 am

I see this one finally sold at it's second attempt.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321262816932? ... 1423.l2649

Anyone here?
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Piers Phillips
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Piers Phillips » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:50 am

Awesome video Col,
Really enjoyed watching it.
Need to get a few of these dreamers on the forum out there with their Imps next year and get some decent grids again. Looks like the CSCC is going to surprise a few people and will hopefully bring a load of the upto 1 litre cars out !

By the way. Sold the Ginetta :-)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:27 pm

yeh the old man was going well until someone put oil down he done a full 360 on it out of the camera shot was well pissed of with the flag man that day as he still says he could have taken the overall win

col
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doc knutsen
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:29 pm

ImpRookie wrote:
Piers Phillips wrote:Image

Dr Enderby

Anymore information on this little car? What kind space frame is it?
It is DE 1, the first Maguire Imp made for my colleague David Enderby. It was never right, and ended its UK career against an earth bank at Thruxton. The space frame was sold to me, when I purchased David's second Maguire car, the Chamois coupe. The damaged space frame was sold to Oivind Larsen here in Norway, who straightened it and repaired it...but then bought a Sports 2000 Lola, losing interest in the Maguire car. He had also purchased the rolling chassis ex-Ivor Goodwin car from me,this was the former Chrysler Sweden Gr 2 racer, and was planning to fit the running gear from this car into the repaired Maguire frame. Having stored the frame for more than 20 years, he finally scrapped it....and then I bought the remains of the ex-Goodwin car back, incorporating the bits into my 2006 Historic racer, Pumpkin I (in Hartwell colours). Due to HTP issues over the use of a Mk I body shell this car eventually morphed into my present bright yellow Period G2 racing Imp.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Lars Hagermark » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:05 pm

doc knutsen wrote:...this was the former Chrysler Sweden Gr 2 racer
Was that the one that former ABBA-drummer Tommy "Slim" Borgudd was driving here in the early or mid 70's?
Overseas contact, Sweden. -69 Cali (998), 2 -64 Imps in need of "some" work.
Life is full of solutions waiting to be found.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:15 pm

Lars Hagermark(DJH705) wrote:
doc knutsen wrote:...this was the former Chrysler Sweden Gr 2 racer
Was that the one that former ABBA-drummer Tommy "Slim" Borgudd was driving here in the early or mid 70's?
Yes indeed, the very same. Sold to Mats Warg of Falun, and then to me in 1980.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by knocker » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:48 pm

Piers Phillips wrote:Awesome video Col,
Really enjoyed watching it.
Need to get a few of these dreamers on the forum out there with their Imps next year and get some decent grids again. Looks like the CSCC is going to surprise a few people and will hopefully bring a load of the upto 1 litre cars out !
Well judging from the race programme for next year Silverstone,Brands,Donington,Oulton Park. They won't be a lot of 1 litre cars out !!!!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by stuartbrownsey » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:44 pm

Bit of a negative attitude Rob

We've done all apart from Oulten Park and had a great time with our Imp.
Ok I admit the car is a bit under powerd against a lot of the others running
BDG's etc but theres always been a good race to be had. Not many cars have
the corner speed we have its just down the straights we have problems.

It only takes a few more small capacity cars to come and play (ie you) to make
a good championship even better. Maybe now the SEMSEC championship has folded
a few more will join in the fun.

Were planning on been out next year and Piers will have his car finished (Its absolutly stunning !!)
Colin Rooney has started his rebuild so that will be three in the future.
Couple more and it will be happy days.

Stuart (Rodwell Motorsport)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:30 pm

Hi, mmmmmm I think if people get on board this will be a great chamionship. Stuart has run consistently in midfield against alot more powerfull machines. I think you would enjoy it Rob and maybe you could bring some of the people who you race with down there.

We should be out as well, we did quite alot of testing on some new aero but unfortunatley our last race ended with fuel be full of foam out of the tank and a broken wills ring.

Definatley out with hopefully both cars as the Mini is ready, we do need some wets though at the minute 7.0/20/13 or 7.2 if anyone sees any for sale. The hillman is hopefully going to have so new bits on the engine.

Stuart that part I was telling you about had been put back a few weeks due to work load , but hopefully its being machined next week yessss. let you know when it comes. Could also comprise with a larger capacity power unit as well, but thats a bit off yet!

be posititve about the racing, hopefully piers will be out with his full head of unique hair and colin swearing his head off hahahah.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Piers Phillips » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:15 pm

Hi All,
Good call on the Hair there Mike. At least I have some still remaining to coiffure !
Now most of you on here know me and probably understand I dont normally pull any punches so you will either understand what I'm about to say or you can lump it. I dont reall care either way.

I am getting sick and tired of hearing everyone bleet on with sackless excuses why they wont come out to play in the CSCC. The fact is when there is not a championship to compete in then everyone will blame everyone else for the series closing down. The series needs supported and surely people realise that if they cant be arsed to come out and join in then this will obviously be the case, and their precious cars will be worth considerably less than they are at present. The rubbish about the circuits is a very lame excuse. Real race drivers want to race on any circuit at any time. BIg , Small, fast , slow , mickey mouse, dangerous or just plain expensive it doesnt matter!
There is no reason to think the cars will not be fullfilling on the faster circuits, it just requires a diferent discipline and application.
Just look at the onboards from the smaller engined cars in the HSCC at these venues. Truly brilliant stuff indeed.

Hugo and David are in particular trying very hard to make the series work and are especially keen on the upto 1040cc class being a success as its where they get the most nostalgic interest from. They have some great ideas and future plans that will benifit the series massively in years to come. But then if any of you had managed to drag yourselves to the AGM you would have know that. Well supported lads ...NOT !



I'm not going to say anymore but if you watch the link and see the two 998cc cars racing on the fastest circuit in the country and not want to drive yours like that then you shouldnt own a bl***y race car in the first place !

See you all at Silverstone !
Imp024
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:36 pm

Thats a quality clip, that is. and my favourite. The part where the 3 cars pass the grass verge and theres 2 spectators just stood there amazes me every time. My hairs also is very thick and i use the same growing products as you hahahah.

I do agree piers however being honest im not a race car driver, probably the only one who will own up to that. But i want to stay involved and compete so i will do so as and when its possible. There are many in my situation but have failed to have a go. Even stuart hasnt had a go in the car yet and has Martin to drive it. Thats not a problem by the way but there are lots of people out there who own these type of cars just cos they wanted one and they will never race.

However if your a competitor theres no better place to come hang out and race your car if it fits this series. I dont think there has been one crash except for baby bertha incident which was obviously a broken part. So yes there is no excuse. Get involved the tracks that are pencilled in are great. I personally dont like silverstone as it just didnt involve lots of turns and corners and i much prefer a track that twists and gets the car going around abit better than 2 straights that are very fast.

rgds
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by SimonBenoy » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:36 pm

I don't like Silverstone Club in a tin top Imp, but the GP is an entirely different matter and is (IMHO) one of the best circuits. OK, the cars we race with struggle with multiple changes of direction whereas the Imps lap it up, probably won't be so much difference with the higher spec cars in your series, but the spaceframe Imps would probably still be the quickest cars through Maggotts/Beckets, through Club/Vale and the corners just after the F1 start/finish and at the end of the Welly straight - all places where we catch back up to the Cortinas etc. in the HSCC. We might not be able to get past, but we can bother them a bit :lol: :lol:
At Thruxton I managed an 87mph lap in qualifying on our treaded crossplies with 600kg of car and our less than ideal aero, so a spaceframe would be seriously quick.
Donington is more of a power circuit, in my experience, due the hills and slow corners, but still good fun.

Hope you get more entries next season (us too, of course)...

Cheers - Simon
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by stuartbrownsey » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:31 pm

Image
Image
Image
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Stakhanovite » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:09 pm

Yip, those 998 Maguires could give 1300 BDA spaceframe minis a hard time eh. That Baldwin mini had about 190 bhp I think.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by SimonBenoy » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:11 pm

About the same as the 1600 Lotus Cortinas then....
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:00 pm

The BDA had nowhere near that HP :)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:16 pm

speeddemon wrote:The BDA had nowhere near that HP :)
Oh yes, they did. The engines in question are, of course, BDHs, not BDAs. David Enderby's BDH, as fitted to the Karmann Ghia clone after he abandoned the 1120 Imp engines, was dynoed at 192 BHP. Unfortunately, the engine had no torque, it was all top end.
In 1972, the 1300 Alfa GTAs pushed out some 160BHP. The reply from Ford, in the form of the BD derivatives was another step up the ladder, their four-valve cylinder heads allowing the engines to breathe even better at high revs.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:36 pm

If you read my note its in reference to the BDA, which is the engine in question. When Baldwin raced his mini it was a BDA, Estimated power was around 135hp. Im pretty certain imps at 998cc had nowehere near that power. However if someone can produce genuine dyno results then its a change of opinion. If were talking power and genuine dyno results, speak with Andy or Stuart they will confirm power from an imp 998cc. Anything above 100hp is very good 105 is superb and 112 breaks the bank balance unless you rob banks that is. The SCA engine was one of th best 998cc power units for hp. From information which is trusted they were actually around 120hp then incread in cc to produce 130hp

Hopefully our new package will produce power to around 115hp but you will know more once it all arrives.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:39 pm

ps Piers engine is actually 250hp with full head of hair hahhahaha
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by greenbeast » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:24 pm

stuartbrownsey wrote: A glimpse of our car
Well, you said that in pictures - and more.

Lovely !!!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:11 pm

speeddemon wrote:If you read my note its in reference to the BDA, which is the engine in question. When Baldwin raced his mini it was a BDA, Estimated power was around 135hp. Im pretty certain imps at 998cc had nowehere near that power. However if someone can produce genuine dyno results then its a change of opinion. If were talking power and genuine dyno results, speak with Andy or Stuart they will confirm power from an imp 998cc. Anything above 100hp is very good 105 is superb and 112 breaks the bank balance unless you rob banks that is. The SCA engine was one of th best 998cc power units for hp. From information which is trusted they were actually around 120hp then incread in cc to produce 130hp

Hopefully our new package will produce power to around 115hp but you will know more once it all arrives.
The BDA was 1600cc, like the BDD (Formula Atlantic spec engine) The 1300 version was called the BDH, (as used in the Baldwin car, and in David Enderby's "Karmann Ghia". The BD engine series, initiated with the 1600BDA, spawned a hole series of engines, from 1000ccm to full two-litre (BDG). Ford went to the trouble of homologating an 1150 variant for the Escort in the mid-Seventies, so as to enable the Escorts to win the 1150, 1300, 1600 and 2-litre categories. However, Group 2 disappeared as an Internaional class after the "Fuel Crisis" of 1973/74.

Incidentally, last April we dynoed one of our locally built 1120 Imp engines at 117 BHP, running a conventional distributor (no electronic ignitions for FIA spec Imps) and twin DHLAs. And I was there to watch it.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by knocker » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:42 pm

Piers Phillips wrote:Hi All,
Good call on the Hair there Mike. At least I have some still remaining to coiffure !
Now most of you on here know me and probably understand I dont normally pull any punches so you will either understand what I'm about to say or you can lump it. I dont reall care either way.

I am getting sick and tired of hearing everyone bleet on with sackless excuses why they wont come out to play in the CSCC. The fact is when there is not a championship to compete in then everyone will blame everyone else for the series closing down. The series needs supported and surely people realise that if they cant be arsed to come out and join in then this will obviously be the case, and their precious cars will be worth considerably less than they are at present[u]. The rubbish about the circuits is a very lame excuse. Real race drivers want to race on any circuit at any time. BIg , Small, fast , slow , mickey mouse, dangerous or just plain expensive it doesnt matter![/u
]There is no reason to think the cars will not be fullfilling on the faster circuits, it just requires a diferent discipline and application.
Just look at the onboards from the smaller engined cars in the HSCC at these venues. Truly brilliant stuff indeed.

Hugo and David are in particular trying very hard to make the series work and are especially keen on the upto 1040cc class being a success as its where they get the most nostalgic interest from. They have some great ideas and future plans that will benifit the series massively in years to come. But then if any of you had managed to drag yourselves to the AGM you would have know that. Well supported lads ...NOT !



I'm not going to say anymore but if you watch the link and see the two 998cc cars racing on the fastest circuit in the country and not want to drive yours like that then you shouldnt own a bl***y race car in the first place !

See you all at Silverstone !
Imp024



The rubbish about the circuits is a very lame excuse. Real race drivers want to race on any circuit at any time. Big , Small, fast , slow , mickey mouse, dangerous or just plain expensive it doesn't matter!

I can't see how you can be so "judgemental"!!
Circumstances differ for many number of things, to say "just plain expensive doesn't matter", is surely a totally head in the sand statement?? There are any number of considerations to take into account for the competitor to consider on a week by week; year by year basis .Mostly based on finances/expenses. These considerations differ for everybody ;
family commitments, mortgages, jobs/work, skills on prepping (putting work out to trustworthy capable people needs paying for) adding to overall picture, logistics for getting to events obviously add more costs.
It surely free choice to own a racing car to use when you want too, when expenses allow, (they cost nothing to keep). The "impoverished" owner is probably more frustrated by the fact that they have a car that's capable but there finances do not allow. That frustration would also carry over to the potential of losing a championship/series to run in."Real "racing drivers in this circumstance are only mostly having a "play" at it, with a view to enjoying an aspect of their life as best they can, when they can.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:49 pm

Have to say well said rob im with you 100 %

col
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Piers Phillips » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:23 pm

At last some reaction and some commets....Brilliant.
No offense intended Rob... You know me. Just pushing a few buttons :lol:

Question, If the class actually had a championship or prize to fight for do we think more people would do more of the rounds ?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Stakhanovite » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:51 pm

I should of course said "BDH" that's the correct designation for the 1300 BD series engine. 190 BHP at high revs. Short stroke Screamer. Baldwins mini was definitely a 1300 BDH, I saw it race at Castle Combe back in the 80s.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Megapin » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:01 pm

At last some reaction and some commets....Brilliant.
No offense intended Rob... You know me. Just pushing a few buttons :lol:

Question, If the class actually had a championship or prize to fight for do we think more people would do more of the rounds ?

I don't think a championship prize will make any difference to the people who are competing in CSSC Special Saloons because
I believe we are all there as true enthusiasts only interested in racing.
Doesn't matter if your first or last as long as you have somebody close to race.
I was the one who suggested scrapping all the classes and let everyone just race with no prizes or trophies.
I fully uphold Rob's views that the economics of motor racing nowadays are the main factor of when are where you compete.
For instance last year's Silverstone cost me £170 towing fuel, £50 race fuel, entry about £275 ? and that's not counting taking
time off work to get there, hotel bills or wear and tear/damage to the car. Castle Coombe was even worse !
This year has been a hard year in my business and I have only been able to commit to one of the CSSC rounds because of cost.
I have, as many others do, raced at several closer to home meetings which don't cost as much for travelling or time off work.
Unfortunately I live in the far north of the country and no one really wants to travel up here to Croft or Knockhill.
Silverstone is a 5.5hr drive for me and Castle Coombe was 9hrs. but I did them both last year.
In the good old days of modsports there was start money paid which unfortunately is no longer with us and will never return.

My suggestion would be to run a historic section and a modern section together to allow up to 1993 in historics and later and newly
built spaceframed silhouette cars to run in the modern section. This would almost give two races in one and could be started on a delayed
start as per the Mondello race that Col linked to. Would also widen the scope for the entries.
Well that's my rant for the day, now back to work to earn some money for next years racing !
DAvy
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Great chit chat here.

Was actually just speaking with a friend who bought lots of bd stuff off pete and he confirmed that the black mini had neither a bda/bdh. Apparantley the blocks were ally custom castings with the BD heads, gorden allen one peice crank on mini box so he says neither really. He also has Petes 1500cc which is now sat in his maquire mini looking forward to that coming out.

Im wondering why these 998cc imps could compete with a 190hp car driven by a top top driver. The reason I wonder is because my spaceframed forster chasiss has a 4age 200hp and not being funny if you ask stuart who has the quickest spaceframe imp at the minute which is superb and well developed, its no match for my car and being honest im a total rubbish driver.

With regards to competing in the cscc, just try and get out and race if possible. thats all you can do.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by SimonBenoy » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:42 pm

An Imp powered car would only be able to compete with something more powerful at certain circuits, in much the same way that the Imp HRSR cars are much further up the field sometimes. So at places like Donington or Silverstone National, not even close. But Brands Indy, Cadwell and Silverstone GP (yes, really) they will be closer. And of course, the old Castle Combe layout and Thruxton also suit the lighter Imp based cars. But if the bigger engined spaceframes are also down to 350kg, and have 200bhp, then Imp power will struggle to compete.

Just a few guesses, some of it might be right!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:18 pm

HI simon sorry I got to correct you, my mini weighs 520kg with me in. Im 70kgs. The imp doesnt live with my mini. Stuarts car is very very quick but the mini laps anything upto 3 seconds quicker and thats with me driving. If my man who owned it drove the car its probably 5-6 seconds quicker. Your little steel imp is a flyer and it makes good inroads against the cars you race, But a fully sorted spaceframe racer will be way way ahead of the imp. The performance, power to weight handling full slicks etc etc make up a feirce combination. Stuarts car battles way up the field gainst more powerfull machinery which s testament to how well the cars sorted.

As regards the Baldwin mini. I was looking at some history on Gorden Allen and it was as my mate Endaf says. The blocks were cast by/for him on his design he grafted the Bd head on. Gorden Allen sold his crank company in 80 and died in 84. A very clever man
who did many unique engines including a 2 cylinder 850 which was half an engine which was left from a blown up 1700bD as well as grafting a jag head on a mini engne.

that clears that up then ;)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by SimonBenoy » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:32 am

So your car is 450kg - Stuart's won't be much lighter then, hence why he won't be able to compete.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Dogsbody » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:06 am

Just enjoyed reading the discussion on BHP, made my morning :lol:

Pretty sure they could extract 180-190 BHP from a Lotus Cortina engine.
I was getting 140 odd out of a 1660 XFlow engine back in the early 80's

How things move on, my 1700cc Puma engine is unmodified and puts out 159 bhp on the rolling road.
Its much much more reliable than the highly tuned Xflow and nicer to drive as its not a peaky power delivery.

Which is why I didn't even consider tuning a Imp engine for the Stiletto.
A nice reliable standard Japanese bike engine, 900cc and 125 bhp :wink:
70 Sunbeam Stiletto (again)125bhp Kawasaki Ninja power.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by TTK 25L » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:23 am

Mike, Stuart's car is around 100kgs heavier than your's, and I am heavier than you too but I am working on that!
It isn't set up properly yet either, the sping rates aren't far off but the corner weights are miles off but that isn't holding us back too much but there is more to come for sure.
Plus your Mini will have much more torque being a 1600 than the 1040 in Stuart's car.

Martin
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Piers Phillips
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Piers Phillips » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:40 am

Good stuff Martin,
I know my car is about 100 Kgs lighter than Stuarts and with such a small amout of horsepower available that will make a huge difference in performance. Simon Benoy is completely correct with his comments regarding the Imp being competitive at certain circuits. The sooner we get more cars out to play amongst the bigger engined cars the better. I firmly belive that now the class structure has been revisited and sorted out that we will see more smaller engined cars coming out to play in the future. Im just waiting on my engine and the build will continue. Not sure about you but I reckon old "Sticks" Brownsey is now milking the whole injury thing. I reckon he'll be on Jeremy Kyle soon :lol:
Either that or the bird doing his Physio is smokin hot and he just wants more attention..... God I hope its not a man! :shock:

The Castle Combe championship I reckon will be a great place to run the cars between the CSCC events... Maybe we could get a bit of an inter Imp championship going. Sponsored by RODWELL obviously !
We should really push for a Thruxton race in the future as I reckon there could be a big surprise in store for a few. Poke , poke, poke :)

Im off again to the states on New years day for Daytona test but will be back again mid Jan to press on getting the Maguire finished...
Imp024
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Gaffer
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Gaffer » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:06 pm

Martin, how about getting some more of your 'in car videos' on here for everyone to see. It's a shame we can't see the 'flames' out of the exhaust on the gear changes :lol: I think it demonstrates the difference in engine sizes and comparisons as described in the above threads.
I loved this Vid :)


more this year please.
Pete
Trying to keep the faith.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Martin you have misread the situation here. Let me just put it back into context. I was saying that if baldwins mini was 190hp there aint no way and id bet my house on it that no imp would be that close. Back then, when competitors started switching to more powerfull engines the a series powered cars and the imp powered spaceframes became less and less competitive and faded away.
Please I im an honest guy and you are a far better driver than I. If you reduced the weight on the imp and lost 3 stone the mini would comfortably win. Its like my mini against simon holloways lotus the power and straight line speed on todays circuits will leave the imp for dead. Endaf told me his mini is comfortably 3-4 seconds quicker than his imp. The mini was straight out the blocks 185hp kad 16 valve

Anyhow piers whats the class change about, wheres the small cars and who pleasse :)
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TTK 25L
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by TTK 25L » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:44 pm

Mike, I agree that the Imps will be left for dead on the straights behind the the bigger engined Minis, all I was indicating is that our car is a little slower than it should be at the moment and that a super light Maguire Imp would be closer. I think the Imps will still have better corner speed and better under braking than the Minis due to weight distribution etc.
I also think a lot of the power figures quoted 'in the day' were total b****cks for both the Imps and the Minis!! :lol:
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