Spaceframe Imps

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Imps and Imp based Motorsport stuff from the olden days and current
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skamanfrank
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by skamanfrank » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:45 am

Found this on youtube:



Short but sweet
Cheers
Frank
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ganderson888 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:08 pm

V Good Frank

i thought it was Teeside and was waiting to see FAF to come the other way and try & take off :lol: :lol: :lol:
Graham Anderson
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by skamanfrank » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:06 pm

Haha, have some more from the same:


and
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by maguire imp » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:06 pm

Its def not a maguire imp
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speeddemon
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:09 am

To very smart cars. Whys it not maquire?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Meltdown » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:01 pm

I've been scanning some old film photos and came across these. Enjoy :D
SF1.jpg
Ryton or Stoke plant National, 1987/88
SF2.jpg
SF3.jpg
Curborough sprint, the day before or after Ryton or Stoke NW. Can't remember which.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by HARRY » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:59 pm

DRAM-.jpg
Ian Forrest & Harry Simpson at Knockhill Race Meeting 1985
Ian Forrest & the Maguire Stiletto ex Tony Bridge Car & Harry Simpson Maguire Stiletto ex David Endeby's Car.
Picture taken at Knockhill Race Meeting about 1985. Both cars are identical 998 full race Andy Chessman engines and Jack Knight gearboxes
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by gunarone » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:22 am

Megapin wrote:Space frame I am currently building.
Designed to run Hyabusa longitudinally in rear driving a Cosworth Diff.
Hoping to clad in Maguire Stiletto panels from Keith.

Image
Hello There,
Did you buy this from a guy called Mike Brace? as it was for sale end of last year September-October timeish. was built by some company in Suffolk I believe. certainly looks the part.
Best regards, George.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:29 pm

isnt this mega pins chassis? guy up durhm way
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doc knutsen
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:32 pm

Engine bay with no triangulation...and curved tube as structural chassis members? Upsetting a few of the basics of frame design, there. And why on Earth put the spring/damper units so high up? Center of gravity too low, maybe?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Duk » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:42 pm

F1 cars have the shocks in a similar position so cant be all bad!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Megapin » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:48 pm

Thanks for your chassis design insight doc knutson.! Wish I'd spoken to you before I designed any of my cars.
Davy

ps. hoop brace is removable and is not in place in ths photo.
Shockers mounted above the drive line allow ducted hot air to escape above the diffuser without creating
a bottle neck around the shocker. This means you can get the diffuser to sweep upwards above the lower wishbones
without being restricted by the shocker position. Most of the single seaters I have owned and worked on have shockers above the engine
position to benefit air flow. It also makes the shockers position more tunable by easily altering pushrod lengths
and angles without having to vary spring rates very much.
Rads are mounted in the two curved sidepods to the rear of the seats which also form the wheel arches.
Regarding engine bay triangulation have a look at the Z cars rear engine bay layout which is very similar
and seems to work quite well. Also the spaceframe is made from good quality seamless tube and I've never had a chassis
I built fall to bits or cause flexing problems. Engine is semi stressed solidly mounted to the main hoop and bracing as
it is in the bike. (which also has curved tubes !!!) The curved tube layout allows the Hyabusa dry sump pan to sit flat on the floor
without any diagonal restrictions.
I suppose the only way I will be able to prove my point will be to get the Stiletto finished and putting in some good race times !

pps. If you want to criticise my designs don't do it on here. I will be at the Mallory Park Modsports revival meeting hopefully with an entry
in my Elan, come and see me then. I will also be doing all of the NSSCC rounds this year and possibly some NW rounds and may even get
out with this car if I can get time to get it completed. Come and say hello !
Modsports Suzuki SC100,
Modsports Spaceframed Stiletto
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Meltdown » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:56 pm

/\/\Race bikes actually became too stiff in recent times so are generally engineered with a wee bit of flex. Coming up with your own chassis design has to be applauded, others will build them their own way and as everyone knows the BS stops when the flag drops. Have fun and go for it!
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doc knutsen
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:20 pm

[quote="Megapin"]Thanks for your chassis design insight doc knutson.! Wish I'd spoken to you before I designed any of my cars.
Davy

Sorry if I upset you. But when you decide to publish your design on a world-wide forum, you must expect to face some critics.

ps. hoop brace is removable and is not in place in ths photo.
Shockers mounted above the drive line allow ducted hot air to escape above the diffuser without creating
a bottle neck around the shocker. This means you can get the diffuser to sweep upwards above the lower wishbones
without being restricted by the shocker position.

I am perfectly aware of the aerodynamic reasons for putting the mass of the spring/damper assembly up in the air.
I just do not think the aero is sufficiently efficient on a low-powered special saloon, that it benefits from moving to a much
higher CoG.

Most of the single seaters I have owned and worked on have shockers above the engine
position to benefit air flow. It also makes the shockers position more tunable by easily altering pushrod lengths
and angles without having to vary spring rates very much.

Single seaters are designed to be much more aero dependant than racing cars that are limited by running a production car shaped body shell.
I simply think it is not worth the trouble, certainly not in my experience, for this kind of car. In special saloons at club level, the KISS princople applies
still.

Rads are mounted in the two curved sidepods to the rear of the seats which also form the wheel arches.
Regarding engine bay triangulation have a look at the Z cars rear engine bay layout which is very similar
and seems to work quite well. Also the spaceframe is made from good quality seamless tube and I've never had a chassis
I built fall to bits or cause flexing problems.

Chassis falling to bits is not the problem with lack of torsional stiffness. What you do, when designing a chassis without proper triangulation, is to introduce
a fifth spring on the car, that is, the frame itself. If you strive to optimize suspension geometry, or indeed underbody aerodynamics, you will waste a whole lot of it, if the chassis flexes.
Study the frame of a Mallock Clubmans car, for an example of lightweight, properly triangulated,extremely stiff multi-tubular frame. You do not see many modern high-
performance cars designed around a ladder-type frame - or a Cooper-type frame, come to that. There is are very good reasons for that.

Engine is semi stressed solidly mounted to the main hoop and bracing as
it is in the bike. (which also has curved tubes !!!) The curved tube layout allows the Hyabusa dry sump pan to sit flat on the floor
without any diagonal restrictions.

A curved tube will react by increasing its curvature if loaded in compression, and by trying to straighten itself if you load it in tension. It has no place in any high-performance
vehicle, let alone a racing car. It ranks right up there with suspension rod ends loaded in single shear, when it comes to engineering crimes against nature.

I suppose the only way I will be able to prove my point will be to get the Stiletto finished and putting in some good race times !

Just ponder how much quicker, and more predictable, it would be with a stable platform.

pps. If you want to criticise my designs don't do it on here.

See the first part of my reply.

I will be at the Mallory Park Modsports revival meeting hopefully with an entry
in my Elan, come and see me then.

Send me an air ticket for the UK, and I will :o)
Regards,
Doc Knutsen ( not -son, I am not Swedish)
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Duk
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Duk » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:28 pm

I wouldn't exactly say a hyabusa engine is low powered :lol:

Im not even pretending to know what Im talking about (apart from I've built my own) but have you actually built one yourself and successfully tested and raced it Doc?

Surely an ariel atom with its curved tube shouldnt work well then, or do you mean smaller sharp curves in general?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:19 pm

Duk wrote:I wouldn't exactly say a hyabusa engine is low powered :lol:

Im not even pretending to know what Im talking about (apart from I've built my own) but have you actually built one yourself and successfully tested and raced it Doc?

Surely an ariel atom with its curved tube shouldnt work well then, or do you mean smaller sharp curves in general?
The cars that I have designed and built have had more than 500BHP in fairly light chassis (sub-700kg for the C2 car, and even less for the BOSS car that was based on a Reynard F3000 monocoque.) The enginesthat my cars have run, include such as a 2-liter BDG, a Hart 420R and different versions of the BDT turbocharged Ford engine that were originally developed for the RS200 Gr B rally cars.

My C2 car has won international races (Interserie) and set lap records. Various other cars have run well in Scandinavia, since 1976. If you want to read more, check out my son Matt's web site, www.shag.no

If the Ariel Atom ran against a properly designed racing car, i believe it would not work particularly well. It is light, it has fair power and a fair amount of rubber on the ground. It is a track day car, I believe.
Oh, and incidentallly,how do you rate its aerodynamics? About on par with its chassis design, I would say...:o)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Duk » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:52 pm

Interesting stuff Doc, will have a look through that site :) I didnt mean to sound like you didnt know what you were talking about if it came across that way Im just happy to learn!
Ash
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Greetham » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:25 pm

megapin it looks very nice mate like it lots good luck on your build will be nice to see it done at some point all the best paul 8)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:29 am

Duk wrote:Interesting stuff Doc, will have a look through that site :) I didnt mean to sound like you didnt know what you were talking about if it came across that way Im just happy to learn!
Ash
No offence taken, I am too old for that. :D
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Megapin » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:44 am

Apologies Doc for the name error.
We'll just have to see how it competes against other spaceframed cars when it gets out on the track.
Thanks for the positive feedback Paul.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:38 pm

Hi Megapin have you signed on for the CNC heads series. There are a couple of us who have.

let me know

Regrads Mike.

PS sorry if i missed something, Do you need a diaganal that runs to within 100mm to the top and bottom of your rear loop. Also i think you need a Diaganol on your rear stays.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Megapin » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:45 am

Hi Mike,
No I'm doing NSSCC, but I think there are a couple of rounds which as the same as CNC heads.
Hoping to do the CSSCC modspsorts revival meeting and hopefully a mini series will spring out of that.
Will be racing the Elan this season but as and when the Stiletto gets finished I'm hoping to give that a race or two.
Davy
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Modsports Spaceframed Stiletto
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ChrisBenoy » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:10 pm

Some photos from Speeddemon:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Greetham » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:38 pm

now thats nice :o :o :o :D :D :D 8) 8) 8) 8) sweeeet love it lots nice job of that
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by chris » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:46 pm

Yep plain simple looking looks sweet! :P nice job :D
Wanted..... FREE STILETTO...... PM Me...........worth a try haha :)
My G15 page
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ImpManiac » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:39 pm

That is really lovely! :shock: Fantastic job! I would be very proud to turn up at a race meet with that on a trailer. :wink:

IM 8)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Swimpster » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:16 pm

It's an absolute credit to you Mike. Can't wait to see it (and hear it) in the flesh. Do you think you will be able to make the end of May race???

Cheers

Tim
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:29 pm

Thanks for putting the pics up chris and thanks to everyone for the positive compliments. Building from home no matter how big the garage is quite difficult and expensive. When i originally bought the car i didnt think there would be so much to do. Its now ready to race , but i need to do some more tests.

Im also hoping Andy Jones will race the car with me as he has done some great developement on the engine and only last night we were inspecting the gear box with positive results. Ive been very lucky having him put so much time and effort into the engine and gearbox and im sure once we do some tests it will be quick enough to compete within the championship we are going to compete in and also against the other guys in the HTS, Only time will tell :)

Would be great to see several more out, I know the stilletto davrian solo has had the full build so that may soon be out as well with Tony hansford at the wheel.

Thanks again

MIke

ps cars will be fully stickered in sponsorship so it wont be that plain soon hhahahhahah
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:20 pm

Yes well done mike she looks good

col
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by stuartbrownsey » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:48 pm

Just being sent this picture by a customer.
Brand new continuation spaceframe,
It hasn't turned a wheel yet, the build quality
and attention to detail are stunning.

Image
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ImpManiac » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:49 pm

^^ Oh mama! :P :P :P That is super-lovely! :P :P

Is somebody making these, then? Mike? Is this one of yours? I'm sure someone on here was gearing up to build these to order... :?

Fabulous!

IM 8)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:23 pm

Hey stuart nice pictures. I remember the car when pictures were being put up last year. Looks smart.

I think this car has new chassis based on a Mason but all fresh.

Now stuart whens it out , then we can see whos quikest :D
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by stuartbrownsey » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:50 pm

Mike

I'm not sure when the cars first outing is, but I think
it may compete in the intermarque championship at
Brands Hatch and could venture over to Ireland.

Its not my car Mike (wish it was!!) I've just been involved in making
alot of the parts. If I was driving it I expect you could lap quicker in
reverse :lol:

Stuart
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:11 pm

Yes i remember the earlier pics, its a man called Brian i think? looks smart as i said but i think i can beat him as i have a 300hp 998cc LOL.

Did he ever consider making any body panels

There are around 7 cars now ready to race,be great to pitch them all up against each other. But i have to let Jonsey have a bash im ex Autograss so there would be bothing left hahahahhahah :lol:
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:58 pm

Mike as far as i know Brian has the moulds for the car ,so with them and the rawlson moulds and im sure rob has most of the moulds for a maguire stiletto there is plenty of panels out there to be made but as you know not everyone wants to race a spaceframe imp ,more of the lads want to run in the historics ,so i dont think there is going to be many more new cars built

col
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by The Nun » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:44 pm

Dont know what it is but when I see bike engines with chain drives in cars I never feel comfortable in trusting it, chains are ok for a bike in my opinion but whenever they are put on anything else they are always seem to be a source of trouble and the first point of failure, now if the bike engine could be tied into a shaft drive somehow I might be persuaded otherwise.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Greetham » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:12 pm

if the bike engine could be tied into a shaft drive somehow I might be persuaded otherwise. its been done to death small ford prop and a 3.62 lsd from yes a ford lol check some of the rgb lads cars out this should help you out cheers paul :D
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:47 pm

No Bike engines in any of the above cars all imp powered. :D

We have spoken in the past with regards to bike power but to adress your thoughts about chains, they have no problem on the circuit . Its all about having everything in the correct place with the correct design.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by jch1imps » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:28 pm

hi speeddemon cracking job a credit to you.would it be possible to let me know when and where your are going to race it
many thanks james hall
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:00 pm

no probs will do, i think May
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