Spaceframe Imps

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speeddemon
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

Just a few lines, my build is almost there and were are just waiting on dynoing the motor with Shrigley Engineering. All the alloy work is now done and the body looks great on the chassis. Set of tyres and im almost there.

Will post some pics this weekend if possible.

Regards

Mike
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

Just been contacted by a new/old enthusiast of the Imp. It seems a a chap from down south who runs a motorsport business has purchased the only believed solo davrian stilleto. The car was in the Uk for quite a few years then went to Ireland. Pics are on here and its a well known car.

It was for sale on the forum some time back , however its on its way back to the uk for full inspection and rebuild.

The new owner has informed me that he will be racing in the cnc heads series which is hopefully being campiagned by quite a few of the imp members as well as HTS members.

Its starting to look good for this series and i hope to see about 5-10 cars competing :D :D

Its all good news.

Mike
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by spares »

The yellow Rawlson Stiletton with red wheels above was mine for a while. Believe raced by Nick Creswell, e.g. at Loton Park, but don't know any more. Ian Toon said he'd seen it racing and it was quite quick. As I didn't use it, I sold it. Soon after some idiot broke it and sold all the parts on e-Bay. Don't let this happen to any more! Fortunately I kept the Hartwell engine and box.

Its not actually a spaceframe, but a very pared-down Imp with glass fibre Rawlson panels and complete nose section. Was good to drive!
my_rawlson.jpg
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Mike Hanna »

Hi. The yellow imp in the previous post is I understand the one referred to as the "Custard Bullet". I bought the doors from it on Ebay, and collected them from a guy in Gloucester ; The body tub (floor/bulkhead) was sat on his drive. It was rusted well beyond repair. The doors had more paint than fibreglass! If I remember correctly he had a partially built space frame on his rear patio. Cheers Mike
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Swimpster »

Hi Bob
I remember that car very well. I knew Nick Cresswell and I bought a Wendy Walls Imp off him. I'm afraid I did nothing with it and sold it a couple of years later. Somewhere in my attic I have a couple of photos of it in Nick's garage in Oakamoor, Staffs, taken in about 1992. I'll have to dig them out and post them.

Cheers

Tim Swift
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Swimpster »

Of course, what I meant to say was Wendy WOOLS, but my Stoke accent got the better of me!!!!!!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by skamanfrank »

Found this on youtube:



Short but sweet
Cheers
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ganderson888 »

V Good Frank

i thought it was Teeside and was waiting to see FAF to come the other way and try & take off :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by skamanfrank »

Haha, have some more from the same:


and
Cheers
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by maguire imp »

Its def not a maguire imp
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

To very smart cars. Whys it not maquire?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Meltdown »

I've been scanning some old film photos and came across these. Enjoy :D
SF1.jpg
SF2.jpg
SF3.jpg
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by HARRY »

DRAM-.jpg
Ian Forrest & the Maguire Stiletto ex Tony Bridge Car & Harry Simpson Maguire Stiletto ex David Endeby's Car.
Picture taken at Knockhill Race Meeting about 1985. Both cars are identical 998 full race Andy Chessman engines and Jack Knight gearboxes
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by gunarone »

Megapin wrote:Space frame I am currently building.
Designed to run Hyabusa longitudinally in rear driving a Cosworth Diff.
Hoping to clad in Maguire Stiletto panels from Keith.

Image
Hello There,
Did you buy this from a guy called Mike Brace? as it was for sale end of last year September-October timeish. was built by some company in Suffolk I believe. certainly looks the part.
Best regards, George.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

isnt this mega pins chassis? guy up durhm way
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen »

Engine bay with no triangulation...and curved tube as structural chassis members? Upsetting a few of the basics of frame design, there. And why on Earth put the spring/damper units so high up? Center of gravity too low, maybe?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Duk »

F1 cars have the shocks in a similar position so cant be all bad!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Megapin »

Thanks for your chassis design insight doc knutson.! Wish I'd spoken to you before I designed any of my cars.
Davy

ps. hoop brace is removable and is not in place in ths photo.
Shockers mounted above the drive line allow ducted hot air to escape above the diffuser without creating
a bottle neck around the shocker. This means you can get the diffuser to sweep upwards above the lower wishbones
without being restricted by the shocker position. Most of the single seaters I have owned and worked on have shockers above the engine
position to benefit air flow. It also makes the shockers position more tunable by easily altering pushrod lengths
and angles without having to vary spring rates very much.
Rads are mounted in the two curved sidepods to the rear of the seats which also form the wheel arches.
Regarding engine bay triangulation have a look at the Z cars rear engine bay layout which is very similar
and seems to work quite well. Also the spaceframe is made from good quality seamless tube and I've never had a chassis
I built fall to bits or cause flexing problems. Engine is semi stressed solidly mounted to the main hoop and bracing as
it is in the bike. (which also has curved tubes !!!) The curved tube layout allows the Hyabusa dry sump pan to sit flat on the floor
without any diagonal restrictions.
I suppose the only way I will be able to prove my point will be to get the Stiletto finished and putting in some good race times !

pps. If you want to criticise my designs don't do it on here. I will be at the Mallory Park Modsports revival meeting hopefully with an entry
in my Elan, come and see me then. I will also be doing all of the NSSCC rounds this year and possibly some NW rounds and may even get
out with this car if I can get time to get it completed. Come and say hello !
Modsports Suzuki SC100,
Modsports Spaceframed Stiletto
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Meltdown »

/\/\Race bikes actually became too stiff in recent times so are generally engineered with a wee bit of flex. Coming up with your own chassis design has to be applauded, others will build them their own way and as everyone knows the BS stops when the flag drops. Have fun and go for it!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen »

[quote="Megapin"]Thanks for your chassis design insight doc knutson.! Wish I'd spoken to you before I designed any of my cars.
Davy

Sorry if I upset you. But when you decide to publish your design on a world-wide forum, you must expect to face some critics.

ps. hoop brace is removable and is not in place in ths photo.
Shockers mounted above the drive line allow ducted hot air to escape above the diffuser without creating
a bottle neck around the shocker. This means you can get the diffuser to sweep upwards above the lower wishbones
without being restricted by the shocker position.

I am perfectly aware of the aerodynamic reasons for putting the mass of the spring/damper assembly up in the air.
I just do not think the aero is sufficiently efficient on a low-powered special saloon, that it benefits from moving to a much
higher CoG.

Most of the single seaters I have owned and worked on have shockers above the engine
position to benefit air flow. It also makes the shockers position more tunable by easily altering pushrod lengths
and angles without having to vary spring rates very much.

Single seaters are designed to be much more aero dependant than racing cars that are limited by running a production car shaped body shell.
I simply think it is not worth the trouble, certainly not in my experience, for this kind of car. In special saloons at club level, the KISS princople applies
still.

Rads are mounted in the two curved sidepods to the rear of the seats which also form the wheel arches.
Regarding engine bay triangulation have a look at the Z cars rear engine bay layout which is very similar
and seems to work quite well. Also the spaceframe is made from good quality seamless tube and I've never had a chassis
I built fall to bits or cause flexing problems.

Chassis falling to bits is not the problem with lack of torsional stiffness. What you do, when designing a chassis without proper triangulation, is to introduce
a fifth spring on the car, that is, the frame itself. If you strive to optimize suspension geometry, or indeed underbody aerodynamics, you will waste a whole lot of it, if the chassis flexes.
Study the frame of a Mallock Clubmans car, for an example of lightweight, properly triangulated,extremely stiff multi-tubular frame. You do not see many modern high-
performance cars designed around a ladder-type frame - or a Cooper-type frame, come to that. There is are very good reasons for that.

Engine is semi stressed solidly mounted to the main hoop and bracing as
it is in the bike. (which also has curved tubes !!!) The curved tube layout allows the Hyabusa dry sump pan to sit flat on the floor
without any diagonal restrictions.

A curved tube will react by increasing its curvature if loaded in compression, and by trying to straighten itself if you load it in tension. It has no place in any high-performance
vehicle, let alone a racing car. It ranks right up there with suspension rod ends loaded in single shear, when it comes to engineering crimes against nature.

I suppose the only way I will be able to prove my point will be to get the Stiletto finished and putting in some good race times !

Just ponder how much quicker, and more predictable, it would be with a stable platform.

pps. If you want to criticise my designs don't do it on here.

See the first part of my reply.

I will be at the Mallory Park Modsports revival meeting hopefully with an entry
in my Elan, come and see me then.

Send me an air ticket for the UK, and I will :o)
Regards,
Doc Knutsen ( not -son, I am not Swedish)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Duk »

I wouldn't exactly say a hyabusa engine is low powered :lol:

Im not even pretending to know what Im talking about (apart from I've built my own) but have you actually built one yourself and successfully tested and raced it Doc?

Surely an ariel atom with its curved tube shouldnt work well then, or do you mean smaller sharp curves in general?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen »

Duk wrote:I wouldn't exactly say a hyabusa engine is low powered :lol:

Im not even pretending to know what Im talking about (apart from I've built my own) but have you actually built one yourself and successfully tested and raced it Doc?

Surely an ariel atom with its curved tube shouldnt work well then, or do you mean smaller sharp curves in general?
The cars that I have designed and built have had more than 500BHP in fairly light chassis (sub-700kg for the C2 car, and even less for the BOSS car that was based on a Reynard F3000 monocoque.) The enginesthat my cars have run, include such as a 2-liter BDG, a Hart 420R and different versions of the BDT turbocharged Ford engine that were originally developed for the RS200 Gr B rally cars.

My C2 car has won international races (Interserie) and set lap records. Various other cars have run well in Scandinavia, since 1976. If you want to read more, check out my son Matt's web site, www.shag.no

If the Ariel Atom ran against a properly designed racing car, i believe it would not work particularly well. It is light, it has fair power and a fair amount of rubber on the ground. It is a track day car, I believe.
Oh, and incidentallly,how do you rate its aerodynamics? About on par with its chassis design, I would say...:o)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Duk »

Interesting stuff Doc, will have a look through that site :) I didnt mean to sound like you didnt know what you were talking about if it came across that way Im just happy to learn!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Greetham »

megapin it looks very nice mate like it lots good luck on your build will be nice to see it done at some point all the best paul 8)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by doc knutsen »

Duk wrote:Interesting stuff Doc, will have a look through that site :) I didnt mean to sound like you didnt know what you were talking about if it came across that way Im just happy to learn!
Ash
No offence taken, I am too old for that. :D
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Megapin »

Apologies Doc for the name error.
We'll just have to see how it competes against other spaceframed cars when it gets out on the track.
Thanks for the positive feedback Paul.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

Hi Megapin have you signed on for the CNC heads series. There are a couple of us who have.

let me know

Regrads Mike.

PS sorry if i missed something, Do you need a diaganal that runs to within 100mm to the top and bottom of your rear loop. Also i think you need a Diaganol on your rear stays.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Megapin »

Hi Mike,
No I'm doing NSSCC, but I think there are a couple of rounds which as the same as CNC heads.
Hoping to do the CSSCC modspsorts revival meeting and hopefully a mini series will spring out of that.
Will be racing the Elan this season but as and when the Stiletto gets finished I'm hoping to give that a race or two.
Davy
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ChrisBenoy »

Some photos from Speeddemon:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Greetham »

now thats nice :o :o :o :D :D :D 8) 8) 8) 8) sweeeet love it lots nice job of that
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by chris »

Yep plain simple looking looks sweet! :P nice job :D
Wanted..... FREE STILETTO...... PM Me...........worth a try haha :)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ImpManiac »

That is really lovely! :shock: Fantastic job! I would be very proud to turn up at a race meet with that on a trailer. :wink:

IM 8)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Swimpster »

It's an absolute credit to you Mike. Can't wait to see it (and hear it) in the flesh. Do you think you will be able to make the end of May race???

Cheers

Tim
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

Thanks for putting the pics up chris and thanks to everyone for the positive compliments. Building from home no matter how big the garage is quite difficult and expensive. When i originally bought the car i didnt think there would be so much to do. Its now ready to race , but i need to do some more tests.

Im also hoping Andy Jones will race the car with me as he has done some great developement on the engine and only last night we were inspecting the gear box with positive results. Ive been very lucky having him put so much time and effort into the engine and gearbox and im sure once we do some tests it will be quick enough to compete within the championship we are going to compete in and also against the other guys in the HTS, Only time will tell :)

Would be great to see several more out, I know the stilletto davrian solo has had the full build so that may soon be out as well with Tony hansford at the wheel.

Thanks again

MIke

ps cars will be fully stickered in sponsorship so it wont be that plain soon hhahahhahah
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney »

Yes well done mike she looks good

col
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by stuartbrownsey »

Just being sent this picture by a customer.
Brand new continuation spaceframe,
It hasn't turned a wheel yet, the build quality
and attention to detail are stunning.

Image
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ImpManiac »

^^ Oh mama! :P :P :P That is super-lovely! :P :P

Is somebody making these, then? Mike? Is this one of yours? I'm sure someone on here was gearing up to build these to order... :?

Fabulous!

IM 8)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

Hey stuart nice pictures. I remember the car when pictures were being put up last year. Looks smart.

I think this car has new chassis based on a Mason but all fresh.

Now stuart whens it out , then we can see whos quikest :D
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by stuartbrownsey »

Mike

I'm not sure when the cars first outing is, but I think
it may compete in the intermarque championship at
Brands Hatch and could venture over to Ireland.

Its not my car Mike (wish it was!!) I've just been involved in making
alot of the parts. If I was driving it I expect you could lap quicker in
reverse :lol:

Stuart
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

Yes i remember the earlier pics, its a man called Brian i think? looks smart as i said but i think i can beat him as i have a 300hp 998cc LOL.

Did he ever consider making any body panels

There are around 7 cars now ready to race,be great to pitch them all up against each other. But i have to let Jonsey have a bash im ex Autograss so there would be bothing left hahahahhahah :lol:
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney »

Mike as far as i know Brian has the moulds for the car ,so with them and the rawlson moulds and im sure rob has most of the moulds for a maguire stiletto there is plenty of panels out there to be made but as you know not everyone wants to race a spaceframe imp ,more of the lads want to run in the historics ,so i dont think there is going to be many more new cars built

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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by The Nun »

Dont know what it is but when I see bike engines with chain drives in cars I never feel comfortable in trusting it, chains are ok for a bike in my opinion but whenever they are put on anything else they are always seem to be a source of trouble and the first point of failure, now if the bike engine could be tied into a shaft drive somehow I might be persuaded otherwise.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Greetham »

if the bike engine could be tied into a shaft drive somehow I might be persuaded otherwise. its been done to death small ford prop and a 3.62 lsd from yes a ford lol check some of the rgb lads cars out this should help you out cheers paul :D
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

No Bike engines in any of the above cars all imp powered. :D

We have spoken in the past with regards to bike power but to adress your thoughts about chains, they have no problem on the circuit . Its all about having everything in the correct place with the correct design.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

no probs will do, i think May
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by knocker »

stuartbrownsey wrote:Just being sent this picture by a customer.
Brand new continuation spaceframe,
It hasn't turned a wheel yet, the build quality
and attention to detail are stunning.

Image
This stunning example will be out on the 15th of May at Lydden as well as my Stiletto so anyone else looking to fill the grid up. Maguire Mini, Maguire Metro etc
www.semsec.org.uk

Regards

Rob.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Meltdown »

Looks better here than the 'new Imp' thread, which IMHO the front resembles a Merc.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

Just got this email from these people, so if all goes well me and Mr Jones will attend, sounds real good carnt wait.

Dear Modsports, Special Saloons, Thundersaloons Competitor,



The Classic Sports Car Club are delighted to advise we have secured the backing of Mallory Park and Vauxhall for a combined Modsports, Special Saloons, Thundersaloons Revival race on the Monday, August 29th which is open to members of the Classic Sports Car Club. For those that are not yet members of the CSCC a membership application form is enclosed; cost of membership is £35 per year and this annual membership fee will be the only cost to you for this revival race.



The race is intended to be a 20 minute Sprint & will be the first race of the day so it is likely to be held at about 1.30pm. There will be parade laps beforehand for those who have cars that are unable to race but still want to drive a lap or two, as well as a static display area for those with cars that are non-runners.



As a first step to establishing the content of the grid we will be holding a test session and press day at Mallory on the morning of 29th June from 9.30 to 12.30 to which you are invited. If you use the attached form and register with the Club for this test session, the club will pay for it. You must register first, we cannot pay for you on the day. Preference for the entries for the race on 29th August will be given to those that attend the Press/ Test Day & it is unlikely that anyone not attending the test will be selected for the final grid as we have so far about 40 or so potential entrants and only 20 grid slots. Attendance at the Press Day is very important to the CSCC in order to help rebuild interest in the category, build even further interest in the club and to help develop spectator interest for the day.



We expect several members of the national as well as specialist press and Vauxhall PR to be in attendance for the test session so please try to also set aside the lunchtime slot, which Mallory will make available for some passenger laps for members of the press and the Vauxhall PR team, and the early afternoon for photo calls and the like in the paddock area at the end of the test. If you are able to equip your car to carry out passenger laps and are willing to do so, please let us know on the attached form.



We are still planning on making this a free event for you so Classic Sports Car Club will not be charging for the test or the race. Those who want just parade laps or static display will also not have to pay any entry fee if they apply to the club first.



Please fill out the attached entry form for the test day so we have an idea of who will attend and give the press some prior warning of what to expect.


We must stress that all cars will be subject to MSA scrutineering and a noise check at 105db on both the test and the race day.



It remains the fervent hope of the CSCC that this revival race will lead to a new race series for 2012 & onwards for these sorts of cars. If you would be interested in a regular series of races each year going forward, say approximately 6 x 20 minute races per season then we'd be grateful if you could also indicate your interest on the attached form.
speeddemon
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:44 pm
Club Member: No
Car Model: None

Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

whos building the spaceframes?
speeddemon
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:44 pm
Club Member: No
Car Model: None

Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon »

Hi if you read the thread im very much into the spaceframes and i dont want to put a damper on this one bit . Ive just gone through the full scenario of rebuilding a spaceframe. \its mint now.

Unfortunatley most that are out there are illegal and need thousands on bringing them upto spec. mine rebuild was in excess of £7000 not including engine and box.

i just dont see who would take on the project or should we say part with money to have one built.

I really hope it works though be god to see them out .

good luck

mike :D
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