Spaceframe Imps

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Imps and Imp based Motorsport stuff from the olden days and current
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Megapin
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Megapin » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:00 am

Think you will find the race weight of Maguire's between 400-440kg depending on spec.
Keith Scott or Harry will be able to tell you closer.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Ed » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:42 pm

I was given a figure of between 350 and 400kg for a maguire before. With all weights you they need to be taken with a pinch of salt! Although considering how little metal is in a maguire I would be thinking of around the 400kg mark. Compare one to a lightweigh 7 and that should put you in the ball park.

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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by knocker » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:39 pm

430kg with a full tank.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Meltdown » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:48 pm

As an aside, a BS Nymph weighs in at 420kg dry.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by belgimper_jac » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:17 pm

Hi,

Space frame MAGUIRE at MARCHIN,BELGIUM (historic hill climb,Sat.10 july 2010.)

Image

Well-know Belgian Impdriver Heinz Pfeiffer...very fast.

Image

Hot summer day: 35°C.After the race,...to hot inside .
Anyone knows how many Maguires (like this) are still alive in U.K.?

Cheers,Jac.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ImpManiac » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:08 pm

That's stunning! :o Got any more photos? Could you email me some, please?

I cannot answer your question, though. Sorry. :(

IM 8)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by belgimper_jac » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:28 pm

Thank you for the answer Paul,

The Blue Maguire: some photos from Belgian events :wink:
2009 Tros-Marets Historic hill-Climb

Image

Image

2010 Ciney Retromoteur

Image

Image

Image

2010 Marchin Hill-Climb

Image


Image

Image

Cheers,Jac.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:39 pm

Thats a very nice car and well prepped. One of the best surviving mquires around. most of the ones left seem to be either bashed bent or scrap.

Thats a small sump. :)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by knocker » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:19 pm

knocker wrote:
big J wrote:Robert,would you ever had a chance to compare the prototype Davrian saloon to a later car?Just curious if the design changed,there seems to have been a considerable time between this and the Homewood/Hall car being commisioned.
Who's Heinz?
Heinz is a chap from Belgium met him a National day at Paddock Wood had a blue race G15 a Rawlson and a Davrian imp looks like the car on page 11 number 125 also showed be a picture he had of a Maguire stiletto he had just bought to restore.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ImpManiac » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:45 pm

Jac,

Thank you! Fantastic pictures! :D You just made my day!

What is the alloy tank that is attached to the engine? A breather tank?

IM 8)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:25 am

Paul I was gonna ask the same Q!

Looks like a catch tank directly attached to the cam cover...would cut out a lot of unnecessary pipe work.

Smart thinking!
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:56 am

No...looked again and I can see the normal filler neck is present with a large diameter black pipe attached.....catch tank close by probably attached to the engine mounting frame above?

Talking about large v small sumps. My thinking is there is no justification for fitting a large sump to a race car.

reasoning to fit or not fit a large sump IMHO are:
  • * high oil consumption on long events - not likely on a properly built engine in good condition - might be an advantage for a long distance (marathon) rally car

    * poor oil return to the sump at high revs needing a larger reserve - not needed --you just design a better sump baffle/windage plate with better oil return. Again, efficient oil return to the sump is a key factor in minimising oil frothing too (although admitedly a large sump would help reduce the effect of frothing)

    * better oil cooling reserve - faulty logic, as at sustained high revs in a racing machine the hottest oil is sump oil superheated by pistons and cylinders etc. Best to design a more efficient oil cooling system - like an oil water heat exchanger.

    * prevents oil surge/stavation at pick-up - again faulty logic, as the smaller sump stops a lot of oil surge under braking and you can stop lateral surge by a good baffle design in a small sump.
And what racer would chose to carry all that unnecessary excess weight of oil and sump metal work?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by benwick3 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:00 am

Peter,

A racer who wants to preserve his engine. If you look closely at the sump on Heinz's car you will see that it is an enlarged sump with an extension on the bottom of the existing standard sump. The same as fitted to my Clan pre conversion to dry sump. Interestingly I think this is the first time I've seen this modification on one of his cars. It's the same as fitted to the engines I supplied to Michel Chapel for his Clan which he is using with some success in the French Maxi Mille series.

Why not come and prove your theories on the track. How do you think your small sump engine with water/oil cooler would have stood up for 30 minutes at full revs in temperatures of 38 - 42 degrees as I had at Zolder at the weekend?

Pete Richards
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:27 am

at some stage the front has also undegone change , looks like a grille has been put in place, wouldnt mind having blast against it. I have asked big J to put some pics of my car up , they will be on tonight or tomoz, :)
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by belgimper_jac » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:15 pm

Thanks a lot guys,

alloy tank?...small sump?...sorry :cry: ,i have no engine pics and no answer,but hopefully Heinz will be next month at Brigwater-National 2010. :wink:
He is a Imp Club Member but not on the forum.

Cheers,jac.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Lotus-e-Clan » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:31 pm

Pete you are so competitive! :wink: No one would doubt your own extensive experience.

However, there is nothing I've said that I wouldn't stand by after reading your post and there is more than one way to skin a cat.

The sump in the picture is a std small conformation that is deeper. Someone commented with surprise about it not being a large sump and I assumed that person was referring to the larger long sump conformation that only cover up problems elsewhere such as inadequate oil cooling and less than clever sump baffling.

I have one of the long sumps which a lot of people use and I have no use for it so if anyone wants it they can have it for free. It is a fairly common, but bad, design with holes in the partition that will trap oil under braking...Eric IIRC, came to the same conclusion about these sumps too after he suffered oil surge under braking.

So not just my theory that the smaller sump is better in this respect.

As to proving my oil cooling system works at sustained high revs ..I've done that on the road to a degree, easy to do with a 12 mph top gear, but obviously not under exactly under the same conditions you describe at Zolder.

And as to why not come racing.... that might have happened before now but life got in the way (eg sons' cancer during 2008/9) plus I had a long wait for new pistons as you know.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by belgimper_jac » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:46 pm

knocker wrote:
knocker wrote:
big J wrote:Robert,would you ever had a chance to compare the prototype Davrian saloon to a later car?Just curious if the design changed,there seems to have been a considerable time between this and the Homewood/Hall car being commisioned.
Who's Heinz?
Heinz is a chap from Belgium met him a National day at Paddock Wood had a blue race G15 a Rawlson and a Davrian imp looks like the car on page 11 number 125 also showed be a picture he had of a Maguire stiletto he had just bought to restore.

Hi,

Francorchamps 2004. Heinz Pfeiffer Davrian-Imp.

Image
Image
Image
Number 125 and number 240...same colour,same eyes, same front-spoiler,same wheels....same car of course


Cheers,Jac. :wink:
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by big J » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:34 pm

Some new pics from Mike,some fairly heavy duty rebuild work going on
Image
Image
Image
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:42 pm

Thanks big J, yes im on with the build, quite time consuming, As said chassis have been blasted and repaired as needed, Chopped the old pedal box off cos it was modified from a centre seat position. Then of course the dreaded RIVET HOLES :x But they had to be done as im putting the panel work inside the sections.so i can remove them for access.

This is my Fibre glass man, hes my neighbour and buddy and giving me a hand and showing me the job. we have repaneled the lower side sections and if you look in the garage with the car inside upside down we have now removed thefront panel made a new section and lip to take a splitter, which will be made from lite timber and be removabale. Should do the job.

I will have some more pics tomoz

I also have a stiletto shell now so im going to mould the roof and other panels asap
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by benwick3 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:32 pm

Peter,

You misunderstood what I said or I did not make it clear. Heinz's sump is a standard sump with an extension to the bottom and consequently it could be described as enlarged as it contains more oil than a standard sump. It is the same design I used pre dry sump, and would use if I was restricted to a wet sump by regulations. I adopted the deeper sump after discussion with Ian Carter some years before he died. I agree completely about the long enlarged sump.

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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:37 pm

Mike your a brave man i know my car has not got a lot of steel in her and most of the spaceframe car i have looked at dont but with all them holes im sure it has taken a lot of the strenght out of the box section ,you want to check the frame for hair line cracks

col

Post edited by GA to remove duplicated photos
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Meltdown » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:03 pm

Holes are a good idea as they lessen the chance of twisting and reduce weight, but Colin's right in what he says as they do look a bit big for the box section size.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by colin rooney » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:15 pm

Well having worked on structural steel years ago when you wanted to pass pipe work through an rsj we were always told to put a diamond shape as the points would stop the stress and i know im on about heavy steel but i would think the same rule for box section ,but if it has lasted this long it must be ok ,but dk it as you have it all apart


col
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Meltdown » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:50 pm

as the points would stop the stress
That's odd. I'm not doubting you, Colin, but I was under the impression that to stop a crack you should drill the end...making a circle to stop the stress.

Any material engineers out there?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Hey guys dont be worrying about my car as im certainly not :D you start worrying about being on the track come early next year :lol: Hopefully we will all be there having a blast against each other hahahahahah.

Chassis have had some bars removed as they were doing nothing and some put in for extra strength, car was centre seated at some point. But its not far from the powder coaters now. Just waiting to mount the seat and realign the steering and then mostly done.

We are also making a brand new tube chassis for the stiletto so that will start later this year and also doing the moulds similer to the mquire, but they will be my design.

Ive just done the front lower section with lip to take a fabricated splitter

Thanks for your interest.
GJBM

Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by GJBM » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:54 pm

I am looking for a rear fibreglass boot, with or without spoiler, for the spaceframe Imp I am rebuilding.

I am unsure how to post a photo, but can be contacted on millsg@eoson.co.za

Best


Greg Mills

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\millsg.EOS\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\IMP%20July%202010[/img]
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by Ed » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:24 pm

Having a bit of a clear out, and decided to finally get rid of the mould I have for making one piece spaceframe Imp front ends. I've put it in the for sale section but thought this might be a good place to put it as well! Photo below, price £200ovno. :)
Image
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by big J » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:35 pm

I'm gonna duplicate the pics Lee from spaceframecars sent me.He's assisting with a rebuild of George Gunns Stiletto,a damn nice car.

Post edited by GA - As all the photo's that were originally posted here have been duplicated in another thread they have been removed. They can be found here;
http://www.theimpclub.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 69#p138469
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by big J » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:39 pm

Post edited by GA - As all the photo's that were originally posted here have been duplicated in another thread they have been removed. They can be found here;
http://www.theimpclub.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 69#p138469
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by speeddemon » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:30 am

Always a tough job trying to remount a different motor, but looks like you are getting there. Good luck Lee
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by leeboy44 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:12 am

thanks for the up loads big j :)

we are there or there abouts on the car now just finishing the exhaust and change the clutch ready for george to take back to sunny scotland

i think george is hoping to have this car out asap and i'm really looking forward to seeing the results jedi have made a real gem here its so light but very strong
ive asked george if i can measure the chassis to make a similar 1 myself and he is very happy for me to do so

more photos will be on the way very soon with a big thanks to big j

or for a full range of photos please vist www.spaceframecars.co.uk

lee
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by big J » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:53 pm

No worries Lee,glad to help. :D
It's a fine machine,looks like you're doing some nice work there.

John
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by leeboy44 » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:42 pm

hi jon i have loads of photos for you to put up !! i will add them to my website tomorrow and let you know so you can pick the best 1's (if you tell me how you did it i will have a go ?)
geroge is extremely happy with the car!! it was finished today at 1o'clock ready for the 12 odd our drive :(

soon as its been wired me and my brother will fly up for geroge's first test day in about 5 weeks ish

thanks lee
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ganderson888 » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:37 pm

leeboy44 wrote:hi jon i have loads of photos for you to put up !! i will add them to my website tomorrow
thanks lee
Not wishing to diminish what your doing with this superb car but could I ask that you post just 4 more photo's to whet our appetite please and then include a direct link to the page of the website where they're all published.

Thanks in advance,
Graham Anderson
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by big J » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:54 am

Is there a problem with the pictures Graham?I'm using photobucket to host them,thought that'd be ok?
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by leeboy44 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:25 am

the photos on here are fine just that i cant seem to sort it :evil:

the new photos are up on the website now the link is : http://www.spaceframecars.co.uk/work-on ... i-imp.html

hope you like

lee
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ganderson888 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:04 am

Hosting photo's via photobucket is the preferred method to link photo's to a thread, however the high number posted in those two posts has caused difficulty with loading for some readers.

Additionally if someone replies to either post but doesn't remove the image codes they would all be repeated thus exacerbating the loading problem. This then causes more work for us Moderators as would need to edit each of these posts.

Personally I also found a lot of the pictures interesting but have to say some looked very similar if not duplicated, and I couldn't easily differentiate between some of the close ups as there are no captions. They way that have been uploaded on to the website is perfect as the captions help the viewer understand what he photo is about.

Hope that explains the reasons behind my previous post.
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by big J » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:17 pm

No worries Graham,I'll keep the number of pics per post down and edit them as best as I can.
I saw that a lot of the pics were similar all right,but I reckoned it was better to submit as much info as possible in case there were lads considering building something similar.I reckoned the more pictorial info the better.
Would say,5 pics per post work better?

John
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by ganderson888 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:43 pm

big J wrote:No worries Graham,I'll keep the number of pics per post down and edit them as best as I can.
John
John,
It would also be appreicated if photos are not duplicated across threads.
Providing a link from one to the other is quite sufficient which is what I've now done to your earlier posts in this thread.
Graham Anderson
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Re: Spaceframe Imps

Post by niall mcginnis » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:16 pm

leeboy44 wrote:the photos on here are fine just that i cant seem to sort it :evil:

the new photos are up on the website now the link is : http://www.spaceframecars.co.uk/work-on ... i-imp.html

hope you like

lee
top work Lee.
love it!
niall
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